How will the color coding scheme work?

[viktor]

Does anyone know what criteria will be used for the proposed color
coding scheme for identifying risky air passengers?

Anyone have a complete list of what will make someone a "yellow" or a
"red"?

I have heard that somehow credit ratings will be factored in. Someone
with maxed out credit cards is considered a terrorist? That seems
ludicrous and too wide in scope; given the average amount of credit
card debt nowadays, too many people would get flagged.

I've also heard that US criminal records will be used. While this
makes some sense, the fact is that the vast majority of US criminals
(domestic) are not interested in the airline. They just want to go
from Point A to Point B to meet with other criminals, sell contraband,
etc. Would you rather sit next to John Gotti with a mile-long record
on the plane or next to an Islamic extremist who has only been in the
country for less than a year and thus has no arrest record at all?

Wouldn't it make more sense to issue "Red" to someone who shows up on
CIA/Interpol terrorist lists? Is that how it's going to be done? I
would hope so.

Interested in any info anyone has.

[Frank F. Matthews]

There's a guy named Bill who will constitute BLACK and used to fly a lot.

A few hundred of us other troublemakers will be RED.

Anyone known to have personally constructed or set off a bomb will be
YELLOW.

Any associates of the above will bee CHARTREUSE (they haven't figured
out that is two colors).

and so on.

FFM

viktor wrote:

> Does anyone know what criteria will be used for the proposed color
> coding scheme for identifying risky air passengers?
>
> Anyone have a complete list of what will make someone a "yellow" or a
> "red"?
>
> I have heard that somehow credit ratings will be factored in. Someone
> with maxed out credit cards is considered a terrorist? That seems
> ludicrous and too wide in scope; given the average amount of credit
> card debt nowadays, too many people would get flagged.
>
> I've also heard that US criminal records will be used. While this
> makes some sense, the fact is that the vast majority of US criminals
> (domestic) are not interested in the airline. They just want to go
> from Point A to Point B to meet with other criminals, sell contraband,
> etc. Would you rather sit next to John Gotti with a mile-long record
> on the plane or next to an Islamic extremist who has only been in the
> country for less than a year and thus has no arrest record at all?
>
> Wouldn't it make more sense to issue "Red" to someone who shows up on
> CIA/Interpol terrorist lists? Is that how it's going to be done? I
> would hope so.
>
> Interested in any info anyone has.

[Peter L]

Are we all supposed to wear a color star on our lapel to signal our color
codes?

"Frank F. Matthews" > wrote in message
...
> There's a guy named Bill who will constitute BLACK and used to fly a lot.
>
> A few hundred of us other troublemakers will be RED.
>
> Anyone known to have personally constructed or set off a bomb will be
> YELLOW.
>
> Any associates of the above will bee CHARTREUSE (they haven't figured
> out that is two colors).
>
> and so on.
>
> FFM
>
> viktor wrote:
>
> > Does anyone know what criteria will be used for the proposed color
> > coding scheme for identifying risky air passengers?
> >
> > Anyone have a complete list of what will make someone a "yellow" or a
> > "red"?
> >
> > I have heard that somehow credit ratings will be factored in. Someone
> > with maxed out credit cards is considered a terrorist? That seems
> > ludicrous and too wide in scope; given the average amount of credit
> > card debt nowadays, too many people would get flagged.
> >
> > I've also heard that US criminal records will be used. While this
> > makes some sense, the fact is that the vast majority of US criminals
> > (domestic) are not interested in the airline. They just want to go
> > from Point A to Point B to meet with other criminals, sell contraband,
> > etc. Would you rather sit next to John Gotti with a mile-long record
> > on the plane or next to an Islamic extremist who has only been in the
> > country for less than a year and thus has no arrest record at all?
> >
> > Wouldn't it make more sense to issue "Red" to someone who shows up on
> > CIA/Interpol terrorist lists? Is that how it's going to be done? I
> > would hope so.
> >
> > Interested in any info anyone has.
>

[mrtravel]

Peter L wrote:
> Are we all supposed to wear a color star on our lapel to signal our color
> codes?

Yes, but it must be a 6 pointed star.
After all, big brother needs to know who the ones "outside the box" are.

[Yaofeng]

mrtravel > wrote in message >...
> Peter L wrote:
> > Are we all supposed to wear a color star on our lapel to signal our color
> > codes?
>
> Yes, but it must be a 6 pointed star.
> After all, big brother needs to know who the ones "outside the box" are.

And colored yellow too. Chinese, othe other hand, will be handed a
big five point red star. Japanese will be given a patch with a red
ball, etc...

But realistically, if there is such a scheme, it invariably boils down
to race. Or how you look to the security personnel. Sad to say in
this post 9/11 day and age people of Arabic decent will suffer. And
so do all those from muslim and borderline muslim countries. Because
they will be judged by a different set of criteria for sucurity
purposes. Has anyone forgotten the Japanese internment camps during
WWII? Or the recent racial profiling by NJ State Troopers?

Let's keep the subject matter to air travel...

[Boxall's Accommodation]

(viktor) wrote in message >...

> Would you rather sit next to John Gotti with a mile-long record
> on the plane or next to an Islamic extremist who has only been in the
> country for less than a year and thus has no arrest record at all?
>

For me it's a close call -- If I was next John Gotti I would be dead
in Saint John's cemetery too so I think I'll have to take my chances
with the Islamic extremist.

[Rojosh]

"Yaofeng" > wrote in message
om...
> mrtravel > wrote in message
>...
> > Peter L wrote:
> > > Are we all supposed to wear a color star on our lapel to signal our
color
> > > codes?
> >
> > Yes, but it must be a 6 pointed star.
> > After all, big brother needs to know who the ones "outside the box" are.
>
> And colored yellow too. Chinese, othe other hand, will be handed a
> big five point red star. Japanese will be given a patch with a red
> ball, etc...
>
> But realistically, if there is such a scheme, it invariably boils down
> to race. Or how you look to the security personnel. Sad to say in
> this post 9/11 day and age people of Arabic decent will suffer. And
> so do all those from muslim and borderline muslim countries. Because
> they will be judged by a different set of criteria for sucurity
> purposes.

This is true but then again, white Christians generally tend to not be Al
Qieda (however you spell that **** group's name) members. Bin Laden doesn't
seem to want Jews either. Let's see, who flew planes into buildings and the
ground? Not orientals, not black people, not above mentioned whites.... that
leaves Arab Muslims doesn't it? Now if you're looking for likely terrorists
by religion, whom do you look to? Not Buhdists, Hindus, (the list goes on
to the obvious) etc. That leaves Muslims. We use logic and again we come to
Arab Muslims as the most like to do something sick don't we? Remember how
they were dancing in the streets 9/11 in the middle East? That took any last
symphany I had for any of em totally away. Once again, sorry but those are
facts as well as my personal feelings. Defend them if you will, I certainly
won't



>Has anyone forgotten the Japanese internment camps during
> WWII? Or the recent racial profiling by NJ State Troopers?
>

How is that relavent to what's going on today? No one here has been
interred. As to profiling, who the **** would you look at? If the shoe
fits...


> Let's keep the subject matter to air travel...

Color coding is the subject and it is a "matter" pertaining to air travel.
Safety is an issue for all of us and again, who was it who killed all of the
air travels (among all of the others) on 9/11? Any air traveler should be
prepared to rush any future high jacker and give up their life to save
others if necessary. We can no longer be passive travelers.
Yankee Bob
Flush Bush in 2004

[Randy Hudson]

In article >,
viktor > wrote:

> Anyone have a complete list of what will make someone a "yellow" or a
> "red"?
>
> I have heard that somehow credit ratings will be factored in. Someone
> with maxed out credit cards is considered a terrorist? That seems
> ludicrous and too wide in scope; given the average amount of credit
> card debt nowadays, too many people would get flagged.
>
> Wouldn't it make more sense to issue "Red" to someone who shows up on
> CIA/Interpol terrorist lists? Is that how it's going to be done? I
> would hope so.

In the April 2003 issue of Mens Journal, on page 89, there is an analysis of
how the data given in making the 9/11 airline reservations could have been
used in theory to prevent the plot from succeeding. That provides the
justification for the CAPPS-II data-mining proposal.

Two of the hijackers used names that were on immigration/intelligence lists.
All the other hijackers used addresses, phone numbers, credit cards, and/or
frequent flyer numbers (!) that were shared either with those two "known
terrorists" or with the hijackers linked to those known terrorists.

So, the point of mining the credit card data isn't to see whether the credit
is maxed out; it's to see whether the credit card number, name, address,
and/or phone number provide any "interesting" linkages.

Unfortunately, it's mostly an expensive exercise in barn-door-locking.
Expensive not just in implementation cost, but in anti-terrorist resources,
in privacy, and in travellers' time.

--
Randy Hudson

[Yaofeng]

"Rojosh" > wrote in message >...
> "Yaofeng" > wrote in message
> om...
> > mrtravel > wrote in message
> >...
> > > Peter L wrote:
> > > > Are we all supposed to wear a color star on our lapel to signal our
> color
> > > > codes?
> > >
> > > Yes, but it must be a 6 pointed star.
> > > After all, big brother needs to know who the ones "outside the box" are.
> >
> > And colored yellow too. Chinese, othe other hand, will be handed a
> > big five point red star. Japanese will be given a patch with a red
> > ball, etc...
> >
> > But realistically, if there is such a scheme, it invariably boils down
> > to race. Or how you look to the security personnel. Sad to say in
> > this post 9/11 day and age people of Arabic decent will suffer. And
> > so do all those from muslim and borderline muslim countries. Because
> > they will be judged by a different set of criteria for sucurity
> > purposes.
>
> This is true but then again, white Christians generally tend to not be Al
> Qieda (however you spell that **** group's name) members. Bin Laden doesn't
> seem to want Jews either. Let's see, who flew planes into buildings and the
> ground? Not orientals, not black people, not above mentioned whites.... that
> leaves Arab Muslims doesn't it? Now if you're looking for likely terrorists
> by religion, whom do you look to? Not Buhdists, Hindus, (the list goes on
> to the obvious) etc. That leaves Muslims. We use logic and again we come to
> Arab Muslims as the most like to do something sick don't we? Remember how
> they were dancing in the streets 9/11 in the middle East? That took any last
> symphany I had for any of em totally away. Once again, sorry but those are
> facts as well as my personal feelings. Defend them if you will, I certainly
> won't
>
>
>
> >Has anyone forgotten the Japanese internment camps during
> > WWII? Or the recent racial profiling by NJ State Troopers?
> >
>
> How is that relavent to what's going on today? No one here has been
> interred. As to profiling, who the **** would you look at? If the shoe
> fits...
>
>

Can you imagine yourself being an American of Middle East decent,
maybe even born in this country, Muslim, law abiding, abhor the 9/11
terrorist act just like the rest of us do and getting special
treatment every where you go? I know you are going to say you are not
and you don't give a sh*t how they feel.

> > Let's keep the subject matter to air travel...
>
> Color coding is the subject and it is a "matter" pertaining to air travel.
> Safety is an issue for all of us and again, who was it who killed all of the
> air travels (among all of the others) on 9/11? Any air traveler should be
> prepared to rush any future high jacker and give up their life to save
> others if necessary. We can no longer be passive travelers.
> Yankee Bob

> Flush Bush in 2004

I am all for it.

[Ribant4]

(snip)
>Can you imagine yourself being an American of Middle East decent,
>maybe even born in this country, Muslim, law abiding, abhor the 9/11
>terrorist act just like the rest of us do and getting special
>treatment every where you go? I know you are going to say you are not
>and you don't give a sh*t how they feel.
>
(snip)

Why are you assuming racial profiling. What the system will look for is
something linking a person to a known terrorist group
or someone on a watch list.

[mrtravel]

Ribant4 wrote:

> (snip)
>
>>Can you imagine yourself being an American of Middle East decent,
>>maybe even born in this country, Muslim, law abiding, abhor the 9/11
>>terrorist act just like the rest of us do and getting special
>>treatment every where you go? I know you are going to say you are not
>>and you don't give a sh*t how they feel.
>>
>
> (snip)
>
> Why are you assuming racial profiling.

History... Manzanar, Warsaw Ghetto, gassing, slavery, aparheid

What the system will look for is
> something linking a person to a known terrorist group
> or someone on a watch list.

Yeah, like my credit history or what library books I have checked out.
Am I going to regret checking our Mein Kampf in high school?
They might even want to look at my Netflix account.

[stephen]

(viktor) wrote:

>Does anyone know what criteria will be used for the proposed color
>coding scheme for identifying risky air passengers?

>I've also heard that US criminal records will be used.

Gee..... good thing the President has Air Force One.

--
Stephen

There were no weapons of mass destruction, just words of mass deception.

[Frank F. Matthews]

Rojosh wrote:
> "Yaofeng" > wrote in message
> om...
>
>>mrtravel > wrote in message
> >...
>>>Peter L wrote:
>>>>Are we all supposed to wear a color star on our lapel to signal our color
>>>>codes?

>>>Yes, but it must be a 6 pointed star.
>>>After all, big brother needs to know who the ones "outside the box" are.
>>And colored yellow too. Chinese, othe other hand, will be handed a
>>big five point red star. Japanese will be given a patch with a red
>>ball, etc...
>>But realistically, if there is such a scheme, it invariably boils down
>>to race. Or how you look to the security personnel. Sad to say in
>>this post 9/11 day and age people of Arabic decent will suffer. And
>>so do all those from muslim and borderline muslim countries. Because
>>they will be judged by a different set of criteria for sucurity
>>purposes.

> This is true but then again, white Christians generally tend to not be Al
> Qieda (however you spell that **** group's name) members. Bin Laden doesn't
> seem to want Jews either. Let's see, who flew planes into buildings and the
> ground? Not orientals, not black people, not above mentioned whites.... that
> leaves Arab Muslims doesn't it? Now if you're looking for likely terrorists
> by religion, whom do you look to? Not Buhdists, Hindus, (the list goes on
> to the obvious) etc. That leaves Muslims. We use logic and again we come to
> Arab Muslims as the most like to do something sick don't we? Remember how
> they were dancing in the streets 9/11 in the middle East? That took any last
> symphany I had for any of em totally away. Once again, sorry but those are
> facts as well as my personal feelings. Defend them if you will, I certainly
> won't

>>Has anyone forgotten the Japanese internment camps during
>>WWII? Or the recent racial profiling by NJ State Troopers?

> How is that relavent to what's going on today? No one here has been
> interred. As to profiling, who the **** would you look at? If the shoe
> fits...

>>Let's keep the subject matter to air travel...

> Color coding is the subject and it is a "matter" pertaining to air travel.
> Safety is an issue for all of us and again, who was it who killed all of the
> air travels (among all of the others) on 9/11? Any air traveler should be
> prepared to rush any future high jacker and give up their life to save
> others if necessary. We can no longer be passive travelers.
> Yankee Bob Flush Bush in 2004

Then again color coding needs to be expanded. Local bombers tend to be
evangelical christians so they need identification as well. Can we let
them fly all over bombing here and there when they land? FFM