U.S. House votes to allow Cuban tourism

[Meghan Powers]

[Hmmm. Cuba has Castro and thugocracy. Yea, well the US has Bush and
idiocracy.]

------------
http://interestalert.com/brand/siteia.shtml?Story=st/sn/09100000aaa04294.upi&Sys=rmmiller&Fid=NATIONAL&Type=News&Filter=National%20News

U.S. House votes to allow Cuban tourism

WASHINGTON, Sept. 10 (UPI) -- The House ignored GOP opposition and
voted Wednesday to approve an amendment allowing American tourists to
travel to Cuba.

Supporters of the amendment, which was offered by Rep. Jeff Flake,
R-Ariz., said the proposal would advance freedom in the communist
nation. Opponents said it would only bolster Fidel Castro's
dictatorship.

The amendment, attached to the Treasury and Transportation Departments
appropriations bill, passed 227-188.

CNSnews.com said House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, issued a
statement saying: "This amendment would reward injustice. There is no
such thing as a 'Cuban tourism industry.' There is only Fidel Castro
and his thugocracy."

Supporters, however, told CNSnews.com the 40-year attempt to isolate
the communist nation both politically and economically has failed and
lifting the U.S. travel ban is the first step in changing that policy.

Current law allows Americans to visit Cuba but only with special U.S.
government approval. President Bush has said he will veto the
appropriations bill if it contains the Cuban travel amendment.

[mrtravel]

Meghan Powers wrote:
>
> CNSnews.com said House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, issued a
> statement saying: "This amendment would reward injustice. There is no
> such thing as a 'Cuban tourism industry.' There is only Fidel Castro
> and his thugocracy."

Right.. Like Cuba is the only country with a lack of democracy
Of course there is a tourism industry in Cuba
I would go if just to look at the old cars.

[Mark Hewitt]

"Meghan Powers" > wrote in message
...
>
> CNSnews.com said House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, issued a
> statement saying: "This amendment would reward injustice. There is no
> such thing as a 'Cuban tourism industry.' There is only Fidel Castro
> and his thugocracy."

Hmm. If I walk down to our high street and into the travel agents I can buy
a package holiday deal to Cuba.. Sounds like tourism to me!

[Casey]

> The House ignored GOP opposition and voted Wednesday to
> approve an amendment allowing American tourists to travel to
> Cuba.

The House actually showed some independence?

> President Bush has said he will veto the appropriations bill if it
> contains the Cuban travel amendment.

Yet another reason to throw this moron out of office in 2004.
It is not the government's business to interfere with Americans
wanting to visit Cuba. Cuba is not a dangerous place, so the
government should butt out.


Casey

[Miguel Cruz]

Casey > wrote:
>> The House ignored GOP opposition and voted Wednesday to
>> approve an amendment allowing American tourists to travel to
>> Cuba.
>
> The House actually showed some independence?

They passed this last year too. Never made it anywhere.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Site remodeled 10-Sept-2003: Hundreds of new photos, easier navigation.

[Jenn]

In article >,
(Miguel Cruz) wrote:

> Casey > wrote:
> >> The House ignored GOP opposition and voted Wednesday to
> >> approve an amendment allowing American tourists to travel to
> >> Cuba.
> >
> > The House actually showed some independence?
>
> They passed this last year too. Never made it anywhere.
>
> miguel


if Cuba had been opened to tourism 30 years ago -- it would probably be
a democracy today -- this of course may not be what the exiles want --

[Simon Elliott]

Jenn > writes
>if Cuba had been opened to tourism 30 years ago -- it would probably be
>a democracy today -- this of course may not be what the exiles want --

Cuba is open to tourism, from everywhere except the US.
--
Simon Elliott
http://www.ctsn.co.uk/

[me]

"Mark Hewitt" > wrote in message >...
> "Meghan Powers" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > CNSnews.com said House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, issued a
> > statement saying: "This amendment would reward injustice. There is no
> > such thing as a 'Cuban tourism industry.' There is only Fidel Castro
> > and his thugocracy."
>
> Hmm. If I walk down to our high street and into the travel agents I can buy
> a package holiday deal to Cuba.. Sounds like tourism to me!

Well, I'm no supporter of DeLay, and I'm kinda wishy washy on the
whole trade with Cuba thang anyway. But, his real point is that,
like virtually any industry in Cuba, it is effectively all "owned"
by Castro. He has his fingers in most everything. This is only
slightly different from a country which taxes everthing. The
difference being predominately in the "patronage" aspect of the
jobs associated with it. Now, it is true, that there is a
"gray market" associated with tourism in Cuba, and that in and
of itself may be a good thing.

[Casey]

> > if Cuba had been opened to tourism 30 years ago -- it would
> > probably be a democracy today -- this of course may not be
> what the exiles want --
>
> Cuba is open to tourism, from everywhere except the US.

Very true. I think it will require the death of Castro to free Cuba,
just like the death of Stalin radically changed the USSR, albeit
not as radical as 1991.


Casey

[Mike Schumann]

It's interesting that anyone with family in Cuba is free to go there. If
everyone was prohibited from going there, regardless of family connections,
you'd hear some real screaming from some of the most vocal opponents to
tourism in the Cuban exile community, who want to take away our rights to
travel freely anywhere in the world, while they preserve their rights to
visit their families and send them money, which is where Castro is getting
the biggest chunk of his foreign exchange.

Mike Schumann

"Simon Elliott" > wrote in message
...
> Jenn > writes
> >if Cuba had been opened to tourism 30 years ago -- it would probably be
> >a democracy today -- this of course may not be what the exiles want --
>
> Cuba is open to tourism, from everywhere except the US.
> --
> Simon Elliott
> http://www.ctsn.co.uk/
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Miguel Cruz]

Mike Schumann > wrote:
> It's interesting that anyone with family in Cuba is free to go there. If
> everyone was prohibited from going there, regardless of family
> connections, you'd hear some real screaming from some of the most vocal
> opponents to tourism in the Cuban exile community, who want to take away
> our rights to travel freely anywhere in the world, while they preserve
> their rights to visit their families and send them money, which is where
> Castro is getting the biggest chunk of his foreign exchange.

I always figured they knew a good thing and happened on a scheme to keep it
to themselves.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Site remodeled 10-Sept-2003: Hundreds of new photos, easier navigation.

[Simon Elliott]

Casey > writes
>> > if Cuba had been opened to tourism 30 years ago -- it would
>> > probably be a democracy today -- this of course may not be
>> what the exiles want --
>>
>> Cuba is open to tourism, from everywhere except the US.
>
>Very true. I think it will require the death of Castro to free Cuba,
>just like the death of Stalin radically changed the USSR, albeit
>not as radical as 1991.

I hope you're correct in your suggestion that the death of Castro will
improve things in Cuba. There are plenty of scenarios where life won't
improve at all (and could even get worse) for most ordinary Cubans.

IMHO one reason that tourism hasn't caused bigger changes in Cuba is the
subtle and not-so-subtle apartheid where tourists are kept apart from
the realities facing ordinary Cubans, especially outside Havana. In the
large holiday resorts the only Cubans you'll meet are behind the bar.
It's possible to visit Cuba and remain in your tourist bubble.

It takes a little effort and a little knowledge of Spanish to get out
there and meet ordinary Cubans. But it's well worth it. In spite of the
various little local difficulties, they seem to be a fabulous bunch of
people who don't let things get them down!

--
Simon Elliott
http://www.ctsn.co.uk/

[mrtravel]

Simon Elliott wrote:
> Casey > writes
>
>>>>if Cuba had been opened to tourism 30 years ago -- it would
>>>>probably be a democracy today -- this of course may not be
>>>
>>>what the exiles want --
>>>
>>>Cuba is open to tourism, from everywhere except the US.
>>
>>Very true. I think it will require the death of Castro to free Cuba,
>>just like the death of Stalin radically changed the USSR, albeit
>>not as radical as 1991.
>
>
> I hope you're correct in your suggestion that the death of Castro will
> improve things in Cuba.

Yeah, like how the US thought that Cuba would be better with Castro than
with Batista.

[Yaofeng]

"Casey" > wrote in message et>...
> > > if Cuba had been opened to tourism 30 years ago -- it would
> > > probably be a democracy today -- this of course may not be
> > what the exiles want --
> >
> > Cuba is open to tourism, from everywhere except the US.
>
> Very true. I think it will require the death of Castro to free Cuba,
> just like the death of Stalin radically changed the USSR, albeit
> not as radical as 1991.
>
>
> Casey

Free Cuba from what? All I want is a free Cuba (from Uncle Sam) for us to visit.

[stephen]

Meghan Powers > wrote:

>U.S. House votes to allow Cuban tourism
>
>Current law allows Americans to visit Cuba but only with special U.S.
>government approval. President Bush has said he will veto the
>appropriations bill if it contains the Cuban travel amendment.

Good for Bush Baby!

German, French, British and Canadian tourists all agree that we need
a holiday destination that is free of 'mericans. :)

--
Stephen

There were no weapons of mass destruction, just words of mass deception.

[Meghan Powers]

stephen wrote:
>
> Meghan Powers > wrote:
>
> >U.S. House votes to allow Cuban tourism
> >
> > Current law allows Americans to visit Cuba but only with
> > special U.S. government approval. President Bush has said
> > he will veto the appropriations bill if it contains the Cuban
> > travel amendment.
>
> Good for Bush Baby!
>
> German, French, British and Canadian tourists all agree that we need
> a holiday destination that is free of 'mericans. :)

I totally agree with that. Yes, this embargo the US has put on Cuba
for the past 40 years is nuts. Yes, it's unexplainable how a country
that claims to be the bastion of freedom and liberty of the known
universe (ie the USA) can block it's citizens from travelling to
certain countries. Yes it's created a nice side effect of a tropical
vacation destination that's probably got more supply than demand. Yes
it points out why the US invaded iraq -> they didn't like the way that
Saddam was shaping up to be the Castro of the middle east. Saddam
already had 10 years of sanctions under his belt, and with support for
the continuance of the sanctions beginning to decline, and with Iraq
just a little too far away from the US to exert control, the Bush
neo-cons in their thinking had no choice but to assassinate Saddam (or
spend BILLIONS trying) just like the US tried to do to Castro.

[TMOliver]

(Miguel Cruz) vented spleen or mostly mumbled...

> Mike Schumann > wrote:
>> It's interesting that anyone with family in Cuba is free to go there.
>> If everyone was prohibited from going there, regardless of family
>> connections, you'd hear some real screaming from some of the most
>> vocal opponents to tourism in the Cuban exile community, who want to
>> take away our rights to travel freely anywhere in the world, while
>> they preserve their rights to visit their families and send them
>> money, which is where Castro is getting the biggest chunk of his
>> foreign exchange.
>
> I always figured they knew a good thing and happened on a scheme to
> keep it to themselves.

......you may be right, and a big sticking point, postCastro, will be the
claims for expropriated property/assets, an issue which will make the
current tourist ban look like small potatoes. I'm familiar with the case
of a local family who are waiting to file a claim against a well known EU
country which apparently "purchased" from the current government a modest
downtown lot in Havana which the local family has fairly good documentation
of long ownership and no exercise of 'eminent domain' under Cuban law by
the Castro government. Whatever government takes over or when, will be
less important than some mutually agreeable "Foreign Claims Act" passed by
both the USCongress and the Cubans. There are some existing judgements on
the federal books, IIRC, from back in the 60s in which accrued interest
has sent the awards through the roof.

TMO

[stephen]

Simon Elliott > wrote:

>IMHO one reason that tourism hasn't caused bigger changes in Cuba is the
>subtle and not-so-subtle apartheid where tourists are kept apart from
>the realities facing ordinary Cubans, especially outside Havana. In the
>large holiday resorts the only Cubans you'll meet are behind the bar.
>It's possible to visit Cuba and remain in your tourist bubble.

We were in a resort in the south east, a long way from Havana. About
an hour from Santiago.

Horse and buggy rides through the nearby village were common. We were
taken inside the home of the driver. On the outside it was a non-descript
shack. On the inside, it very well done. Tiled bathroom and kitchen.

He had a TV, VCR and many dozen English videos. The VCR and videos were
gifts from returning tourists. The Cubans place a high value on
being able to speak English. I presume they believe it is an economic
advantage, and will become more so after Castro dies.

Any Cuban interacting with tourists is very well off. The average wage
was US$13, and a typical tip was a dollar. I think the maids did very
well. I have no idea if they were allowed to keep their tips.

The prostitutes were discrete, young and attractive. At $40 plus ten
to rent a room, they could be very choosy in who they saw. They seemed
to like the young Russian men (from Canada) :)

--
Stephen

Did Colin Powell know he was lying to the United Nations and US allies?

[maryanne kehoe]

It's about American's FREEDOM TO TRAVEL. Period.

[stephen]

(maryanne kehoe) wrote:
>It's about American's FREEDOM TO TRAVEL. Period.

I thought American's had traded freedom for security?

--
Stephen

There were no weapons of mass destruction, just words of mass deception.

[mrtravel]

stephen wrote:

> (maryanne kehoe) wrote:
>
>>It's about American's FREEDOM TO TRAVEL. Period.
>
>
> I thought American's had traded freedom for security?

Not all of it, yet