Paris advice

[Darlene Hinton]

Just came back from a European cruise which was awesome (and exhasting!)
A little word of advice to anyone who takes an excursion to Paris in the
future. Pick 2 and ONLY 2 places you want to see. Time is very limited.
I tried to see the Eiffel Tower, Notre dame, and the Louvre. In hind
sight I would have skipped Notre dame (which i did see)
and spent that time at the Louvre (which I only saw the outside of) I
was extremely disappointed and I hope this helps others from making the
same mistake.


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

[Charles]

In article
gate.org>, Darlene
Hinton > wrote:

> I was extremely disappointed and I hope this helps others from making
> the same mistake.

I would not even attempt Paris from a cruise. That is a city for a land
vacation.

--
Charles

[Mike Cordelli]

There are two things about seeing Paris and many of the other major cities
from a cruise ship:

1) you are usually there at the height of tourist season, and there are
lines

2) they never give you enough time to see what you want to see

Paris especially (but also Rome, Florence, Athens, New York, etc) is a city
you want to spend a few days in, do what you want to do, have dinner at a
cafe late at night, all the things you can't do on a cruise ship that's
there for a few hours in the summer.

Look on the bright side, the fares to Paris should be very low this winter
(there are always deeply discounted Thanksgiving weekend, you can leave just
before dessert and wake up Friday in Paris) so you can go back and catch up
on what you missed, and there won't be crowds anyplace.



"Darlene Hinton" > wrote in message
news:5b78b328216b42dc5bd1183ba29db1b7.51473@mygate .mailgate.org...
> Just came back from a European cruise which was awesome (and exhasting!)
> A little word of advice to anyone who takes an excursion to Paris in the
> future. Pick 2 and ONLY 2 places you want to see. Time is very limited.
> I tried to see the Eiffel Tower, Notre dame, and the Louvre. In hind
> sight I would have skipped Notre dame (which i did see)
> and spent that time at the Louvre (which I only saw the outside of) I
> was extremely disappointed and I hope this helps others from making the
> same mistake.
>
>
> --
> Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

[JLeary256]

>> I was extremely disappointed and I hope this helps others from making
>> the same mistake.
>
>I would not even attempt Paris from a cruise. That is a city for a land
>vacation.
>



I absolutely agree. I have toured Europe many times and always with flying in
and staying a couple weeks (husband fluent German). A cruise just doesn't cut
it.

[Plasma]

Darlene,

Maybe you did make the right decisions. You can see the Eiffel Tower and
Notre Dame in an hour or so each but the Louvre takes several hours just to
survey the halls let alone really see anything. A full day is really
required at the Louvre.

Mike

"Darlene Hinton" > wrote in message
news:5b78b328216b42dc5bd1183ba29db1b7.51473@mygate .mailgate.org...
> Just came back from a European cruise which was awesome (and exhasting!)
> A little word of advice to anyone who takes an excursion to Paris in the
> future. Pick 2 and ONLY 2 places you want to see. Time is very limited.
> I tried to see the Eiffel Tower, Notre dame, and the Louvre. In hind
> sight I would have skipped Notre dame (which i did see)
> and spent that time at the Louvre (which I only saw the outside of) I
> was extremely disappointed and I hope this helps others from making the
> same mistake.
>
>
> --
> Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

[Jenn]

In article
gate.org>,
"Darlene Hinton" > wrote:

> Just came back from a European cruise which was awesome (and exhasting!)
> A little word of advice to anyone who takes an excursion to Paris in the
> future. Pick 2 and ONLY 2 places you want to see. Time is very limited.
> I tried to see the Eiffel Tower, Notre dame, and the Louvre. In hind
> sight I would have skipped Notre dame (which i did see)
> and spent that time at the Louvre (which I only saw the outside of) I
> was extremely disappointed and I hope this helps others from making the
> same mistake.

having just spent a month in Paris I can't imagine getting much out of
it in a quickie trip BUT

when that is the time you have, it is very important to focus on what
you want from it

e.g. we had one evening in London -- so we had fish and chips, went to a
Gilbert and Sullivan at the D'Oyley Carte theater at the Savoy and took
an evening stroll near Westminster Abbey, Parliament and Big Ben -- that
was all we could manage

in Paris, I would be inclined to skip the Eiffel [you can see if from
everywhere anyway] and see Notre Dame and then repair to a sidewalk
cafe, have coffee or an aperitif and watch the world go by -- maybe
stroll along the Seine a bit. The louvre is a major undertaking -- well
worth two or three full days -- and certainly less than 2 hours is not
much worth doing.

less is more -- choose something YOU have always dreamed of -- but maybe
just one such something [whether it is going up in the Eiffel Tower OR
seeing a museum OR Notre Dame or whatever] have a memorable intense
experience rather than a 'drive by' photo op

[Tom]

My rule of thumb for Paris is to stay at least 100 miles from the city
limits. I would have stayed on the ship and enjoyed a nice relaxing
drink.

[Jenn]

In article >,
(Tom) wrote:

> My rule of thumb for Paris is to stay at least 100 miles from the city
> limits. I would have stayed on the ship and enjoyed a nice relaxing
> drink.


takes all kinds -- I think it is the greatest place in the world to
spend time -- beautiful city, livable city, vibrant and interesting city

[TBird]

It's my opinion that one shouldn't even attempt the Louvre without GOOD walking
shoes and several FULL days...

TBird <---- but then I grew up only blocks from the Metroplitan Museum in NYC,
went there all the time, and still haven't seen huge sections of it...
~~~~~~~
One of the Four Horsewomen of the ATH Gutter

[TBird]

>My rule of thumb for Paris is to stay at least 100 miles from the city
>limits. I would have stayed on the ship and enjoyed a nice relaxing
>drink.

That's very sad to me... I love Paris and would gladly live there for at least
a year if the opportunity arose.

I've had dinner at the Eiffel Tower, spent not nearly enough time at the
Louvre, explored the science museums, and you can drop me anywhere in the city
and I will walk directly to Sacre Coeur without getting lost.

Then there's the crepes from the street vendors.... ooo la la.....

TBird <--- wondering if there's an off topic penalty on this group... :-)
~~~~~~~
One of the Four Horsewomen of the ATH Gutter

[Mike Cordelli]

Gee, thanks. I'm trying to figure out what pitiful thing to get from lunch,
and you pop that into my mind. What were they, something like $1.50 or
something? Nothing I'm gonna get for lunch today will be better then a
strawberry and a nutella crepe from the vendors.

I hate you.



"TBird" > wrote in message
...
>
> Then there's the crepes from the street vendors.... ooo la la.....
>
> TBird <--- wondering if there's an off topic penalty on this group... :-)
> ~~~~~~~
> One of the Four Horsewomen of the ATH Gutter

[Howard Garland]

Tom wrote:

> My rule of thumb for Paris is to stay at least 100 miles from the city
> limits.

Why would you stay away from this most beautiful of all cities, Tom? I
can never get as much time in Paris as I want. On many of my trips
there I have thought that if there were no other considerations, I would
just stay in Paris forever.

Howard

[Sue Keenan]

While it's not quite the same as eating a Nutella crepe while strolling
along a Parsian park on the way to the Louvre or sitting at a small cafe
at the Paris Hotel in Las Vegas, Joe ans I make our own Nutella crepes
right here at home. You can find Nutella at Trader Joe's.

Sue <---enjoyed strawberry crepes last weekend while in Amsterdam,
Netherlands

Mike Cordelli wrote:
>
> Gee, thanks. I'm trying to figure out what pitiful thing to get from lunch,
> and you pop that into my mind. What were they, something like $1.50 or
> something? Nothing I'm gonna get for lunch today will be better then a
> strawberry and a nutella crepe from the vendors.
>
> I hate you.

[Mike Cordelli]

I've got a ton of Nutella, it's available everywhere, but how do you make
your crepe? No matter what I try it's not the same as over there.



"Sue Keenan" > wrote in message
...
> While it's not quite the same as eating a Nutella crepe while strolling
> along a Parsian park on the way to the Louvre or sitting at a small cafe
> at the Paris Hotel in Las Vegas, Joe ans I make our own Nutella crepes
> right here at home. You can find Nutella at Trader Joe's.
>
> Sue <---enjoyed strawberry crepes last weekend while in Amsterdam,
> Netherlands
>
> Mike Cordelli wrote:
> >
> > Gee, thanks. I'm trying to figure out what pitiful thing to get from
lunch,
> > and you pop that into my mind. What were they, something like $1.50 or
> > something? Nothing I'm gonna get for lunch today will be better then a
> > strawberry and a nutella crepe from the vendors.
> >
> > I hate you.

[Sue Keenan]

I too agree the crepes were better in Paris, but I assummed it was
because we used 2% milk, instead of whole milk. Perhaps a nut flour
would be better to use also. As to how the crepes are made, I need to
defer your question to Joe, who's the chef in the family.

Sue

Mike Cordelli wrote:
>
> I've got a ton of Nutella, it's available everywhere, but how do you make
> your crepe? No matter what I try it's not the same as over there.
>

[TBird]

>
>Gee, thanks. I'm trying to figure out what pitiful thing to get from lunch,
>and you pop that into my mind. What were they, something like $1.50 or
>something? Nothing I'm gonna get for lunch today will be better then a
>strawberry and a nutella crepe from the vendors.
>
>I hate you.

:::Evil TBird shoves sweet TBird away from the keyboard, cackling wildly:::

Oh yes, the crepes.... about $1.50 or less... and then, in 1984, as a
vegetarian with a limited French vocabulary, I would order "Pain et fromage.
Une verre du vin blanc." and get an incredible glass of white wine to wash down
my hunk of brie on fresh french bread, and it cost at the time, a total of
$1.95USD.

TBird <--- and you though you hated me before..... BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA
~~~~~~~
One of the Four Horsewomen of the ATH Gutter

[villa deauville]

On a land trip to Paris we visited the Louvre among many landmarks.
We were so fortunate on this one visit we were able to view the Statue
of David which was on loan from the Accademia Gallery in Florence. What
a bonus.
We also took a trip out to Versailles which was wonderful.

SUNNY<..........agrees Paris has to be seen on a land trip

S'nd I

[Mike Cordelli]

I'll second that trip

But, wait, no people couldn't possibly go, they would have to be back on the
ship for lunch, bypassing all the wonderful sandwich shops by the palace.


"villa deauville" > wrote in message
...


> We also took a trip out to Versailles which was wonderful.
>
> SUNNY<..........agrees Paris has to be seen on a land trip
>
> S'nd I
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Michael Brennan]

Yes the Louvre is enormous. Made the mistake of trying to see the Mona Lisa
on the first Sunday of August last year, when museums are free. It was
not a very pleasant experience. The musee D'Orsay on the other hand was
wonderful, even with lots of crowds, I am referring to the 4th floor in the
Hall of the Impressionists.

--mikeb

In article >,
Plasma > wrote:
>Darlene,
>
>Maybe you did make the right decisions. You can see the Eiffel Tower and
>Notre Dame in an hour or so each but the Louvre takes several hours just to
>survey the halls let alone really see anything. A full day is really
>required at the Louvre.
>
>Mike
>
>"Darlene Hinton" > wrote in message
>news:5b78b328216b42dc5bd1183ba29db1b7.51473@mygate .mailgate.org...
>> Just came back from a European cruise which was awesome (and exhasting!)
>> A little word of advice to anyone who takes an excursion to Paris in the
>> future. Pick 2 and ONLY 2 places you want to see. Time is very limited.
>> I tried to see the Eiffel Tower, Notre dame, and the Louvre. In hind
>> sight I would have skipped Notre dame (which i did see)
>> and spent that time at the Louvre (which I only saw the outside of) I
>> was extremely disappointed and I hope this helps others from making the
>> same mistake.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
>
>

[Michael Brennan]

Did a one day trip of Paris via Eurostar from London a few years back.
Arrived in Paris at 10am and left around 8pm. It was a very long day,
but we had a wonderful time. Took in Musee D'Orsay, Rodin museum and
Printemps, walked around Champs Elysees, Left Bank, and Sacre Coeur
(great sunset from the top).

--mikeb

In article >,
Jenn > wrote:
>In article
gate.org>,
> "Darlene Hinton" > wrote:
>
>> Just came back from a European cruise which was awesome (and exhasting!)
>> A little word of advice to anyone who takes an excursion to Paris in the
>> future. Pick 2 and ONLY 2 places you want to see. Time is very limited.
>> I tried to see the Eiffel Tower, Notre dame, and the Louvre. In hind
>> sight I would have skipped Notre dame (which i did see)
>> and spent that time at the Louvre (which I only saw the outside of) I
>> was extremely disappointed and I hope this helps others from making the
>> same mistake.
>
>having just spent a month in Paris I can't imagine getting much out of
>it in a quickie trip BUT
>
>when that is the time you have, it is very important to focus on what
>you want from it
>
>e.g. we had one evening in London -- so we had fish and chips, went to a
>Gilbert and Sullivan at the D'Oyley Carte theater at the Savoy and took
>an evening stroll near Westminster Abbey, Parliament and Big Ben -- that
>was all we could manage
>
>in Paris, I would be inclined to skip the Eiffel [you can see if from
>everywhere anyway] and see Notre Dame and then repair to a sidewalk
>cafe, have coffee or an aperitif and watch the world go by -- maybe
>stroll along the Seine a bit. The louvre is a major undertaking -- well
>worth two or three full days -- and certainly less than 2 hours is not
>much worth doing.
>
>less is more -- choose something YOU have always dreamed of -- but maybe
>just one such something [whether it is going up in the Eiffel Tower OR
>seeing a museum OR Notre Dame or whatever] have a memorable intense
>experience rather than a 'drive by' photo op

[Howard Garland]

I remember how disappointed I was the first time I saw the Mona Lisa at
the Louve. There was an enormous crowd of Japanese tourists, so that
you couldnt get near the little painting. What's worse, the painting
was behind glass and, despite the prohibition, there was a steady stream
of camera flashes that completely obscured my view.

Howard

Michael Brennan wrote:

> Yes the Louvre is enormous. Made the mistake of trying to see the Mona Lisa
> on the first Sunday of August last year, when museums are free. It was
> not a very pleasant experience. The musee D'Orsay on the other hand was
> wonderful, even with lots of crowds, I am referring to the 4th floor in the
> Hall of the Impressionists.
>
> --mikeb
>
> In article >,
> Plasma > wrote:
>
>>Darlene,
>>
>>Maybe you did make the right decisions. You can see the Eiffel Tower and
>>Notre Dame in an hour or so each but the Louvre takes several hours just to
>>survey the halls let alone really see anything. A full day is really
>>required at the Louvre.
>>
>>Mike
>>
>>"Darlene Hinton" > wrote in message
>>news:5b78b328216b42dc5bd1183ba29db1b7.51473@mygate .mailgate.org...
>>
>>>Just came back from a European cruise which was awesome (and exhasting!)
>>>A little word of advice to anyone who takes an excursion to Paris in the
>>>future. Pick 2 and ONLY 2 places you want to see. Time is very limited.
>>>I tried to see the Eiffel Tower, Notre dame, and the Louvre. In hind
>>>sight I would have skipped Notre dame (which i did see)
>>>and spent that time at the Louvre (which I only saw the outside of) I
>>>was extremely disappointed and I hope this helps others from making the
>>>same mistake.
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
>>
>>
>
>

[Sue Keenan]

I agree. I too was kinda disappointed when I saw the Mona Lisa.

Sue <---saw Rembrandt's Nigh****ch last weekend and was in awe of such
an impressive painting

Howard Garland wrote:
>
> I remember how disappointed I was the first time I saw the Mona Lisa at
> the Louve. There was an enormous crowd of Japanese tourists, so that
> you couldnt get near the little painting. What's worse, the painting
> was behind glass and, despite the prohibition, there was a steady stream
> of camera flashes that completely obscured my view.
>
> Howard
>
> Michael Brennan wrote:
>
> > Yes the Louvre is enormous. Made the mistake of trying to see the Mona Lisa
> > on the first Sunday of August last year, when museums are free. It was
> > not a very pleasant experience. The musee D'Orsay on the other hand was
> > wonderful, even with lots of crowds, I am referring to the 4th floor in the
> > Hall of the Impressionists.
> >
> > --mikeb
> >
> > In article >,
> > Plasma > wrote:
> >
> >>Darlene,
> >>
> >>Maybe you did make the right decisions. You can see the Eiffel Tower and
> >>Notre Dame in an hour or so each but the Louvre takes several hours just to
> >>survey the halls let alone really see anything. A full day is really
> >>required at the Louvre.
> >>
> >>Mike
> >>
> >>"Darlene Hinton" > wrote in message
> >>news:5b78b328216b42dc5bd1183ba29db1b7.51473@mygate .mailgate.org...
> >>
> >>>Just came back from a European cruise which was awesome (and exhasting!)
> >>>A little word of advice to anyone who takes an excursion to Paris in the
> >>>future. Pick 2 and ONLY 2 places you want to see. Time is very limited.
> >>>I tried to see the Eiffel Tower, Notre dame, and the Louvre. In hind
> >>>sight I would have skipped Notre dame (which i did see)
> >>>and spent that time at the Louvre (which I only saw the outside of) I
> >>>was extremely disappointed and I hope this helps others from making the
> >>>same mistake.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>--
> >>>Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
> >>
> >>
> >
> >

[Howard Garland]

> Sue <---saw Rembrandt's Nigh****ch last weekend and was in awe of such
> an impressive painting

I, too, was in awe last month when I saw the painting in Amsterdam.

[villa deauville]

Just an aside. While exiting Notre Dame we were approached by a vendor
trying to sell us ahem, cough, cough, the kinda pictures you wouldnt
want your kids to see

SUNNY.........was amazed how the Mona Lisa's eyes kept following her

S'nd I

[Tom & Linda]

To me, the real treasure in the Louvre is the 2 Michelangelo Sculptures
that are quietly hidden in the basement. The day we were there, I don't
even remember anyone else in the room with us. Back then (17 years ago
for our honeymoon) we were even allowed to touch the sculptures. You
could feel the muscles and veins carved by the artist into the Carerra
marble. Masterpieces by one of the top 3 geniuses in the history of the
world.

--Tom

Howard Garland wrote:
>
> I remember how disappointed I was the first time I saw the Mona Lisa at
> the Louve. There was an enormous crowd of Japanese tourists, so that
> you couldnt get near the little painting. What's worse, the painting
> was behind glass and, despite the prohibition, there was a steady stream
> of camera flashes that completely obscured my view.
>
> Howard
>
> Michael Brennan wrote:
>
> > Yes the Louvre is enormous. Made the mistake of trying to see the Mona Lisa
> > on the first Sunday of August last year, when museums are free. It was
> > not a very pleasant experience. The musee D'Orsay on the other hand was
> > wonderful, even with lots of crowds, I am referring to the 4th floor in the
> > Hall of the Impressionists.
> >
> > --mikeb
> >
> > In article >,
> > Plasma > wrote:
> >
> >>Darlene,
> >>
> >>Maybe you did make the right decisions. You can see the Eiffel Tower and
> >>Notre Dame in an hour or so each but the Louvre takes several hours just to
> >>survey the halls let alone really see anything. A full day is really
> >>required at the Louvre.
> >>
> >>Mike
> >>
> >>"Darlene Hinton" > wrote in message
> >>news:5b78b328216b42dc5bd1183ba29db1b7.51473@mygate .mailgate.org...
> >>
> >>>Just came back from a European cruise which was awesome (and exhasting!)
> >>>A little word of advice to anyone who takes an excursion to Paris in the
> >>>future. Pick 2 and ONLY 2 places you want to see. Time is very limited.
> >>>I tried to see the Eiffel Tower, Notre dame, and the Louvre. In hind
> >>>sight I would have skipped Notre dame (which i did see)
> >>>and spent that time at the Louvre (which I only saw the outside of) I
> >>>was extremely disappointed and I hope this helps others from making the
> >>>same mistake.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>--
> >>>Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
> >>
> >>
> >
> >

[Joe Keenan]

I don't recall where I got the last crepe recipe I used. There really
wasn't all that much to it. Flour, melted butter, milk, egg. Sue's
probably right about the milk. We should probably keep some cream in the
house to make up for the 2% milk (which is mine - Sue uses skim).

Keeping the batter smooth enough, and thin enough, is one trick. It really
needs to end up looking like heavy cream, not batter. Which is hard when
you're used to American style pancake batter.

I'm not sure how I'm ever going to really duplicate the traditional cooking
method, because I'm never going to be able to get one of those big,
perfectly flat, griddles they use. I just use the biggest non-stick pan I
have and make the crepes a little smaller than I would prefer.

Hmm. I think I may need to try another batch or two this weekend to work on
my technique. We have a little nutella left. ;-)

joe

On 9/19/03 1:53 PM, in article , "Sue
Keenan" > wrote:

> I too agree the crepes were better in Paris, but I assummed it was
> because we used 2% milk, instead of whole milk. Perhaps a nut flour
> would be better to use also. As to how the crepes are made, I need to
> defer your question to Joe, who's the chef in the family.
>
> Sue
>
> Mike Cordelli wrote:
>>
>> I've got a ton of Nutella, it's available everywhere, but how do you make
>> your crepe? No matter what I try it's not the same as over there.
>>

[Joe Keenan]

On 9/19/03 2:25 PM, in article ,
"TBird" > wrote:

> Oh yes, the crepes.... about $1.50 or less... and then, in 1984, as a
> vegetarian with a limited French vocabulary, I would order "Pain et fromage.
> Une verre du vin blanc." and get an incredible glass of white wine to wash
> down
> my hunk of brie on fresh french bread, and it cost at the time, a total of
> $1.95USD.

Ah. Had that last Sunday at a sidewalk café in Amsterdam. Yum, yum.
Except I had a couple glasses of Le Chouf (sp?) beer instead of the wine.
Not as good as the Rodenbach I had Friday night, but pretty good.

joe

[Tom & Linda]

I found the secret for crepes is to use one of those "boat mixers", as
Emeril calls them, to really finely blend the batter mixture. You can't
have any lumps. And it has to be very thin. Thin enough so that when
you ladle a quarter cup of batter into the pan, the batter spreads out
into a think mixture if you lift the pan and twirl it around in a
circle. 2% milk works fine. You add about twice as much milk as for
pancakes.

I cook them in a square 11" x 11" Cephalon pan that I got at Fortunoff.
The pan has to be hot before you start. About a minute on one side
(till slightly brown), and 15 seconds or so on the other side.

I like to add cottage cheese and raspberry preserves when finished.
Roll them and heat them, with some more raspberry preserves on top,
melting and running over the sides.

Hmmm... I think know what's for breakfast tomorrow :)

--Tom <--- who gave Barry Cunningham the world's best carrot cake recipe

Joe Keenan wrote:
>
> I don't recall where I got the last crepe recipe I used. There really
> wasn't all that much to it. Flour, melted butter, milk, egg. Sue's
> probably right about the milk. We should probably keep some cream in the
> house to make up for the 2% milk (which is mine - Sue uses skim).
>
> Keeping the batter smooth enough, and thin enough, is one trick. It really
> needs to end up looking like heavy cream, not batter. Which is hard when
> you're used to American style pancake batter.
>
> I'm not sure how I'm ever going to really duplicate the traditional cooking
> method, because I'm never going to be able to get one of those big,
> perfectly flat, griddles they use. I just use the biggest non-stick pan I
> have and make the crepes a little smaller than I would prefer.
>
> Hmm. I think I may need to try another batch or two this weekend to work on
> my technique. We have a little nutella left. ;-)
>
> joe
>
> On 9/19/03 1:53 PM, in article , "Sue
> Keenan" > wrote:
>
> > I too agree the crepes were better in Paris, but I assummed it was
> > because we used 2% milk, instead of whole milk. Perhaps a nut flour
> > would be better to use also. As to how the crepes are made, I need to
> > defer your question to Joe, who's the chef in the family.
> >
> > Sue
> >
> > Mike Cordelli wrote:
> >>
> >> I've got a ton of Nutella, it's available everywhere, but how do you make
> >> your crepe? No matter what I try it's not the same as over there.
> >>

[Danni]

"Joe Keenan" > wrote in message
...
> I don't recall where I got the last crepe recipe I used. There really
> wasn't all that much to it. Flour, melted butter, milk, egg. Sue's
> probably right about the milk. We should probably keep some cream in the
> house to make up for the 2% milk (which is mine - Sue uses skim).
>
> Keeping the batter smooth enough, and thin enough, is one trick. It
really
> needs to end up looking like heavy cream, not batter. Which is hard when
> you're used to American style pancake batter.
>
> I'm not sure how I'm ever going to really duplicate the traditional
cooking
> method, because I'm never going to be able to get one of those big,
> perfectly flat, griddles they use. I just use the biggest non-stick pan I
> have and make the crepes a little smaller than I would prefer.
>
> Hmm. I think I may need to try another batch or two this weekend to work
on
> my technique. We have a little nutella left. ;-)
>
> joe

The trick to a really good crepe is allowing the batter to stand for at
least an hour before trying to use it. Beat the egg and the milk and a
little sugar and salt, stir in the flour (not too much, don't want to
activate the gluten), add in the melted butter.

After about an hour, give it another light stir. Heat up the pan, brush
with butter (even if it's non-stick--for flavor), add in the batter and
swirl. You'll probably have to toss the first one or two....they always
come out a little funky.

Enjoy!

[Joe Keenan]

On 9/19/03 11:12 PM, in article , "Danni"
> wrote:


> The trick to a really good crepe is allowing the batter to stand for at
> least an hour before trying to use it. Beat the egg and the milk and a
> little sugar and salt, stir in the flour (not too much, don't want to
> activate the gluten), add in the melted butter.

Yup. I remember that part. Makes it hard to decide to make crepes last
minute. ;-(

joe

[Mason Barge]

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 04:12:29 +0000 (UTC), "Darlene Hinton"
> wrote:

>Just came back from a European cruise which was awesome (and exhasting!)
>A little word of advice to anyone who takes an excursion to Paris in the
>future. Pick 2 and ONLY 2 places you want to see. Time is very limited.
>I tried to see the Eiffel Tower, Notre dame, and the Louvre. In hind
>sight I would have skipped Notre dame (which i did see)
>and spent that time at the Louvre (which I only saw the outside of) I
>was extremely disappointed and I hope this helps others from making the
>same mistake.

It is a huge waste of time and money to see large, important, inland
European cities on a one-day cruise excursion, UNLESS there is no
chance you will ever get back and it is your sole chance to ever see
them. Rome, Florence, Berlin, Paris, London (unless you dock there!),
Moscow . . . . Take a land trip.

My advice for a Le Havre landing is a day in Rouen.


Mason Barge

"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea. If this is tea, please bring me some coffee."
-- Abraham Lincoln

[Howard Garland]

Tom & Linda wrote:

> To me, the real treasure in the Louvre is the 2 Michelangelo Sculptures
> that are quietly hidden in the basement.

Like the Met in NY, there are so many treasures in the Louvre that it's
hard for me to pick my favorites. Even devoid of art and artifacts, the
building itself is a treasure.

The day we were there, I don't
> even remember anyone else in the room with us. Back then (17 years ago
> for our honeymoon) we were even allowed to touch the sculptures. You
> could feel the muscles and veins carved by the artist into the Carerra
> marble. Masterpieces by one of the top 3 geniuses in the history of the
> world.
>
> --Tom


Sculpture is meant to be touched, as any sculptor will tell you. I
remember putting out my hand to touch Le Penseur, in the garden of the
Rodin museum during one of our trips to Paris. Immediately, one of the
touch police (as I call them) was by my side admonishing me. Here was
this incredible statue, sitting outdoors in the elements for all those
years and I couldn't touch it.

In stark contrast, I was astonished during my first trip to the Brittish
museum, where folks were actually encouraged to touch the rosetta stone.

Howard

[Howard Garland]

I agree.

Mason Barge wrote:

> On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 04:12:29 +0000 (UTC), "Darlene Hinton"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Just came back from a European cruise which was awesome (and exhasting!)
>>A little word of advice to anyone who takes an excursion to Paris in the
>>future. Pick 2 and ONLY 2 places you want to see. Time is very limited.
>>I tried to see the Eiffel Tower, Notre dame, and the Louvre. In hind
>>sight I would have skipped Notre dame (which i did see)
>>and spent that time at the Louvre (which I only saw the outside of) I
>>was extremely disappointed and I hope this helps others from making the
>>same mistake.
>
>
> It is a huge waste of time and money to see large, important, inland
> European cities on a one-day cruise excursion, UNLESS there is no
> chance you will ever get back and it is your sole chance to ever see
> them. Rome, Florence, Berlin, Paris, London (unless you dock there!),
> Moscow . . . . Take a land trip.
>
> My advice for a Le Havre landing is a day in Rouen.
>
>
> Mason Barge
>
> "If this is coffee, please bring me some tea. If this is tea, please bring me some coffee."
> -- Abraham Lincoln

[Mason Barge]

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 22:46:18 -0400, Joe Keenan >
wrote:

>I'm not sure how I'm ever going to really duplicate the traditional cooking
>method, because I'm never going to be able to get one of those big,
>perfectly flat, griddles they use. I just use the biggest non-stick pan I
>have and make the crepes a little smaller than I would prefer

They only cost $30-40, if you are talking about a round crepe pan.

They are really nice for a lot of things, too, such as a lowfat fried
egg.

Hey Sue -- Christmas will be here before you know it!


Mason Barge

"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea. If this is tea, please bring me some coffee."
-- Abraham Lincoln

[Mason Barge]

On 19 Sep 2003 08:50:37 -0700, (Tom) wrote:

>My rule of thumb for Paris is to stay at least 100 miles from the city
>limits. I would have stayed on the ship and enjoyed a nice relaxing
>drink.

Haha, I think this is going to be a distinct minority opinion. Paris
is the #1 overseas tourist destination for North Americans, and I
would bet it's #1 in the world. And for good reason IMO.


Mason Barge

"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea. If this is tea, please bring me some coffee."
-- Abraham Lincoln

[Tom & Linda]

There was a guard in the room with the Michelangelo sculptures. But
they allowed touching, at least back then.

--Tom

Howard Garland wrote:
>
> Tom & Linda wrote:
>
> > To me, the real treasure in the Louvre is the 2 Michelangelo Sculptures
> > that are quietly hidden in the basement.
>
> Like the Met in NY, there are so many treasures in the Louvre that it's
> hard for me to pick my favorites. Even devoid of art and artifacts, the
> building itself is a treasure.
>
> The day we were there, I don't
> > even remember anyone else in the room with us. Back then (17 years ago
> > for our honeymoon) we were even allowed to touch the sculptures. You
> > could feel the muscles and veins carved by the artist into the Carerra
> > marble. Masterpieces by one of the top 3 geniuses in the history of the
> > world.
> >
> > --Tom
>
> Sculpture is meant to be touched, as any sculptor will tell you. I
> remember putting out my hand to touch Le Penseur, in the garden of the
> Rodin museum during one of our trips to Paris. Immediately, one of the
> touch police (as I call them) was by my side admonishing me. Here was
> this incredible statue, sitting outdoors in the elements for all those
> years and I couldn't touch it.
>
> In stark contrast, I was astonished during my first trip to the Brittish
> museum, where folks were actually encouraged to touch the rosetta stone.
>
> Howard

[Schaller MACAW]

The French !! Yuck !!!

[Cal Ford]

Would have to agree that it is quiote a hassle just to get to Paris from the
ship and you really are rushed to get even the minimum done. If you must however
just try to do a few of the more traditional monuments. The Louve is best done
when you have several days to spend in Paris and can pick and choose your
efforts. The primary advantage would be of course that you have seen the layout
of the city and would have a better idea where to stay and what to do on a
longer land based trip.

Just my opinion and wish I could get back for a few days this Fall for some
Christmas shopping but just don't see how I can work it in. Already cancelled a
Mexico Cruise just to stay even with the work load.

Cal Ford
Lido Deck Cruises




In article gate.org>, Darlene
Hinton says...
>
>Just came back from a European cruise which was awesome (and exhasting!)
>A little word of advice to anyone who takes an excursion to Paris in the
>future. Pick 2 and ONLY 2 places you want to see. Time is very limited.
>I tried to see the Eiffel Tower, Notre dame, and the Louvre. In hind
>sight I would have skipped Notre dame (which i did see)
>and spent that time at the Louvre (which I only saw the outside of) I
>was extremely disappointed and I hope this helps others from making the
>same mistake.
>
>
>--
>Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

[Cal Ford]

Absolutely, but after our last trip to Italy I am thinking that even 3 weeks is
not enough.

Cal Ford
Lido Deck Cruises


article >, JLeary256 says...
>
>>> I was extremely disappointed and I hope this helps others from making
>>> the same mistake.
>>
>>I would not even attempt Paris from a cruise. That is a city for a land
>>vacation.
>>
>
>
>
>I absolutely agree. I have toured Europe many times and always with flying in
>and staying a couple weeks (husband fluent German). A cruise just doesn't cut
>it.

[Colin McGARRY]

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 04:12:29 +0000 (UTC), "Darlene Hinton"
> wrote:

>Just came back from a European cruise which was awesome (and
exhasting!)
>A little word of advice to anyone who takes an excursion to Paris in
the
>future. Pick 2 and ONLY 2 places you want to see. Time is very
limited.
>I tried to see the Eiffel Tower, Notre dame, and the Louvre. In hind
>sight I would have skipped Notre dame (which i did see)

Paris is obviuously a draw for anyoine on a stop at Le Havre but it's
a long way there and back.

There are many sites to visit in Normandy which can be visited in a
relaxed way.
Rouen
Honfleur - Deuville
Fecamp
Caen -bayeux
The D Day landing beaches

And more relaxing than a bus tour is a personnal guide.
For three or more people it's no more expensive than a bus tour.

www.cpmac.com/normandy.html


peterann2 (at) yahoo.fr

[Jenn]

In article >,
(Schaller MACAW) wrote:

> The French !! Yuck !!!
>

yeah -- a country whose leaders actually more or less do what the
people want --

myself - I like buying my cheese from a democracy

[TBird]

>The French !! Yuck !!!

Yeesh - some of the kindest people I've met were in Paris.

A mother who couldn't speak English, and my French was too poor, but she
managed to get me directions anyway.

An old gentlemen discovering myself and new husband lost outside a closed Metro
line, who used our map to communicate with us, then lead us by the elbow to an
alternate route. We hadn't even asked for help!

The crazy traffic around the Arch.

The view from the Tower at night....

Versailles..... wow.....

TBird <----- Franco-phile
~~~~~~~
One of the Four Horsewomen of the ATH Gutter

[Mike]

>The French !! Yuck !!!
>

He is an equal opportunity loose cannon. This is the guy who called the Royal
Princess a "rust bucket".

Mike

[Diva]

What a stupid comment.


"Schaller MACAW" > wrote in message =
...
The French !! Yuck !!!

[Diva]

A friend of mine from Aix en Provence took a day off from work,flew up =
to Paris and rented a car on the one day I would be there in order to =
show me around the city -- just about one of the nicest people I know. =
EVERYONE was nice and friendly to me when I was there. It's really just =
plain silly (and ignorant) to condemn an entire country full of people. =



"TBird" > wrote in message =
...
>The French !! Yuck !!!

Yeesh - some of the kindest people I've met were in Paris.

A mother who couldn't speak English, and my French was too poor, but she
managed to get me directions anyway.

An old gentlemen discovering myself and new husband lost outside a =
closed Metro
line, who used our map to communicate with us, then lead us by the elbow =
to an
alternate route. We hadn't even asked for help!

The crazy traffic around the Arch.

The view from the Tower at night....

Versailles..... wow.....

TBird <----- Franco-phile
~~~~~~~
One of the Four Horsewomen of the ATH Gutter

[Jeff Coudriet]

One of my very favorite places on earth...the Rodin museum. A quiet gem
of a place. When the roses are in bloom...even nicer.

Jeff



Howard Garland wrote:

> Sculpture is meant to be touched, as any sculptor will tell you. I
> remember putting out my hand to touch Le Penseur, in the garden of the
> Rodin museum during one of our trips to Paris.

[Jeff Coudriet]

When near Notre Dame, cross the bridge to the other island and get ice
cream at Berthillon! I never miss doing that.

Jeff



>
> in Paris, I would be inclined to skip the Eiffel [you can see if from
> everywhere anyway] and see Notre Dame and then repair to a sidewalk
> cafe, have coffee or an aperitif and watch the world go by -- maybe
> stroll along the Seine a bit. The louvre is a major undertaking -- well
> worth two or three full days -- and certainly less than 2 hours is not
> much worth doing.
>

[Schaller MACAW]

Yes,the french are so kind they all went on vacation in august & left
their elderly parents home to die ! (10,000 die in heat wave). They are
too cheap to buy A.C. ! They use their money for long , long ,
vacations !
BILL

[Howard Garland]

It sure is a gem and his sculptures are breathtaking.

Howard

Jeff Coudriet wrote:
> One of my very favorite places on earth...the Rodin museum. A quiet gem
> of a place. When the roses are in bloom...even nicer.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> Howard Garland wrote:
>
>
>>Sculpture is meant to be touched, as any sculptor will tell you. I
>>remember putting out my hand to touch Le Penseur, in the garden of the
>>Rodin museum during one of our trips to Paris.

[Howard Garland]

One one of our trips to Paris, Eileen and I has one of our most
memorable dinners on Saint Louis. The restaurant, which we have never
found again (neither of us can remember the name), was in a building
that was about 700 years old. We ordered our filet bleu and it was the
best steak either of us had/has ever had.

Howard

Jeff Coudriet wrote:

> When near Notre Dame, cross the bridge to the other island and get ice
> cream at Berthillon! I never miss doing that.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
>
>>in Paris, I would be inclined to skip the Eiffel [you can see if from
>>everywhere anyway] and see Notre Dame and then repair to a sidewalk
>>cafe, have coffee or an aperitif and watch the world go by -- maybe
>>stroll along the Seine a bit. The louvre is a major undertaking -- well
>>worth two or three full days -- and certainly less than 2 hours is not
>>much worth doing.
>>

[[email protected]]

Don't go!

[Bob Fusillo]

A famous old New Yorker cartoon showed a couple at the information desk
saying " Which way to the Mona Lisa? Quick, man, we're double parked."

rjf
"Michael Brennan" > wrote in message
m...
> Yes the Louvre is enormous. Made the mistake of trying to see the Mona
Lisa
> on the first Sunday of August last year, when museums are free. It was
> not a very pleasant experience. The musee D'Orsay on the other hand was
> wonderful, even with lots of crowds, I am referring to the 4th floor in
the
> Hall of the Impressionists.
>
> --mikeb
>
> In article >,
> Plasma > wrote:
> >Darlene,
> >
> >Maybe you did make the right decisions. You can see the Eiffel Tower and
> >Notre Dame in an hour or so each but the Louvre takes several hours just
to
> >survey the halls let alone really see anything. A full day is really
> >required at the Louvre.
> >
> >Mike
> >
> >"Darlene Hinton" > wrote in message
> >news:5b78b328216b42dc5bd1183ba29db1b7.51473@mygate .mailgate.org...
> >> Just came back from a European cruise which was awesome (and
exhasting!)
> >> A little word of advice to anyone who takes an excursion to Paris in
the
> >> future. Pick 2 and ONLY 2 places you want to see. Time is very limited.
> >> I tried to see the Eiffel Tower, Notre dame, and the Louvre. In hind
> >> sight I would have skipped Notre dame (which i did see)
> >> and spent that time at the Louvre (which I only saw the outside of) I
> >> was extremely disappointed and I hope this helps others from making the
> >> same mistake.
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
> >
> >
>
>

[Cal Ford]

Yes, a fantastic steak. Very similar to the way it is prepared in Florence. Of
course the cooking method is only part of the secret, you have to have a good
cut of meat to begin with.

In Sienna I had a chance to purchase one of the heated Marble slabs that they
serve this on and I said ..... Nah .... we will find another one later for less
......

Never did and when and if I ever get back to Sienna it will probably be gone.

Cal Ford
Lido Deck Cruises


In article >, Howard Garland says...
>
>One one of our trips to Paris, Eileen and I has one of our most
>memorable dinners on Saint Louis. The restaurant, which we have never
>found again (neither of us can remember the name), was in a building
>that was about 700 years old. We ordered our filet bleu and it was the
>best steak either of us had/has ever had.
>
>Howard
>
>Jeff Coudriet wrote:
>
>> When near Notre Dame, cross the bridge to the other island and get ice
>> cream at Berthillon! I never miss doing that.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>in Paris, I would be inclined to skip the Eiffel [you can see if from
>>>everywhere anyway] and see Notre Dame and then repair to a sidewalk
>>>cafe, have coffee or an aperitif and watch the world go by -- maybe
>>>stroll along the Seine a bit. The louvre is a major undertaking -- well
>>>worth two or three full days -- and certainly less than 2 hours is not
>>>much worth doing.
>>>
>

[Cal Ford]

Hi Jeff:
Am going nuts trying to finagle a short weekend shopping/touring/dining trip to
Paris this Fall. Will be sure to take some time to see Rodin close up this time.

Cal Ford
Lido Deck Cruises



In article >, Jeff Coudriet says...
>
>One of my very favorite places on earth...the Rodin museum. A quiet gem
>of a place. When the roses are in bloom...even nicer.
>
>Jeff
>
>
>
>Howard Garland wrote:
>
>> Sculpture is meant to be touched, as any sculptor will tell you. I
>> remember putting out my hand to touch Le Penseur, in the garden of the
>> Rodin museum during one of our trips to Paris.

[Jeff Coudriet]

Cal--

It's a very nice place to go visit. It's not so much the sculpture,
which is nice, but the place. I could see myself living in that house!
:) The Picasso museum in the Marais is worth a visit as well.

Jeff



Cal Ford wrote:
>
> Hi Jeff:
> Am going nuts trying to finagle a short weekend shopping/touring/dining trip to
> Paris this Fall. Will be sure to take some time to see Rodin close up this time.
>
> Cal Ford
> Lido Deck Cruises
>
> In article >, Jeff Coudriet says...
> >
> >One of my very favorite places on earth...the Rodin museum. A quiet gem
> >of a place. When the roses are in bloom...even nicer.
> >
> >Jeff
> >