Re: US Airways is predatory. My advice: Do not fly on US Airways.

[Hatunen]

On 9 Sep 2003 16:26:11 -0700, (Ray
Lozano) wrote:

>Hatunen > wrote in message >...
>>
>> Your screed does not make it clear just who required the
>> documents; was it the ariline or was it the destination country?
>> If the destination country, what, exactly, did you want the
>> airline to do and how are they responsible for it?
>
>Jamaica would have required the documents for entry.

Then if the tickets were denoted with Jamaica as their
destination the airline could do nothing about it. And since you
knew ahead of time this was a requirement and didn't bother to
verify the documents were in your possession until the night
before you were very remiss.

>The original
>itinerary took us from Dallas to Charlotte to Montego Bay. Perhaps we
>could have flown to Charlotte as American citizens, stayed in
>Charlotte at our expense until a family member could send us our birth
>certificates, then fly from Charlotte to Montego Bay.

Only if your tickets to Charlotte didn't show jamaica as your
ultimate destination. And, if you mean differetnt tickets, your
Jamaica tickets would not have survived.

> I would have
>been more than happy to pay US Airways any extra necessary for such an
>arrangement.
>
>> Would a passport have satisifed everyone?
>
>Yes, but a passport is not needed to enter Jamaica.

That's not what I asked.

>> When we're about to make an international flight we make sure all
>> our papers are in order at least a week before the flight, and
>> now you can see why.
>
>Naturally. I lined out everything days before our scheduled departure.
>I made the mistake of assuming our birth certificates were in our home
>files, used on an earlier trip to Mexico, but my wife had moved them
>to safe deposit, with the best of intentions, without my knowledge.
>Simple human error, but I am the wiser for it.

I gather your wife wasn't invovled in the trip planning.


************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

[Ray Lozano]

Hatunen > wrote in message >...
>
> Your screed does not make it clear just who required the
> documents; was it the ariline or was it the destination country?
> If the destination country, what, exactly, did you want the
> airline to do and how are they responsible for it?

Jamaica would have required the documents for entry. The original
itinerary took us from Dallas to Charlotte to Montego Bay. Perhaps we
could have flown to Charlotte as American citizens, stayed in
Charlotte at our expense until a family member could send us our birth
certificates, then fly from Charlotte to Montego Bay. I would have
been more than happy to pay US Airways any extra necessary for such an
arrangement.

> Would a passport have satisifed everyone?

Yes, but a passport is not needed to enter Jamaica.

> When we're about to make an international flight we make sure all
> our papers are in order at least a week before the flight, and
> now you can see why.

Naturally. I lined out everything days before our scheduled departure.
I made the mistake of assuming our birth certificates were in our home
files, used on an earlier trip to Mexico, but my wife had moved them
to safe deposit, with the best of intentions, without my knowledge.
Simple human error, but I am the wiser for it.

Best regards,
Ray Lozano
www.usairways.tv

[Bert Hyman]

In om
(Ray Lozano) wrote:

> Simple human error, but I am the wiser for it.

Then why did you start this thread?

--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN

[mrtravel]

Ray Lozano wrote:
> Hatunen > wrote in message >...
>
>>Your screed does not make it clear just who required the
>>documents; was it the ariline or was it the destination country?
>>If the destination country, what, exactly, did you want the
>>airline to do and how are they responsible for it?
>
>
> Jamaica would have required the documents for entry. The original
> itinerary took us from Dallas to Charlotte to Montego Bay. Perhaps we
> could have flown to Charlotte as American citizens, stayed in
> Charlotte at our expense until a family member could send us our birth
> certificates, then fly from Charlotte to Montego Bay. I would have
> been more than happy to pay US Airways any extra necessary for such an
> arrangement.
>

You wouldn't have needed to stay in Charlotte. You could have left on a
later flight, for money, from Dallas (on US). Then you would have kept
your return intact. The suggest to contact your TA was to reduce the
amount of money you would be out, but it seems you didn't do that.

[mrtravel]

Bert Hyman wrote:

> In om
> (Ray Lozano) wrote:
>
>
>>Simple human error, but I am the wiser for it.
>
>
> Then why did you start this thread?
>

He wanted an opinion of his chances on getting reimbursement of over
$4000 more he had to spend to fix his mistake.

[David Eduardo]

"Ray Lozano" > wrote in message
om...

> Naturally. I lined out everything days before our scheduled departure.
> I made the mistake of assuming our birth certificates were in our home
> files, used on an earlier trip to Mexico, but my wife had moved them
> to safe deposit, with the best of intentions, without my knowledge.
> Simple human error, but I am the wiser for it.

So why is the airline responsible for your egregious error?

[Jere Lull]

Ray Lozano wrote:

>Hatunen > wrote in message >...
>
>
>>When we're about to make an international flight we make sure all
>>our papers are in order at least a week before the flight, and
>>now you can see why.
>>
>>
>
>Naturally. I lined out everything days before our scheduled departure.
>
"days before"? Gosh, we're PACKED, have double checked our lists, taken
half the "stuff" out of our bags, and are ready to roll at least a week
before an international flight.

>I made the mistake of assuming our birth certificates were in our home
>files, used on an earlier trip to Mexico, but my wife had moved them
>to safe deposit, with the best of intentions, without my knowledge.
>
Standard comment about "ass-u-me".... In addition to your waiting to the
last minute, if you'd listened to rec.travel.caribbean and other
newsgroups, you'd have heard that while "raised seal" berth certs and
"government ID" are minimally acceptable, passports make transport
significantly easier, *particularly* when re-entering the US.

>Simple human error, but I am the wiser for it.
>
>
I echo the other comments: it was your errors, and your insistance, that
caused your troubles and extra costs.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

[Dave Proctor]

Whilst undoubtedly under the effects of alcohol, Bert Hyman
> wrote:

>In om
(Ray Lozano) wrote:
>
>> Simple human error, but I am the wiser for it.
>
>Then why did you start this thread?

Because he is an idiot.

=========

Dave

Don't Drink Drive....
It's A Laundry Detergent

[propp]

"mrtravel" > wrote in message
. ..
> Bert Hyman wrote:
>
> > In om
> > (Ray Lozano) wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Simple human error, but I am the wiser for it.
> >
> >
> > Then why did you start this thread?
> >
>
> He wanted an opinion of his chances on getting reimbursement of over
> $4000 more he had to spend to fix his mistake.
>

Hopefully his $4800 taught him some valuable lessons...

* you're not leaving the country w/o your documents
* you're not flying on the return leg of a RT ticket when you didn't board the
departure leg
* don't show up at the airport at 4am with your family all packed and ready,
when you know you can not fly
* don't panic but seek out and find those that can help and accommodate you

[Jim]

"Ray Lozano" > wrote in message
om...
> Hatunen > wrote in message
>...
> >
> > Your screed does not make it clear just who required the
> > documents; was it the ariline or was it the destination country?
> > If the destination country, what, exactly, did you want the
> > airline to do and how are they responsible for it?
>
> Jamaica would have required the documents for entry. The original
> itinerary took us from Dallas to Charlotte to Montego Bay. Perhaps we
> could have flown to Charlotte as American citizens, stayed in
> Charlotte at our expense until a family member could send us our birth
> certificates, then fly from Charlotte to Montego Bay. I would have
> been more than happy to pay US Airways any extra necessary for such an
> arrangement.


Gee, what you said! It is the requirement of Jamaica that you have these
documents. You didn't have them so why blame US Air for your mistake and for
them following the law?


>
> > Would a passport have satisifed everyone?
>
> Yes, but a passport is not needed to enter Jamaica.
>


Either a certified original birth certificate AND a government issued photo
ID is required OR a Passport. Passport is the intelligent thing to have.



> > When we're about to make an international flight we make sure all
> > our papers are in order at least a week before the flight, and
> > now you can see why.
>
> Naturally. I lined out everything days before our scheduled departure.
> I made the mistake of assuming our birth certificates were in our home
> files, used on an earlier trip to Mexico, but my wife had moved them
> to safe deposit, with the best of intentions, without my knowledge.
> Simple human error, but I am the wiser for it.
>
> Best regards,
> Ray Lozano

Now this is the only thing that you have written that is correct so take a
moment and read it again to yourself. YOU made the mistake and it is YOU
that is responsible and nobody else has any blame on them. They fulfilled
their part of the bargain, YOU didn't fulfill YOUR part. YOU are the one at
fault and YOU are the only one you can sue for failing to get you to your
ultimate location. Don't believe me, ask any attorney that has ever picked
up a book on torts.
Jim

[Bert Hyman]

(mrtravel) wrote in
:

> Bert Hyman wrote:
>
>> In om
>> (Ray Lozano) wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Simple human error, but I am the wiser for it.
>>
>>
>> Then why did you start this thread?
>>
>
> He wanted an opinion of his chances on getting reimbursement of
> over $4000 more he had to spend to fix his mistake.

Claiming that the airline is "predatory", warning people not to fly
on that airline and setting up a Web site to publicize your rants is
not how one asks for an opinion.

--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN |

[Yaofeng]

Bert Hyman > wrote in message >...
> (mrtravel) wrote in
> :
>
> > Bert Hyman wrote:
> >
> >> In om
> >> (Ray Lozano) wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Simple human error, but I am the wiser for it.
> >>
> >>
> >> Then why did you start this thread?
> >>
> >
> > He wanted an opinion of his chances on getting reimbursement of
> > over $4000 more he had to spend to fix his mistake.
>
> Claiming that the airline is "predatory", warning people not to fly
> on that airline and setting up a Web site to publicize your rants is
> not how one asks for an opinion.

We certainly hope Mr. Lozano would be wise enough take it down
following this long thread of discussions about his plight.

[Ray Lozano]

Bert Hyman > wrote in message >...
> (mrtravel) wrote in
> :
>
> > Bert Hyman wrote:
> >
> >> In om
> >> (Ray Lozano) wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Simple human error, but I am the wiser for it.
> >>
> >>
> >> Then why did you start this thread?
> >>
> >
> > He wanted an opinion of his chances on getting reimbursement of
> > over $4000 more he had to spend to fix his mistake.
>
> Claiming that the airline is "predatory", warning people not to fly
> on that airline and setting up a Web site to publicize your rants is
> not how one asks for an opinion.

To the best of my knowledge, I have never asked for an opinion. This
issue is about corporate behavior, specifically that of airlines,
which are subsidized by taxpayers and on which so many people depend.

Ray Lozano
www.usairways.tv

[mrtravel]

Ray Lozano wrote:
>
> To the best of my knowledge, I have never asked for an opinion. This
> issue is about corporate behavior, specifically that of airlines,
> which are subsidized by taxpayers and on which so many people depend.

Airlines have changed dramatically over the years.
What happened at US could have happened at any airline. Of course, it
won't happen at WN since there would be no problem with birth
certificates. I noted that you had praise for WN in a post in this or
another thread. However, it is important to note that the rules at WN
are more strict about standing by for a different flight if you have a
restricted ticket.