NW planning to use A330s trans-pacific

[Not the Karl Orff]

Richard Anderson, the head of NW Airlines stated the airline will
eventually retire its 747-200 fleet and replace these a/c with A330s on
its trans-Pacific service.

I think NW would be the first airline ever to use A330s for scheduled
trans-Pacific service.

[Twin Gonads]

Not the Karl Orff wrote:
> Richard Anderson, the head of NW Airlines stated the airline will
> eventually retire its 747-200 fleet and replace these a/c with A330s on
> its trans-Pacific service.

Northwest's trans-pac is mostly limited to flights to Japan, not exactly
extra-long range.

> I think NW would be the first airline ever to use A330s for scheduled
> trans-Pacific service.

Canada 3000 used them to serve Hawaii, Fiji and Australia (and any islands in
between, depending on winds). Towards the end, it was akin to scheduled service.

[Not the Karl Orff]

In article >, Twin Gonads >
wrote:

> Not the Karl Orff wrote:
> > Richard Anderson, the head of NW Airlines stated the airline will
> > eventually retire its 747-200 fleet and replace these a/c with A330s on
> > its trans-Pacific service.
>
> Northwest's trans-pac is mostly limited to flights to Japan, not exactly
> extra-long range.

No, but still the 1st regular A330 non-stop trans-pacific scheduled
service (well, then again ANC-eastern Siberia across the Bering would
count by that definition)?

> > I think NW would be the first airline ever to use A330s for scheduled
> > trans-Pacific service.
>
> Canada 3000 used them to serve Hawaii, Fiji and Australia (and any islands in
> between, depending on winds). Towards the end, it was akin to scheduled
> service.

Not trans-pacific (as in cross) per se since the 2T flights stopped in
HNL first (otherwise TS would have been one of the first and CX and
whoever else operates A330 around the rim) and, as you said, NAN,
Raratonga and/or some others before getting to Australia. 2T did
operate 757s on that trans-Pacific route too.

[Not the Karl Orff]

In article >,
Ian > wrote:

> I suspect they'll be used more within Asia, as they have a modern
> fleet of 744's covering much of their Tokyo flights.

Don;t think NW will leave the 330s for intra-Asia flights like the A320s
and 757s are currently (due to traffic declines). They'll probably be
used on the thinner U.S.-NRT routes or maybe supplement BKK-NRT (always
oversold with a 744, it seems).

[Blake S]

"Not the Karl Orff" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Ian > wrote:
>
> > I suspect they'll be used more within Asia, as they have a modern
> > fleet of 744's covering much of their Tokyo flights.
>
> Don;t think NW will leave the 330s for intra-Asia flights like the A320s
> and 757s are currently (due to traffic declines). They'll probably be
> used on the thinner U.S.-NRT routes or maybe supplement BKK-NRT (always
> oversold with a 744, it seems)

Yeah, like the trans-pacific routes that NW is flying the 742's right now,
such as HNL-NRT & SEA-NRT. Which brings us back to the original point.

[Not the Karl Orff]

In article t>,
"Blake S" > wrote:

> "Not the Karl Orff" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > Ian > wrote:
> >
> > > I suspect they'll be used more within Asia, as they have a modern
> > > fleet of 744's covering much of their Tokyo flights.
> >
> > Don;t think NW will leave the 330s for intra-Asia flights like the A320s
> > and 757s are currently (due to traffic declines). They'll probably be
> > used on the thinner U.S.-NRT routes or maybe supplement BKK-NRT (always
> > oversold with a 744, it seems)
>
> Yeah, like the trans-pacific routes that NW is flying the 742's right now,
> such as HNL-NRT & SEA-NRT. Which brings us back to the original point.

NW also flies SEA-NRT and v-v n/s with a normally-configured 742 (low
density). The HNL-NRT flights are usually on 742s configured for "beach
market" and are high density (smaller BC). SEA-HNL last time I checked
was operated by DC-10s.

[Flapping Labias]

Ian wrote:
>
> I suspect they'll be used more within Asia, as they have a modern
> fleet of 744's covering much of their Tokyo flights.

Doesn't the 330 have the range to do Detroit-Tokyo ? If so, NW could put its
330s to Tokyo.

How many 744s does NW have ?
How many 742 are still in use by NW ?

[Christopher]

My daughter travelled on a 'modern' NW 747-200 !!


"Ian" > wrote in message
...
> I suspect they'll be used more within Asia, as they have a modern
> fleet of 744's covering much of their Tokyo flights.
>
>
> On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:31:51 GMT, Not the Karl Orff >
> wrote:
>
> >In article >, Twin Gonads >
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Not the Karl Orff wrote:
> >> > Richard Anderson, the head of NW Airlines stated the airline will
> >> > eventually retire its 747-200 fleet and replace these a/c with A330s
on
> >> > its trans-Pacific service.
> >>
> >> Northwest's trans-pac is mostly limited to flights to Japan, not
exactly
> >> extra-long range.
> >
> >No, but still the 1st regular A330 non-stop trans-pacific scheduled
> >service (well, then again ANC-eastern Siberia across the Bering would
> >count by that definition)?
> >
> >> > I think NW would be the first airline ever to use A330s for scheduled
> >> > trans-Pacific service.
> >>
> >> Canada 3000 used them to serve Hawaii, Fiji and Australia (and any
islands in
> >> between, depending on winds). Towards the end, it was akin to scheduled
> >> service.
> >
> >Not trans-pacific (as in cross) per se since the 2T flights stopped in
> >HNL first (otherwise TS would have been one of the first and CX and
> >whoever else operates A330 around the rim) and, as you said, NAN,
> >Raratonga and/or some others before getting to Australia. 2T did
> >operate 757s on that trans-Pacific route too.
>

[scott]

On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 00:35:59 -0400, Flapping Labias
> wrote:

>Ian wrote:
>>
>> I suspect they'll be used more within Asia, as they have a modern
>> fleet of 744's covering much of their Tokyo flights.
>
>Doesn't the 330 have the range to do Detroit-Tokyo ? If so, NW could put its
>330s to Tokyo.
>
>How many 744s does NW have ?

IIRC, 14.

>How many 742 are still in use by NW ?

A lot of them.

[Not the Karl Orff]

In article >,
scott > wrote:

> On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 00:35:59 -0400, Flapping Labias
> > wrote:
>
> >Ian wrote:
> >>
> >> I suspect they'll be used more within Asia, as they have a modern
> >> fleet of 744's covering much of their Tokyo flights.
> >
> >Doesn't the 330 have the range to do Detroit-Tokyo ? If so, NW could put its
> >330s to Tokyo.
> >
> >How many 744s does NW have ?
>
> IIRC, 14.
>
> >How many 742 are still in use by NW ?
>
> A lot of them.

Starting to decline. A similar number to 744s now? NW used to have
fleet size on its old website but seems ot have eliminated it witht he
revamp of a month ago.

[Engorged nipples]

scott wrote:
> >How many 744s does NW have ?
> IIRC, 14.
> >How many 742 are still in use by NW ?
> A lot of them.


742 have a range of 12,700km, the 330-200 has 12,300km.
DTW-NRT is 10,296km well within the 330's range.

I suspect that operating a 330 is a hell of a lot cheaper than an old 742 and
DC-10 (fewer pilots, much less fuel burn, and probably lower airport costs).

But the 330 carries only 253 pax versus 366 for 742 (3 class configs) and I
suspect its cargo capacity is also much less than that of old 742s.

Is the current load factor on 742 such that NW can substitute 742 flights one
for one with 330s ? Or will there be a few cases where one 742 flights will be
replaced with 2 330s flights ?

If/when the airline industry picks up, it will be interesting to see if NW
handles growth by adding 744s or just buying more 330s and increasing frequencies.

[Jaybee727]

Maybe to to use theA330's but not to retire the 747's.

CO did that years ago when they became to expensive to maintain. Not very fuel
efficient either. Unfortunately the 747 seems to be the status symbol aircraft
for many US and most major foreign airlines.

The oldest 747's are now in their 3rd decade or more and starting to show their
age.

Jerry in LAS

[Not the Karl Orff]

In article >,
(Jaybee727) wrote:

> Maybe to to use theA330's but not to retire the 747's.

744s no, 742s yes

> CO did that years ago when they became to expensive to maintain. Not very
> fuel
> efficient either. Unfortunately the 747 seems to be the status symbol
> aircraft
> for many US and most major foreign airlines.
>
> The oldest 747's are now in their 3rd decade or more and starting to show
> their
> age.

Don't think man of NW's 742s are that old. Some of the 744s are the
oldest out there (NW was launch customer)