The Plot Thickens.....Re: They called me again....

[Jeff Coudriet]

Cal--I think you're right. This isn't (for me at least) a pro-Carnival
or con-Carnival thing. In fact, we are thinking about sailing on the
Carnival Legend in January (4 sea days!). For me it's just an
interesting observation of a business practice.

But the plot thickens....last night Carnival called me for the third
time! This time they left a voice mail message indicating they wanted
to help me with the southern caribbean cruise I had been looking at.
However, I didn't in any way indicate (ie, put a hole, or ask for a
quote, etc.) on that type of cruise, but clearly they are TRACKING MY
ONLINE MOVEMENTS ON THEIR WEBSITE. Sorry for the "shouting" but I
wanted to highlight that. They obviously have very good software and
were able to track my movements on their site. A little creepy I think.

Jeff





Cal Ford wrote:
>
> Yes, it was reported in the trade press a few months back that a former Ren
> marketing guy was in charge of setting up Carnivals direct booking effort.
>
> Heard a report last night at a trade show that Carnival has more than 200
> telephone operators doing nothing but cold calls trying to drum up business.
>
> Has nothing to do with whether or not someone likes or dislikes Carnival. It is
> a fact of business as perceived by Carnival senior management. Nothing more and
> nothing less.
>
> Cal Ford
> Lido Deck Cruises

[E.k.R.]

Funny, I've sailed on 8 Carnival Cruises including one in July, have ordered
brochures on numerous occasions and always provided my phone number, and yet
I've never heard a peep from them. I guess they figure they already have me
as a customer?

Now just yesterday I did received a call from a "Personal Cruise Consultant"
at Cunard Line. I recently ordered a brochure on their website, which the
caller mentioned in his message, and that he wanted to help me with any
plans I was considering.

This strategy is obviously being used on more than one Carnival brand.
Travel Agents beware, you are being replaced by a more aggressive strategy.

Ernie - who's already booked on Cunard in May, on the new QM2.




"Jeff Coudriet" > wrote in message
...
> Cal--I think you're right. This isn't (for me at least) a pro-Carnival
> or con-Carnival thing. In fact, we are thinking about sailing on the
> Carnival Legend in January (4 sea days!). For me it's just an
> interesting observation of a business practice.
>
> But the plot thickens....last night Carnival called me for the third
> time! This time they left a voice mail message indicating they wanted
> to help me with the southern caribbean cruise I had been looking at.
> However, I didn't in any way indicate (ie, put a hole, or ask for a
> quote, etc.) on that type of cruise, but clearly they are TRACKING MY
> ONLINE MOVEMENTS ON THEIR WEBSITE. Sorry for the "shouting" but I
> wanted to highlight that. They obviously have very good software and
> were able to track my movements on their site. A little creepy I think.
>
> Jeff
>

[Da Parrot-chick]

"Jeff Coudriet" > wrote in message
...

> But the plot thickens....last night Carnival called me for the third
> time! This time they left a voice mail message indicating they wanted
> to help me with the southern caribbean cruise I had been looking at.
> However, I didn't in any way indicate (ie, put a hole, or ask for a
> quote, etc.) on that type of cruise, but clearly they are TRACKING MY
> ONLINE MOVEMENTS ON THEIR WEBSITE. Sorry for the "shouting" but I
> wanted to highlight that. They obviously have very good software and
> were able to track my movements on their site. A little creepy I think.

It is creepy, and it's also legal, or at least not illegal. Jeff, there's a
freeware program called Spybot Search & Destroy that you can download to
eliminate these type cookies from your hard drive. I run it a couple of
times a week and am astounded by all the stuff it catches. It's actually
shareware but they just ask for a donation to keep it available.

I don't have the URL bookmarked but a Google search will probably turn it
up.

[EileenMcDonald]

<< But the plot thickens....last night Carnival called me for the third
time! >>

Carnival also called me, last week. Like you, I had registered at the site,
giving my real name and phone #.
I picked up the call... I was really, really surprised. The res. agent tried
to make it sound as if I had asked for a call....I didn't.
Anyway, I listened...(and she also knew what itinerary I was looking at on
the website)...It was funny... you could, almost, hear her looking
through the sales play book, you know.... an official comeback responce to
ANYTHING I had to say. She was very aggressive, and in my opinion, not very
truthful. A really, heavy, sales push. And the prices she was offering were
NOT great, at all. In fact, I was astounded by how high the prices were.
I was looking at the website to try and get an idea of which Spirit class
ships, go where. We were thinking of taking 2 of DH'S kids and the 3
grandkids. The kids would be willing to take the cheapest, possible room
that holds 5. It's the only way we could afford to take them. I've seen some
really good prices with Carnival on the S.C. ships and have no doubt, that
I'll see them again. No matter WHAT the res. agent claims! I came right out
and told her that I was not the least impressed with the prices she was
offering...haven't heard from her since.
Carnival is not the only line doing this...about a month ago, at the RCL
website I was casually looking around, decided to do one of those My Cruise
Folder? (I think, it's called). Anyway, 2 days later RCL called me, claimed,
at first, to be a customer service feedback call, ya know, asking if I found
the site easy to use, etc. Then he asked if I wanted to check cruise prices
with him... Told him I was already booked..... "Could I help you with
excursions, then? LOL!
Eileen


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.515 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 9/1/03

[Tom & Linda]

"E.k.R." wrote:
>
>
> This strategy is obviously being used on more than one Carnival brand.
> Travel Agents beware, you are being replaced by a more aggressive strategy.
>

Careful Ernest... they called me Anti Carnival when I hinted at that.
<wink>

Though... I don't see a lot of the VERY PRO Carnival TA's defending
Carnival's new anti TA tactics. Hey... Maybe the very pro Carnival TA's
don't really like it.

--Tom

[Steve Buch]

Say it ain't so Jeff! Jeff & Robert on Carnival? You said you are
"thinking" about it. Please think long and hard! You have an image to
maintain.

- Steve B.

Jeff Coudriet wrote:
> Cal--I think you're right. This isn't (for me at least) a pro-Carnival
> or con-Carnival thing. In fact, we are thinking about sailing on the
> Carnival Legend in January (4 sea days!). For me it's just an
> interesting observation of a business practice.
>
> But the plot thickens....last night Carnival called me for the third
> time! This time they left a voice mail message indicating they wanted
> to help me with the southern caribbean cruise I had been looking at.
> However, I didn't in any way indicate (ie, put a hole, or ask for a
> quote, etc.) on that type of cruise, but clearly they are TRACKING MY
> ONLINE MOVEMENTS ON THEIR WEBSITE. Sorry for the "shouting" but I
> wanted to highlight that. They obviously have very good software and
> were able to track my movements on their site. A little creepy I think.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
> Cal Ford wrote:
>
>>Yes, it was reported in the trade press a few months back that a former Ren
>>marketing guy was in charge of setting up Carnivals direct booking effort.
>>
>>Heard a report last night at a trade show that Carnival has more than 200
>>telephone operators doing nothing but cold calls trying to drum up business.
>>
>>Has nothing to do with whether or not someone likes or dislikes Carnival. It is
>>a fact of business as perceived by Carnival senior management. Nothing more and
>>nothing less.
>>
>>Cal Ford
>>Lido Deck Cruises

[Steve Buch]

I use Spybot too. Got it after reading an article about it. It really
does work. Here is the URL:

http://security.kolla.de/

- Steve B.

Da Parrot-chick wrote:
> "Jeff Coudriet" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>
>>But the plot thickens....last night Carnival called me for the third
>>time! This time they left a voice mail message indicating they wanted
>>to help me with the southern caribbean cruise I had been looking at.
>>However, I didn't in any way indicate (ie, put a hole, or ask for a
>>quote, etc.) on that type of cruise, but clearly they are TRACKING MY
>>ONLINE MOVEMENTS ON THEIR WEBSITE. Sorry for the "shouting" but I
>>wanted to highlight that. They obviously have very good software and
>>were able to track my movements on their site. A little creepy I think.
>
>
> It is creepy, and it's also legal, or at least not illegal. Jeff, there's a
> freeware program called Spybot Search & Destroy that you can download to
> eliminate these type cookies from your hard drive. I run it a couple of
> times a week and am astounded by all the stuff it catches. It's actually
> shareware but they just ask for a donation to keep it available.
>
> I don't have the URL bookmarked but a Google search will probably turn it
> up.
>
>

[George Leppla]

"Tom & Linda" > wrote in message

> Though... I don't see a lot of the VERY PRO Carnival TA's defending
> Carnival's new anti TA tactics. Hey... Maybe the very pro Carnival TA's
> don't really like it.

Maybe we have heard your feeble attempts at trolling so often that we no
longer take you seriously. Repetition without substance is boring and here
lately, you have been a real yawner although I have enjoyed watching you
dance around, rationalize and minimize the deficiencies that others have
reported about your recent Celebrity cruise.

I have posted a number of times about cruise lines trying to get a higher
percentage of their bookings by direct marketing.... especially Carnival. If
you are interested in what I had to say, do a Google search. I'll make it
easy for you.... look up posts I made in early August.

Hint... if you are going to troll, find bait that hasn't been chewed a dozen
times already.


--
George in PA http://www.countryside-travel.com

Norwegian Dawn http://www.cruisemaster.com/dawn.htm
Sleazy 3 - Carnival Conquest http://www.cruisemaster.com/sleazy3.htm

[Jeff Coudriet]

Hmmm, interesting. My little "experiment", as I'm calling it now,
continues. They called me for a fourth time today! Maybe they checked
our credit card records or something and said "he's a keeper"!!

Jeff



"E.k.R." wrote:
>
> Funny, I've sailed on 8 Carnival Cruises including one in July, have ordered
> brochures on numerous occasions and always provided my phone number, and yet
> I've never heard a peep from them. I guess they figure they already have me
> as a customer?
>
> Now just yesterday I did received a call from a "Personal Cruise Consultant"
> at Cunard Line. I recently ordered a brochure on their website, which the
> caller mentioned in his message, and that he wanted to help me with any
> plans I was considering.
>
> This strategy is obviously being used on more than one Carnival brand.
> Travel Agents beware, you are being replaced by a more aggressive strategy.
>
> Ernie - who's already booked on Cunard in May, on the new QM2.

[Jeff Coudriet]

I think I have heard of that software Skip. I shall mosey over to
download.com and look for that.

Jeff


Da Parrot-chick wrote:
>
> It is creepy, and it's also legal, or at least not illegal. Jeff, there's a
> freeware program called Spybot Search & Destroy that you can download to
> eliminate these type cookies from your hard drive. I run it a couple of
> times a week and am astounded by all the stuff it catches. It's actually
> shareware but they just ask for a donation to keep it available.
>
> I don't have the URL bookmarked but a Google search will probably turn it
> up.

[Jeff Coudriet]

Well, it could be like our own reality tv series....like Fear Factor or
something...."Jeff and Robert sail Carnival"; "Jeff and Robert wear
white after Labor Day"; "Jeff and Robert have a martini with vermouth in
it"....etc. What can I say, we're thrill seekers! I do have this mad
desire to try all the major lines, just to see what it's all about. If
nothing else, give me a big balcony and some relaxing days away from
work and I'm good with that.

Jeff


Steve Buch wrote:
>
> Say it ain't so Jeff! Jeff & Robert on Carnival? You said you are
> "thinking" about it. Please think long and hard! You have an image to
> maintain.
>
> - Steve B.
>
> Jeff Coudriet wrote:
> > Cal--I think you're right. This isn't (for me at least) a pro-Carnival
> > or con-Carnival thing. In fact, we are thinking about sailing on the
> > Carnival Legend in January (4 sea days!). For me it's just an
> > interesting observation of a business practice.
> >
> > But the plot thickens....last night Carnival called me for the third
> > time! This time they left a voice mail message indicating they wanted
> > to help me with the southern caribbean cruise I had been looking at.
> > However, I didn't in any way indicate (ie, put a hole, or ask for a
> > quote, etc.) on that type of cruise, but clearly they are TRACKING MY
> > ONLINE MOVEMENTS ON THEIR WEBSITE. Sorry for the "shouting" but I
> > wanted to highlight that. They obviously have very good software and
> > were able to track my movements on their site. A little creepy I think.
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> >
> >

[George Leppla]

"Jeff Coudriet" > wrote in message

> Hmmm, interesting. My little "experiment", as I'm calling it now,
> continues. They called me for a fourth time today! Maybe they checked
> our credit card records or something and said "he's a keeper"!!

I attended a cruise sales phone marketing seminar a few years ago and one of
the things they stressed was that people usually say "No" five times before
making a purchase. The operative rule is that "no" doesn't really mean
"no".... it just means "not yet". Carnival takes that seriously...
repetition and familiarity will get them some sales.

What I know about the direct sales department of Carnival is that the sales
people are paid about $8 per hour plus commission. The commission structure
is such that they can double or even triple their base wage with good
production. Bob Dickinson has been touting this type of agent compensation
publicly for years (small salary plus incentives). These people are highly
motivated to produce sales. That is what I know.

I have also heard (from 2 different people at Carnival) that the turnover in
this department is very high. One factor is that when the regular res
department is overloaded with calls, these Personal Vacation Planners have
to take calls from TAs and give quotes of make reservations. They do not
get any commission for these calls. Another factor is that the production
goals are very hard to achieve. I have no way to know if this is fact, but
I have talked with a few of these people on the phone so I tend to believe
it.

Carnival makes no bones about wanting to garner more market share through
direct sales. The last figure they quoted was a goal of 25% in a few years.
I'm betting they are looking for more. Does that mean that TA's are going
to be put out of business? Heck... anything is possible but I doubt it.
Will TA's play less of a role in the distribution system? You bet, but some
of that might be offset by the projected increased number of berths. As I
posted on August 1st:

"One thing for sure... any travel agent who has a 5 year business plan had
better think in smaller blocks of time. <vbg> Things will change too
rapidly for any long range planning."

Now we should leave space for Paul S. to add his predictable rant about how
TA's are going the way of the mastodons and Tom K can chime in with his dire
predictions of how in 10 years there will be only 2 cruise lines controlling
the entire industry and travel agents will be out of business. Two trolls
sharing a common theme.

For me, in ten years I hope to be retired. I'm going to pull the cinder
blocks out from under the old house trailer, put Mom and the cats in the
back of the pick-up and head for Florida so I can live close to the port.
And if Carnival and Princess are the only two cruise lines left, I would be
happy because I like them both!


--
George in PA <--- going on the Paradise, 9/21 with about 70 of my friends

http://www.countryside-travel.com

Norwegian Dawn http://www.cruisemaster.com/dawn.htm
Sleazy 3 - Carnival Conquest http://www.cruisemaster.com/sleazy3.htm

[Tom & Linda]

What's the difference between the Personal Vacation Planners and the
regular res department?

--Tom


George Leppla wrote:
>
> "Jeff Coudriet" > wrote in message
>
> > Hmmm, interesting. My little "experiment", as I'm calling it now,
> > continues. They called me for a fourth time today! Maybe they checked
> > our credit card records or something and said "he's a keeper"!!
>
> I attended a cruise sales phone marketing seminar a few years ago and one of
> the things they stressed was that people usually say "No" five times before
> making a purchase. The operative rule is that "no" doesn't really mean
> "no".... it just means "not yet". Carnival takes that seriously...
> repetition and familiarity will get them some sales.
>
> What I know about the direct sales department of Carnival is that the sales
> people are paid about $8 per hour plus commission. The commission structure
> is such that they can double or even triple their base wage with good
> production. Bob Dickinson has been touting this type of agent compensation
> publicly for years (small salary plus incentives). These people are highly
> motivated to produce sales. That is what I know.
>
> I have also heard (from 2 different people at Carnival) that the turnover in
> this department is very high. One factor is that when the regular res
> department is overloaded with calls, these Personal Vacation Planners have
> to take calls from TAs and give quotes of make reservations. They do not
> get any commission for these calls. Another factor is that the production
> goals are very hard to achieve. I have no way to know if this is fact, but
> I have talked with a few of these people on the phone so I tend to believe
> it.
>
> Carnival makes no bones about wanting to garner more market share through
> direct sales. The last figure they quoted was a goal of 25% in a few years.
> I'm betting they are looking for more. Does that mean that TA's are going
> to be put out of business? Heck... anything is possible but I doubt it.
> Will TA's play less of a role in the distribution system? You bet, but some
> of that might be offset by the projected increased number of berths. As I
> posted on August 1st:
>
> "One thing for sure... any travel agent who has a 5 year business plan had
> better think in smaller blocks of time. <vbg> Things will change too
> rapidly for any long range planning."
>
> Now we should leave space for Paul S. to add his predictable rant about how
> TA's are going the way of the mastodons and Tom K can chime in with his dire
> predictions of how in 10 years there will be only 2 cruise lines controlling
> the entire industry and travel agents will be out of business. Two trolls
> sharing a common theme.
>
> For me, in ten years I hope to be retired. I'm going to pull the cinder
> blocks out from under the old house trailer, put Mom and the cats in the
> back of the pick-up and head for Florida so I can live close to the port.
> And if Carnival and Princess are the only two cruise lines left, I would be
> happy because I like them both!
>
> --
> George in PA <--- going on the Paradise, 9/21 with about 70 of my friends
>
> http://www.countryside-travel.com
>
> Norwegian Dawn http://www.cruisemaster.com/dawn.htm
> Sleazy 3 - Carnival Conquest http://www.cruisemaster.com/sleazy3.htm

[George Leppla]

"Tom & Linda" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> What's the difference between the Personal Vacation Planners and the
> regular res department?

People in the regular reservation centers deal only with travel agents.
They do not sell anything and do not get commissions. They just give
quotes, make reservations and take payments. They are not trained as sales
people but as order entry people.

Personal Vacation Planners mostly deal directly with the customer and try to
sell cruises. They are paid a base salary plus commission.

It is ironic how people say that the cruise lines want to save money by
eliminating commissions. The truth of the matter is that they do pay the
commissions, either to a travel agent or to their own employees. I think
that in the current market, any cruise line would be crazy to use just one
method of selling cruises. There is a market for people who want to use a
travel agent and there is a market for people who want to book direct.
Smart cruise lines will make the most of both distribution systems.... and
not make the mistake of relying on only one way of selling anything.


--
George in PA http://www.countryside-travel.com

Norwegian Dawn http://www.cruisemaster.com/dawn.htm
Sleazy 3 - Carnival Conquest http://www.cruisemaster.com/sleazy3.htm

[Jeff Coudriet]

Hmmm...interesting! I can say no really well though! I guess I'm the
type to who wouldn't book direct with the cruise line....I'd always pick
a cruise only TA who rebates commission! I've never found a better or
cheaper way!

Jeff



George Leppla wrote:
>
> I attended a cruise sales phone marketing seminar a few years ago and one of
> the things they stressed was that people usually say "No" five times before
> making a purchase. The operative rule is that "no" doesn't really mean
> "no".... it just means "not yet". Carnival takes that seriously...
> repetition and familiarity will get them some sales.

[Bill C]

Jeff,
I have been reading on cruisecritic.com how some people get the lowest quote
they can on the internet and then call CCL and they match the quote. I have
stated I don't believe it but they insist they've done it. Anythings
possible I guess.

Bill

"Jeff Coudriet" > wrote in message
...
> Hmmm...interesting! I can say no really well though! I guess I'm the
> type to who wouldn't book direct with the cruise line....I'd always pick
> a cruise only TA who rebates commission! I've never found a better or
> cheaper way!
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> George Leppla wrote:
> >
> > I attended a cruise sales phone marketing seminar a few years ago and
one of
> > the things they stressed was that people usually say "No" five times
before
> > making a purchase. The operative rule is that "no" doesn't really mean
> > "no".... it just means "not yet". Carnival takes that seriously...
> > repetition and familiarity will get them some sales.

[GRL]

I tried it, got a price from an on-line TA then called CCL to ask them to
match it. All they would do is take the order and then phone it in to the
on-line TA for me. The CCL direct discount price for someone from my home
state was about 5% higher than the on-line TA and MUCH lower than what other
on-line TA's had on their web sites. Taught me to call CCL direct before I
book to make sure that the direct rate is not better and to make sure the
CCL agent looks through all the myriad discounts I might qualify for.


- GRL

"It's good to want things."

Steve Barr (philosopher, poet, humorist, chemist,
Visual Basic programmer)
"Bill C" > wrote in message
...
> Jeff,
> I have been reading on cruisecritic.com how some people get the lowest
quote
> they can on the internet and then call CCL and they match the quote. I
have
> stated I don't believe it but they insist they've done it. Anythings
> possible I guess.
>
> Bill
>
> "Jeff Coudriet" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hmmm...interesting! I can say no really well though! I guess I'm the
> > type to who wouldn't book direct with the cruise line....I'd always pick
> > a cruise only TA who rebates commission! I've never found a better or
> > cheaper way!
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> >
> >
> > George Leppla wrote:
> > >
> > > I attended a cruise sales phone marketing seminar a few years ago and
> one of
> > > the things they stressed was that people usually say "No" five times
> before
> > > making a purchase. The operative rule is that "no" doesn't really
mean
> > > "no".... it just means "not yet". Carnival takes that seriously...
> > > repetition and familiarity will get them some sales.
>
>

[Deirdre Saoirse Moen]

In article >, "EileenMcDonald"
> wrote:

> << But the plot thickens....last night Carnival called me for the third
> time! >>
>
> Carnival also called me, last week. Like you, I had registered at the site,
> giving my real name and phone #.

By the way, since my husband told them I was a travel agent, they haven't
called back. Just a thought. :)

--
_Deirdre http://deirdre.net
"Dogs may have kept us company on the hunt, but it was the cats who
insisted we invent houses and discover fire." -- Khiem Tran

[Theresa]

I have sailed Carnival once about 4 years ago.

In May, I was looking for a last minute Alaskan cruise and logged on
to Carnvial's site to look at pricing for their Alaskan cruise. Not
sure if I logged on to the right part of their website, but I had to
provide my phone number, etc. . I didn't think twice - I used my real
number. To make a long story short......I ended up booking a Princess
ship.

But the very next day, I received a call from Carnival asking if I was
ready to book the Carnival Spirit which I had priced the night before.
I wasn't too happy to receive the call. All I had done was look at
pricing on their website.

Now, I know better. I use someone else's site to look at Carnival's
pricing.

[Mason Barge]

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 00:21:07 GMT, Jeff Coudriet
> wrote:

>Hmmm, interesting. My little "experiment", as I'm calling it now,
>continues. They called me for a fourth time today! Maybe they checked
>our credit card records or something and said "he's a keeper"!!
>
>Jeff
>

Jeff -- free legal advice. You need to use the eight magic words:

"Please put me on your don't call list"

I've never actually sued someone for this, but for faxes, the next
offense costs them $500 if you want to push it.


Mason Barge

"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea. If this is tea, please bring me some coffee."
-- Abraham Lincoln

[Jean O'Boyle]

A couple of weeks ago, I requested a brochure from Cunard because of our
interest in the QM2. Tonight I received an e-mail from Cunard asking me to
contact him (personal vacation consultant) giving his name and saying if I
had not made reservations, to contact him or my travel agent for answers to
any questions and booking. No phone calls, however.

--Jean