Madness at RDU - Trip Report

[The Bill Mattocks]

Well, I've weathered the hurricane, which swept through Wilson, North
Carolina last Thursday, bringing much rain and wind, but little in the
way of actual fireworks.

I was scheduled to leave Raleigh-Durham Internation Airport (RDU) at
7:50 on HP Flt 765. I was aware that many had been stranded at RDU
since their flights on Thursday, and even Friday had been troubled,
but I thought that the problems would have been sorted by Saturday
morning.

I left Wilson at 3:30 a.m. and drove to Raleigh, which was completely
uneventful, except for fighting to stay awake. Got my rental car
gassed up and turned in, took the Hertz shuttle to the airport.
Arrived at the HP desk at about 5:15.

HP didn't open until 5:30, which actually meant 5:45. I noted that
they only have three scheduled departing flights per day out of RDU -
two to PHX, one to Las Vegas. If I had missed my 7:50 flight, I'd be
stuck until 4:40 p.m. Not a good thing, since I have to fly BACK to
RDU from ABQ at 9:00 a.m. Sunday morning.

The checkin process, once the HP employees showed up, went very
quickly. I note that HP has one self-service kiosk at RDU, and I was
encouraged to use it. It didn't work for me. It also did not work
for the gentleman behind me, who was a young man in the military who
did not possess any credit cards to shove into the gaping maw of the
beast.

I checked one bag, and had to ask the lady at the counter for my
baggage claim, as she neglected to staple it to my ticket jacket. I
am surprised I was awake enough to even notice.

I was asked if I was able to be 'flexible' in my travel plans, as the
HP lady said that they were still clearing out stragglers from the
hurricane. I replied that I was NOT flexible, but thanks for asking.
Yeah, that's what I want, to get home at 6:00 a.m. on Sunday when I
have to fly out again at 9:00 a.m. Ah, no.

Fortunately, I was upgraded for free once again to FC on the Airbus
319 for the 4.5 hour flight to PHX. I also got an upgrade to FC for
the 737 from PHX to ABQ, but the important one was the long haul. I
was tired, but happy.

The security line was a bit long, maybe 20 minutes. I took my shoes
and belt off ahead of time as usual, pulled out my laptop computer,
and donned my prophylactic socks that I wear OVER my normal socks,
since I hate filthy airport floors.

Still, once I got to the TSA folks, they were efficient and processed
me quickly. I got redressed and was delighted to find a bar inside
the security zone that allowed smoking. Cigarettes and coffee with
raw bloody eyes, watching the mist clear over the field and runways of
the aiport. Bliss.

When HP started boarding the aircraft, I was able to board early with
the Group 1 folks, so I didn't notice that there was trouble brewing
in the back of the plane. It seems some folks were on the plane
WITHOUT BOARDING PASSES and they were just sitting in any old seat,
which caused consternation among those who had boarding passes for
those particular seats. Much mayhem and running about ensued,
complete with raised voices and implied threats of lawsuits and such
things.

Eventually, things started to settle down, and a bunch of people
exited the plane. A late arrival in FC told the rest of us that the
HP lady doing the boarding had been 'overwhelmed' by a 'bum's rush' at
the jetway. Apparently, some of the folks who had been waiting three
days to get out of RDU were sick and tired of being on standby, and
they just all rushed the jetway at once and boarded the plane. There
were about 15 of them in all. Of course, the plane was overbooked
anyway, so there were no places where they could sit and avoid
detection, so they eventually all were found and booted off the plane.
One hid in the bathroom in the back of the plane until the front door
was closed and then came out, but they just opened the door again and
tossed him out.

I felt sorry for those left behind. Since the hurricane was the
reason for the cancelled flights, it was 'weather related' and
therefore, apparently HP had not been putting these people up in
hotels, feeding them, or anything else for them, and again, some of
them had been in the airport since Thursday. Yikes. I'd have been
tempted to do something drastic as well.

It appears that no one got arrested - the HP people seemed to take it
with a shrug and a smile. However, I was a bit surprised that the
plane was not forced to empty out and reboard, or that we were not put
through security again, or something like that. I mean, we had all
kinds of people wandering around on the plane who did not have
boarding passes and who were not airline employees, seems kind of
strange. But then again, I've never had that happen to a flight I was
on before.

Anyway, we left only a bit late, I slept most of the way home, and got
home today at 2:00 p.m. to ABQ. Tomorrow, I do it again. Wheee.

I need Jack Daniels now. G'night, all...

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

[Eric Toline]

Madness at RDU - Trip Report

Group: rec.travel.air Date: Sat, Sep 20, 2003, 8:14pm (EDT-3) From:
(The=A0Bill=A0Mattocks)


<<<<<<<<<<<<<long story cut>>>>>>>>>>

Anyway, we left only a bit late, I slept most of the way home, and got
home today at 2:00 p.m. to ABQ. Tomorrow, I do it again. Wheee.
I need Jack Daniels now. G'night, all...
Best Regards, Bill Mattocks<<<<<<<<<<<<

Please explain the logic of flying 5 or 6+ hrs each way to be home for
19 hrs. I would think that it's more cost effective and restful for you
to have stayed in a hotel over night then to pay for the west bound
ticket.

Eric

[Henry]

Eric Toline > wrote:

> Please explain the logic of flying 5 or 6+ hrs each way to be home for
> 19 hrs. I would think that it's more cost effective and restful for you
> to have stayed in a hotel over night then to pay for the west bound
> ticket.

Presumably the attractiveness of 'one more night' in a hotel, restful or
not, pales in comparison to the chance to see his family more than once
in a blue moon and, of course, the company is paying for the plane
tickets.

cheers,

Henry

[Sjoerd]

"Henry" > schreef in bericht
...
>
> Presumably the attractiveness of 'one more night' in a hotel, restful or
> not, pales in comparison to the chance to see his family more than once
> in a blue moon and, of course, the company is paying for the plane
> tickets.

I don't think "seeing the family" is a big priority for Bill, as even when
he is home for only 19 hours, he spends considerable time in front of the
computer to write a trip report.

Sjoerd

[Binyamin Dissen]

On 20 Sep 2003 20:14:57 -0700 (The Bill Mattocks)
wrote:

[ snipped ]

:>It appears that no one got arrested - the HP people seemed to take it
:>with a shrug and a smile. However, I was a bit surprised that the
:>plane was not forced to empty out and reboard, or that we were not put
:>through security again, or something like that. I mean, we had all
:>kinds of people wandering around on the plane who did not have
:>boarding passes and who were not airline employees, seems kind of
:>strange. But then again, I've never had that happen to a flight I was
:>on before.

They give stand-bys "stand-by" boarding passes.

WHen I have been in such a situation, typically trying for a "full" earlier
flight, I get two boarding passes - one without a seat for the earlier flight
and one with a seat for the later flight.

[ snipped ]

--
Binyamin Dissen >
http://www.dissensoftware.com

[Jonathan Smith]

(Eric Toline) wrote in message >...
> Madness at RDU - Trip Report
>
> Group: rec.travel.air Date: Sat, Sep 20, 2003, 8:14pm (EDT-3) From:
> (The Bill Mattocks)
>
>
> <<<<<<<<<<<<<long story cut>>>>>>>>>>
>
> Anyway, we left only a bit late, I slept most of the way home, and got
> home today at 2:00 p.m. to ABQ. Tomorrow, I do it again. Wheee.
> I need Jack Daniels now. G'night, all...
> Best Regards, Bill Mattocks<<<<<<<<<<<<
>
> Please explain the logic of flying 5 or 6+ hrs each way to be home for
> 19 hrs. I would think that it's more cost effective and restful for you
> to have stayed in a hotel over night then to pay for the west bound
> ticket.

If you have to ask, you aren't a road warrior.
>
> Eric

[The Bill Mattocks]

(Eric Toline) wrote in message >...
> Please explain the logic of flying 5 or 6+ hrs each way to be home for
> 19 hrs. I would think that it's more cost effective and restful for you
> to have stayed in a hotel over night then to pay for the west bound
> ticket.

Eric,

You are absolutely right - it *would* be "more cost effective and
restful" to have stayed over instead of flying home for a few hours.
However, there is some logic to it, twisted though it may be.
Consider this:

1 - I do this for a living. I fly home every Saturday, and fly to my
next assignment every Sunday. If I *always* followed your logic, I
would *never* fly home, I would just go from assignment to assignment.
I suppose that would be 'cost-effective', but I would burn out
quickly. As it is, I've been doing this gig for seven years.

2 - I am married, and from time to time, my wife likes to see my face.
I can't imagine why, but there you go.

3 - Clean clothes.

4 - Actual home-cooked meal.

5 - I don't *pay* for my tickets or hotel room, so although I do try
to be 'cost-effective' for my employer, it is really no big deal if I
stay over or fly home. In any case, as an employee of this particular
corporation, I am *entitled* to fly home every weekend. Part of my
employment contract. They don't pay me overtime or travel pay, so if
I wanna come home, they gotta pay to send me home, too bad so sad if
they don't like it.

6 - Before I was married, I had to make sure my cat didn't starve and
empty my mailbox before the postal service decided I had cacked it and
stopped delivering my mail.

7 - Pay bills. I pay most of them online now, but some things can
only be handled by actual checks in actual mailboxes, and this I must
do at home, as old-fashioned and quaint though it may be. Not my
fault, but it must be done.

This is the life of the road-warrior. I'm far from the only one,
there are millions of us, and we do this day in and day out. Some fly
more than I do, make longer trips, but I'm definitely in the game. I
love it. Takes a certain kind, you know. The crazy kind.

However, having said all that - I *am* staying over this coming
weekend, because your advice is essentially correct - it wears me out
to fly all day to come home, only to turn right around and do it again
mere hours later. Since I am also an avid photographer (not a very
good one, but enthusiastic), I am schlepping a bunch of camera gear
back with me this trip, and next weekend I will drive around the North
Carolina backwoods taking pictures.

I took a few pictures last week with my digital camera and put them
online if you want to see them:

http://www.growlery.com/wilson_north_carolina/

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks
www.growlery.com

[TMOliver]

The Bill Mattocks vented spleen or mostly mumbled...


>
> I need Jack Daniels now. G'night, all...
>
> Best Regards,
>


My daughter, departing a day early to beat the storm, reported a bit of a
flail on Wednesday out of RDU, as the airlines back and filled, spending
too long in their standard posture: "If your ticket's for tomorrow, just
because we have empty seats today doesn't mean you can have one!"

Platinum, she could, but early Wednesday, empty seats were flying out of
RDU, so the airlines could tell people on Thurday or Friday that they
couldn't go.

TMO

[Robert Browne]

"The Bill Mattocks" > wrote in message
m...
> Well, I've weathered the hurricane, which swept through Wilson, North

Bill, I've often wondered why you always wait until Saturday to fly home. I
would think that there would be times the airline skeds. would allow you to
fly late afternoon or in the evening on Friday.
Bob

[The Bill Mattocks]

"Robert Browne" > wrote in message >...
> Bill, I've often wondered why you always wait until Saturday to fly home. I
> would think that there would be times the airline skeds. would allow you to
> fly late afternoon or in the evening on Friday.
> Bob

Bob, when I lived in Denver, I was often able to fly home on Friday
nights, and usually did. Now that I live in Albuquerque, it is harder
to catch a late-night flight that connects somewhere else and still
make it home on Friday night. My choices are usually a connection in
Phoenix, Chicago, Dallas, or Houston, and while I might be able to get
that far, I would not be able to get any further, and so would spend
the night in the airport at some connecting city.

For me to actually fly home on Friday and make my connections, I'd be
leaving the customer site at 1, 2, or maybe 3 in the afternoon.
They're paying for a full day's work. Not fair to the customer. So,
I usually fly home on Saturdays now.

However, for the big news (well, just a hint, actually). My wife and
I are looking at buying a house, NOT in ABQ, and if it happens as we
are currently planning, I'll be in driving range of TWO hub cities,
one of which has two airports itself. I should be able to take my
pick and get home quite often on Friday nights again. That would be
nice...

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

[The Bill Mattocks]

TMOliver > wrote in message >...
> My daughter, departing a day early to beat the storm, reported a bit of a
> flail on Wednesday out of RDU, as the airlines back and filled, spending
> too long in their standard posture: "If your ticket's for tomorrow, just
> because we have empty seats today doesn't mean you can have one!"

I didn't even try, because the customer (a large bank in this neck of
the woods), issued a statement to all employees and contractors
telling them that they *would* be at work during the hurricane, or
they'd be docked pay, various dire consequences, etc. So, I rode it
out.

> Platinum, she could, but early Wednesday, empty seats were flying out of
> RDU, so the airlines could tell people on Thurday or Friday that they
> couldn't go.

Sounds very much like standard airline logic. Sad, innit?

In any case, I'm back in Wilson, NC tonight, and I'm staying over this
weekend, flying home on Saturday, October 4. Brought some camera gear
with me and will be driving out over the weekend to take photos of the
area, a hobby of mine. I think I'll steer clear of the heavily
hurricane-damaged outer banks, no need to become a looky-loo to that
tragedy. I'll see if I can find a nice wooded area where maybe the
leaves are changing or something along those lines...

Got my Canon FX 35mm SLR (circa 1962), some great old Canon FL-mount
prime lenses, and a pocketful of decent film (can't buy pro film in
this area, they got Walmart and uh, Walmart).

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

[The Bill Mattocks]

Binyamin Dissen > wrote in message >...
> They give stand-bys "stand-by" boarding passes.

I believe you, but in this case, I don't think the invaders had
boarding passes of any kind for this flight. I heard the FA's trying
to sort them out, mainly by asking to see their boarding passes, which
many of them did not have. I guess at least one guy got onboard by
showing a boarding pass from a segment he had yet to fly (not the
RDU-PHX one). HP does not have card readers, so the lady at the
jetway ramp missed it.

> WHen I have been in such a situation, typically trying for a "full" earlier
> flight, I get two boarding passes - one without a seat for the earlier flight
> and one with a seat for the later flight.

I dunno, but I think these folks had no boarding passes at all. But I
was in FC and missed most of the ruckus in the back. What I could
hear was entertaining. As I said, though, I felt very badly for the
folks that had been trapped in the airport for so long. If I had been
scheduled for an earlier flight, I guess I would have been one of 'em.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

[The Bill Mattocks]

"Sjoerd" > wrote in message >...
> I don't think "seeing the family" is a big priority for Bill, as even when
> he is home for only 19 hours, he spends considerable time in front of the
> computer to write a trip report.

I type fast!

Besides, I have a laptop and a wireless card, so I can sit on the
sofa, carry on a coversation with my wife, and type to youse guys at
the same time. Multi-tasking, what a wonder, eh?

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

[me]

(The Bill Mattocks) wrote in message >...
[snip]
> However, for the big news (well, just a hint, actually). My wife and
> I are looking at buying a house, NOT in ABQ, and if it happens as we
> are currently planning, I'll be in driving range of TWO hub cities,
> one of which has two airports itself.

Okay boys and girls. The name of the game is "Where is this at?".
Forget the grammer, where is this place within "driving distance" of
two "hub" cities, one of which has 2 airports? Yes it's a bit
confusing because we don't really know what is a "hub city" to
Mr. Mattocks, nor what is "driving distance". However, one can
make a short list of "two airport" towns. My guess would be
somewhere 'round Chicago (he'd be within "driving distance" of
Milwakee if he lived somewhere around the Illinois/Wisconsin border).
He could be talking about San Diego/LA but it would seem
a bit odd to both; refer to LA as only a 2 airport town and,
consider San Diego as a "hub city". Portland/Seattle sorta
falls apart on the whole "two airport city" criteria. Now, he
could be talking about somewhere in the Dulles/DCA/BWI triangle.
However, it would seem a rugged traveler like he would then
probably represent Philly as an additional possibility. We know
he's considered Cincinatti before, but I struggle to identify the
2 airport town nearby.

My money's on Chicago. Middle of the country, central time zone.

[TMOliver]

(The Bill Mattocks) vented spleen or mostly
mumbled...


>
> In any case, I'm back in Wilson, NC tonight, and I'm staying over this
> weekend, flying home on Saturday, October 4. Brought some camera gear
> with me and will be driving out over the weekend to take photos of the
> area, a hobby of mine. I think I'll steer clear of the heavily
> hurricane-damaged outer banks, no need to become a looky-loo to that
> tragedy. I'll see if I can find a nice wooded area where maybe the
> leaves are changing or something along those lines...
>
> Got my Canon FX 35mm SLR (circa 1962), some great old Canon FL-mount
> prime lenses, and a pocketful of decent film (can't buy pro film in
> this area, they got Walmart and uh, Walmart).
>

I know it's the zenith of touristy trite, but a drive over to Asheville to
see the Mansion will give you all the photogropportunity you can manage,
and maybe up that high some fall changes....


TMO

[TMOliver]

(me) vented spleen or mostly mumbled...


> My money's on Chicago. Middle of the country, central time zone.
>

Although Bill loathes WN, you'd have to admit DFW and DAL make the
Metroplex a two airport hub, although explaining the Wright Amendment is a
bit complex. Then there's Houston, the climate a combination of
Equatorial rain Forest with a cold Winter, but IAH, "hub" for CO and HOU.

Driving range of two cities with "hubs"....at 250 miles distance, being
"between" IAH and DFW could still be a fur piece, and "midway" remains
pretty rural for Bill.

HP has closed its Columbus hub, so it can't be in the cornfields between
there and Cincy.

Chicago/Milwaukee..... Sure, there's ORD and MDW, but The big M's only a
hub for wurstwagons, not even beer trucks any more.

Bill in Miami or LA/ Wow!

TMO

[Frank F. Matthews]

Despite the existence of two two airport hub cities Bill could never
stand living in Texas. FFM

TMOliver wrote:
> (me) vented spleen or mostly mumbled...

>> My money's on Chicago. Middle of the country, central time zone.

> Although Bill loathes WN, you'd have to admit DFW and DAL make the
> Metroplex a two airport hub, although explaining the Wright Amendment is a
> bit complex. Then there's Houston, the climate a combination of
> Equatorial rain Forest with a cold Winter, but IAH, "hub" for CO and HOU.
>
> Driving range of two cities with "hubs"....at 250 miles distance, being
> "between" IAH and DFW could still be a fur piece, and "midway" remains
> pretty rural for Bill.
>
> HP has closed its Columbus hub, so it can't be in the cornfields between
> there and Cincy.
>
> Chicago/Milwaukee..... Sure, there's ORD and MDW, but The big M's only a
> hub for wurstwagons, not even beer trucks any more.
>
> Bill in Miami or LA/ Wow!
>
> TMO

[idkw]

> I didn't even try, because the customer (a large bank in this neck of
> the woods), issued a statement to all employees and contractors
> telling them that they *would* be at work during the hurricane, or
> they'd be docked pay, various dire consequences, etc. So, I rode it
> out.

Couldn't possibly be a certain bank whose name rhymes with "Walk All
Over Ya", now could it? Are they still ruining (running) OS/2 ?

[mrtravel]

idkw wrote:

>>I didn't even try, because the customer (a large bank in this neck of
>>the woods), issued a statement to all employees and contractors
>>telling them that they *would* be at work during the hurricane, or
>>they'd be docked pay, various dire consequences, etc. So, I rode it
>>out.
>
>
> Couldn't possibly be a certain bank whose name rhymes with "Walk All
> Over Ya", now could it? Are they still ruining (running) OS/2 ?

I think they switched to WIN NT.

[me]

TMOliver > wrote in message >...
> (me) vented spleen or mostly mumbled...
>
>
> > My money's on Chicago. Middle of the country, central time zone.
> >
>
> Although Bill loathes WN, you'd have to admit DFW and DAL make the
> Metroplex a two airport hub, although explaining the Wright Amendment is a
> bit complex. Then there's Houston, the climate a combination of
> Equatorial rain Forest with a cold Winter, but IAH, "hub" for CO and HOU.
>
> Driving range of two cities with "hubs"....at 250 miles distance, being
> "between" IAH and DFW could still be a fur piece, and "midway" remains
> pretty rural for Bill.

250 is a long way, but yeah, I thought of that too.

>
> HP has closed its Columbus hub, so it can't be in the cornfields between
> there and Cincy.
>
> Chicago/Milwaukee..... Sure, there's ORD and MDW, but The big M's only a
> hub for wurstwagons, not even beer trucks any more.
>
> Bill in Miami or LA/ Wow!

I toyed with the idea of mentioning Florida to him. There are
fairly rural places one can live and still be within 2 hours of
ALOT of airports actually. At a minimum he could live
between Orlando and Tampa and be basically an hour from them
both. Actually, from where you would live to do that, you'd
be only a couple from Ft. Lauderdale and less than 3 from Miami.
You could also list Sanford/Orlando and even Daytona Beach in
that list too at that point. (although that wouldn't be buying
you much in the way of actual flights he might get to use).
But it's hot AND humid here and they banned all smoking in
restaurants. He might like the gun laws though.

[The Bill Mattocks]

(me) wrote in message >...
> Okay boys and girls. The name of the game is "Where is this at?".
> Forget the grammer, where is this place within "driving distance" of
> two "hub" cities, one of which has 2 airports? Yes it's a bit
> confusing because we don't really know what is a "hub city" to
> Mr. Mattocks, nor what is "driving distance". However, one can
> make a short list of "two airport" towns. My guess would be
> somewhere 'round Chicago (he'd be within "driving distance" of
> Milwakee if he lived somewhere around the Illinois/Wisconsin border).

Man, you're good! Yes, we're looking in the area of Kenosha,
Wisconsin for a house. Driving distance to MKE and ORD, with MDW
thrown in as an 'if I gotta' possiblity.

> He could be talking about San Diego/LA but it would seem
> a bit odd to both; refer to LA as only a 2 airport town and,
> consider San Diego as a "hub city".

Plus, California. Ick!

> Portland/Seattle sorta
> falls apart on the whole "two airport city" criteria. Now, he
> could be talking about somewhere in the Dulles/DCA/BWI triangle.

Expensive!

> However, it would seem a rugged traveler like he would then
> probably represent Philly as an additional possibility. We know
> he's considered Cincinatti before, but I struggle to identify the
> 2 airport town nearby.

Well, it's a thought, not that bad, but overall, we prefer the
midwest.

> My money's on Chicago. Middle of the country, central time zone.

Yep. Or at least, just north of there. We're in full-on
house-hunting mode now.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

[The Bill Mattocks]

(idkw) wrote in message >...
> Couldn't possibly be a certain bank whose name rhymes with "Walk All
> Over Ya", now could it? Are they still ruining (running) OS/2 ?

Nope, not that one. And no, this isn't OS/2, thank goodness.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

[The Bill Mattocks]

TMOliver > wrote in message >...
> Although Bill loathes WN, you'd have to admit DFW and DAL make the
> Metroplex a two airport hub, although explaining the Wright Amendment is a
> bit complex. Then there's Houston, the climate a combination of
> Equatorial rain Forest with a cold Winter, but IAH, "hub" for CO and HOU.

> Driving range of two cities with "hubs"....at 250 miles distance, being
> "between" IAH and DFW could still be a fur piece, and "midway" remains
> pretty rural for Bill.

I wouldn't mind being in the middle of nowhere, but the wife...
Anyway, she likes seasons, with winter and all. I lived in Wisconsin
for about six years, and grew up in Illinois. I know winter, we'll
see how she likes 4 feet of snow.

> HP has closed its Columbus hub, so it can't be in the cornfields between
> there and Cincy.

Although we took a nice drive down the middle of Ohio a few years
back, from Columbus to Cincy, and it is a beautiful drive if you stay
off the Interstate. At one point, we rounded a blind corner on a
rural road and were startled to see a HUGE turkey go crashing off the
road and into the brush. Fantastic!

> Chicago/Milwaukee..... Sure, there's ORD and MDW, but The big M's only a
> hub for wurstwagons, not even beer trucks any more.

I'm not a fan of MDW, and it's not a 'hub', but it is a choice if
worst comes to wurst.

> Bill in Miami or LA/ Wow!

Yeah, that'll happen. Hahahaha! How would Cali feel about my SKS and
AK's? I guess in Miami it would be ok...practically a fashion
statement. But nah, I look horrible in pastels.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

[The Bill Mattocks]

"Frank F. Matthews" > wrote in message >...
> Despite the existence of two two airport hub cities Bill could never
> stand living in Texas. FFM

You got that right.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

[mrtravel]

The Bill Mattocks wrote:

>
> Man, you're good! Yes, we're looking in the area of Kenosha,
> Wisconsin for a house. Driving distance to MKE and ORD, with MDW
> thrown in as an 'if I gotta' possiblity.

What airline has a hub at MKE?
I haven't been to Kenosha since my days at Great Lakes NTC.

> >

[Mark W. Wheatley]

me wrote:
> Okay boys and girls. The name of the game is "Where is this at?".
> Forget the grammer, where is this place within "driving distance" of
> two "hub" cities, one of which has 2 airports?

My guess is Austin, TX. It's about three hours from both Houston (HOU
and IAH) and Dallas (DFW). DFW gets him an American and a Delta hub. IAH
gets him a Continental hub.

[Anne Bodnarchuk]

The Bill Mattocks wrote:
> I wouldn't mind being in the middle of nowhere, but the wife...
> Anyway, she likes seasons, with winter and all. I lived in Wisconsin
> for about six years, and grew up in Illinois. I know winter, we'll
> see how she likes 4 feet of snow.

The logical conclusion is that you will live in Red Deer Alberta. Halfway
between Edmonton which as 2 airports and acts as a hub between southern and
arctic services, and Calgary which is the hub for Westjet. :-)

The big question is whether Mr Mattocks will choose a city based on his
airline allegiance(s), or whether, since 9-11, the airlines have cutback so
much in FF goodies that Mr Mattocks won't have much problem switching
allegiances if the new location provides equivalent schedules.

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[The Bill Mattocks]

mrtravel > wrote in message >...
> What airline has a hub at MKE?
> I haven't been to Kenosha since my days at Great Lakes NTC.

YX, although I understand they are no longer what they were.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

[devil]

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 22:02:57 -0400, Anne Bodnarchuk wrote:

> The Bill Mattocks wrote:
>> I wouldn't mind being in the middle of nowhere, but the wife...
>> Anyway, she likes seasons, with winter and all. I lived in Wisconsin
>> for about six years, and grew up in Illinois. I know winter, we'll
>> see how she likes 4 feet of snow.
>
> The logical conclusion is that you will live in Red Deer Alberta. Halfway
> between Edmonton which as 2 airports and acts as a hub between southern and
> arctic services, and Calgary which is the hub for Westjet. :-)

I believe it's down to one, YEG. Which indeed may well be closer to Red
Deer. Bad tongues claim it's really half way from calgary to Edmonton.
:-)

But anyway, you no longer can fly anywhere from YEG without connecting at
YYC, so who cares.

YYC itself is actually quite convenient as a place to fly from. Nonstop
flights to London and FRA, in Canada, YVR, YYZ, YUL, YOW, I believe
Halifax and Victoria, plus a bunch of smaller places in the West. To the
US, Seattle, Spokane, SFO, LAX, DEN, Salt Lake, ORD, Minneapolis, Dallas,
Houston. And I probably miss a couple.

[JohnT]

"Mark W. Wheatley" > wrote in message
...
> me wrote:
> > Okay boys and girls. The name of the game is "Where is this at?".
> > Forget the grammer, where is this place within "driving distance" of
> > two "hub" cities, one of which has 2 airports?
>
> My guess is Austin, TX. It's about three hours from both Houston (HOU
> and IAH) and Dallas (DFW). DFW gets him an American and a Delta hub.
IAH
> gets him a Continental hub.
>

London
New York or Philadelphia or Washington DC
Central Florida (Orlando has two Airports)
Central Scotland (Ryanair refer to Prestwick as "Glasgow", and there is
also a real airport in the City)
Ile de France, within Paris conurbation

............................ and there must be hundreds more.

JohnT

[me]

"JohnT" > wrote in message >...
> "Mark W. Wheatley" > wrote in message
> ...
> > me wrote:
> > > Okay boys and girls. The name of the game is "Where is this at?".
> > > Forget the grammer, where is this place within "driving distance" of
> > > two "hub" cities, one of which has 2 airports?
> >
> > My guess is Austin, TX. It's about three hours from both Houston (HOU
> > and IAH) and Dallas (DFW). DFW gets him an American and a Delta hub.
> IAH
> > gets him a Continental hub.
> >
>
> London

What's the "other hub city within driving distance"? Manchester?

> New York or Philadelphia or Washington DC

I did mention DC, because BWI gives it the "other
city" solution. NYC might qualify although I'm not sure
what was going to be the other city. Besides, NYC has
more than just 2 airports, depending upon how you count.
Truth is, with some careful selection, you could probably
declare some spot in Maryland/Penn. as a 4 airport kinda
position with Dulles, National, BWI, and Philly.

> Central Florida (Orlando has two Airports)

I did mention that too, although Sanford/Orlando hardly
qualifies by many standards, especially of road warriors.
Not alot of road warriors using charter airlines.

> Central Scotland (Ryanair refer to Prestwick as "Glasgow", and there is
> also a real airport in the City)

But again, with what other city?

> Ile de France, within Paris conurbation

Again, what other city as the alternate "hub"?

> ........................... and there must be hundreds more.


Multi-airport cities do abound, some with more than just 2.
However, the combination of that and the alternate hub city
makes the reduction a tad more severe. Throwing in some general
knowledge about Bill's likes and dislikes, really narrows it
further. I just didn't really see him living in Greenbelt,
Maryland. Especially if he thinks Seattle/Portland is expensive.

[S Viemeister]

me wrote:
>
> > Central Scotland (Ryanair refer to Prestwick as "Glasgow", and there is
> > also a real airport in the City)
>
> But again, with what other city?
>
Edinburgh, with many connections throughout Europe - and soon, direct
flights from EWR.

[JohnT]

"me" > wrote in message
om...
> "JohnT" > wrote in message
>...
> > "Mark W. Wheatley" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > me wrote:
> > > > Okay boys and girls. The name of the game is "Where is this
at?".
> > > > Forget the grammer, where is this place within "driving
distance" of
> > > > two "hub" cities, one of which has 2 airports?


SNIP
> > Ile de France, within Paris conurbation
>
> Again, what other city as the alternate "hub"?
>
AMS or BRU. Even easier if The Bill were to go by train.

JohnT

[TMOliver]

(The Bill Mattocks) vented spleen or mostly
mumbled...

> mrtravel > wrote in message
> >...
>> What airline has a hub at MKE?
>> I haven't been to Kenosha since my days at Great Lakes NTC.
>
> YX, although I understand they are no longer what they were.
>

Some might claim that they never quite what we (and they) thought they
were, and that much of their appeal was purchased at the cost of an
unmaintainable balance sheet, caught in a niche market in which preserving
the niche was not justified by any potential for growth within it.

TMO

[Not the Karl Orff]

In article >,
"Sjoerd" > wrote:

> I don't think "seeing the family" is a big priority for Bill, as even when
> he is home for only 19 hours, he spends considerable time in front of the
> computer to write a trip report.

or maybe he writes in on his way home, or on his way to work, and posts
it on the road

[The Bill Mattocks]

TMOliver > wrote in message >...
> Some might claim that they never quite what we (and they) thought they
> were, and that much of their appeal was purchased at the cost of an
> unmaintainable balance sheet, caught in a niche market in which preserving
> the niche was not justified by any potential for growth within it.

Well, I only ever had a few trips with Midwest Express (prior to name
change), but at the time, it was quite nice. I understand from my old
pal Austin Hastings that it has gone very much downhill since then.
Shame, that.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

[me]

TMOliver > wrote in message >...
> (The Bill Mattocks) vented spleen or mostly
> mumbled...
>
> > mrtravel > wrote in message
> > >...
> >> What airline has a hub at MKE?
> >> I haven't been to Kenosha since my days at Great Lakes NTC.
> >
> > YX, although I understand they are no longer what they were.
> >
>
> Some might claim that they never quite what we (and they) thought they
> were, and that much of their appeal was purchased at the cost of an
> unmaintainable balance sheet, caught in a niche market in which preserving
> the niche was not justified by any potential for growth within it.

I don't want that to be right. It may be, probably is, but I don't
want it to be. They were sort of the "anti-WN". Their prices weren't
bad, but they weren't rock bottom. But they were about a DECENT
trip between point A and B instead of the "lowest common denominator"
between A and B. They didn't look at an airline seat as a commodity.
They looked upon it as holding a human, a customer, a traveler,
not self loading cargo. Tyranny of the plurality I guess.

[Not the Karl Orff]

In article >,
"devil" > wrote:


> YYC itself is actually quite convenient as a place to fly from. Nonstop
> flights to London and FRA, in Canada, YVR, YYZ, YUL, YOW, I believe
> Halifax and Victoria, plus a bunch of smaller places in the West. To the
> US, Seattle, Spokane, SFO, LAX, DEN, Salt Lake, ORD, Minneapolis, Dallas,
> Houston. And I probably miss a couple.

most of these flights are in RJs from what I understand. hardly what
TBM wants to fly in

[Steve]

"The Bill Mattocks" > wrote in message
om...
> mrtravel > wrote in message
>...
> > What airline has a hub at MKE?
> > I haven't been to Kenosha since my days at Great Lakes NTC.
>
> YX, although I understand they are no longer what they were.

Plus you have MKE as a NW 'focus city', with non-stops to six different
cities (LAX, LAS, LGA, MCO, BOS, DCA) plus their 3 hubs (DTW, MSP, and MEM).
That could give you some added flexibility to use MKE if you must travel to
one of those cities. (that is, if NW doesn't dump the new MKE flights)

Best,

Steve

[The Bill Mattocks]

Not the Karl Orff > wrote in message >...
> most of these flights are in RJs from what I understand. hardly what
> TBM wants to fly in

Agreed - RJ's are mostly icky-poo. Although I have had a couple of FC
seats in the HP RJ700's that were quite nice. Overhead space sucks,
though.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

[James Robinson]

The Bill Mattocks wrote:
>
> Agreed - RJ's are mostly icky-poo. Although I have had a couple
> of FC seats in the HP RJ700's that were quite nice. Overhead
> space sucks, though.

To follow up on an earlier discussion about the size of seats in an RJ,
I took a tape measure on my last trip to confirm the measurements listed
in the airlines' web sites.

The space between the two armrests on a Comair CRJ was 17.5 inches. The
space between the armrests on a Delta coach seat in a B-737-200 was
slightly less at 17 inches even. The seat pitch in the CRJ was 31
inches, and the seat pitch in the 737 was 30 inches in the row I was
seated in. These measurements were all identical to those shown in
their web site. (Showing truth in advertising.)

Therefore, the seats in the CRJ are actually slightly larger than those
in that particular model of 737. Their web site shows that the seat
pitch on the 737 varies between 30 inches and 32 inches, so you could
get a seat with a greater pitch on the 737.

The major differences I noted between the two aircraft were that the
bottom seat cushion on the CRJ was very thin, and the hard surface of
the seat pan made it uncomfortable to sit in one position for any length
of time. Further, the curvature of the walls meant that my shoulder had
less room when sitting in the window seat, in comparison to the 737.

[Jesper Lauridsen]

On 21 Sep 2003 18:14:19 -0700, (The Bill Mattocks) wrote:

>For me to actually fly home on Friday and make my connections, I'd be
>leaving the customer site at 1, 2, or maybe 3 in the afternoon.
>They're paying for a full day's work. Not fair to the customer. So,
>I usually fly home on Saturdays now.

You could work extra on Thursday, to make up for the hours lost on
Friday. But I guess you're the kind of guy, who will put in a full
day, regardless of how much extra he had done in the days before.

--
Don't be sorry to email me.

[The Bill Mattocks]

(Jesper Lauridsen) wrote in message >...
> You could work extra on Thursday, to make up for the hours lost on
> Friday. But I guess you're the kind of guy, who will put in a full
> day, regardless of how much extra he had done in the days before.

Sometimes I teach - like next week in Irvine, CA. I can't teach late
one day to leave early the next - just the way it goes.

And yes, I just put in 12 hours at work today. I have some more work
to do tonight from my hotel room. I don't think that entitles me to
come in late tomorrow - just the way it goes.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks