United Swamped With Flight Attendant Applications
 

"Bankrupt United Airlines said on Monday it received about 7,500
applications for flight attendant jobs on Sunday, the first day of a
round of hiring that will add 2,000 jobs at the carrier. A spokes-
woman for the airline said the number of applications on Sunday
was more than seven times the expected response."

http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1132056175.html

This directly contradicts the generally-held, but naive belief that the
American economy is doing well.

United Swamped With Flight Attendant Applications
 

This directly contradicts the generally-held, but naive belief that the
American economy is doing well.

You need to use a bit more caution when establishing a cause and effect
in the job market. At the minimum you are making the assumption that
all those who applied are currently unemployed.

United Swamped With Flight Attendant Applications
 

This directly contradicts the generally-held, but naive belief that the
American economy is doing well.

You need to use a bit more caution when establishing a cause and effect
in the job market. At the minimum you are making the assumption that
all those who applied are currently unemployed.

I'm just using well-informed common sense. Headhunters have told me
that back when the economy was booming, ordinary jobs like secretary
jobs would only garner 20 or so resumes. Now those same jobs
attract hundreds of resumes. One headhunter told me that a really good
job attracted many, many thousands of resumes. In good times it would
have attracted hundreds of resumes.

Your point about applicants is correct, but misleading. You probably
are unaware that the DOL reports people with a part-time job, or a
job giving them less hours than they need, as being employed, with the
natural assumption by typical Americans that this means full-time. Yes,
many of those applicants are probably employed by the DOL's
definition, but not employed anywhere near the level they need to
survive. My point still stands: if the economy is so great, then UA's
ad would have attracted far fewer applicants. UA's expectation that
only 1/7 as many people would apply only strengthens my case.

United Swamped With Flight Attendant Applications
 

I'm just using well-informed common sense. Headhunters have told me
that back when the economy was booming, ordinary jobs like secretary
jobs would only garner 20 or so resumes. Now those same jobs
attract hundreds of resumes. One headhunter told me that a really good
job attracted many, many thousands of resumes. In good times it would
have attracted hundreds of resumes.

Wrong. The only thing the hiring numbers might suggets is that there
may be high unemployment in the airline field. But even this must
assume that a large percentage of those who applied have either a
background or training in that specific field. Correlate the UAL
application numbers with responses for hiring in other professions. Do
they demonstrate the same application ratio to positions available?
And if not, can that then be attributed to a stable economy?

A social economist might deduce that the number of applications to UAL
indicate that the public now believes that the airline industry is on
the rebound.

Using 'well-informed common sense' requires recognition that the
politically acceptable answer is not always the correct one.

United Swamped With Flight Attendant Applications
 

PI wrote:
"Bankrupt United Airlines said on Monday it received about 7,500
applications for flight attendant jobs on Sunday, the first day of a
round of hiring that will add 2,000 jobs at the carrier. A spokes-
woman for the airline said the number of applications on Sunday
was more than seven times the expected response."

http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1132056175.html

This directly contradicts the generally-held, but naive belief that the
American economy is doing well.

That's a rather wildly absurd statement, don't you think? The fact that
airlines are in trouble and that a lot of people are applying for jobs
doesn't have anything to do with the overall state of the economy.

Unemployment is down (well below historical averages). Growth is good
and steady (and sustainable rather than being a bubble). Companies are
profitable.

I'm not sure how you call that a "naive belief".

United Swamped With Flight Attendant Applications
 

"Tchiowa" wrote ...

PI wrote:
"Bankrupt United Airlines said on Monday it received about 7,500
applications for flight attendant jobs on Sunday, the first day of a
round of hiring that will add 2,000 jobs at the carrier. A spokes-
woman for the airline said the number of applications on Sunday
was more than seven times the expected response."

http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1132056175.html

This directly contradicts the generally-held, but naive belief that the
American economy is doing well.

That's a rather wildly absurd statement, don't you think? The fact that
airlines are in trouble and that a lot of people are applying for jobs
doesn't have anything to do with the overall state of the economy.

Unemployment is down (well below historical averages). Growth is good
and steady (and sustainable rather than being a bubble). Companies are
profitable.

I'm not sure how you call that a "naive belief".


From an economist's perspective (or that of a demographer), one might
classify PI as the holder of "naive belief".

I suspect that FA applications have more to do with a long period without FA
hirings by the majors plus the traditional appeal, psychological rather than
financial, of the "profession", still one that draws folks whose aspirations
have more to do with emotion than good fiscal sense.

Application list lengths for astronauts and cheer leaders traditionally are
unrelated to the economy, either, but do reflect published notice that the
waiting lists are open....

TMO

United Swamped With Flight Attendant Applications
 

"PI" wrote in message
ink.net...
"Bankrupt United Airlines said on Monday it received about 7,500
applications for flight attendant jobs on Sunday, the first day of a
round of hiring that will add 2,000 jobs at the carrier. A spokes-
woman for the airline said the number of applications on Sunday
was more than seven times the expected response."

http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1132056175.html

This directly contradicts the generally-held, but naive belief that the
American economy is doing well.

People don't generally apply for those jobs because of the money. Many do
it for the flight benefits for themselves, their families, their friends.
If you can qualify for a job as a UA FA, you can get a job doing something
else for more money -- it's not the money.

United Swamped With Flight Attendant Applications
 

On 17 Nov 2005 22:06:41 -0800, "Tchiowa" wrote:


PI wrote:
"Bankrupt United Airlines said on Monday it received about 7,500
applications for flight attendant jobs on Sunday, the first day of a
round of hiring that will add 2,000 jobs at the carrier. A spokes-
woman for the airline said the number of applications on Sunday
was more than seven times the expected response."

http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1132056175.html

This directly contradicts the generally-held, but naive belief that the
American economy is doing well.

That's a rather wildly absurd statement, don't you think? The fact that
airlines are in trouble and that a lot of people are applying for jobs
doesn't have anything to do with the overall state of the economy.

Unemployment is down (well below historical averages). Growth is good
and steady (and sustainable rather than being a bubble). Companies are
profitable.

I'm not sure how you call that a "naive belief".

What planet do you live on? Unemployment is extremely high in the US.
The economy is sluggish, at best. The US has incurred a series of
staggering trade deficits, war debts, etc.

You're just plain wrong.

United Swamped With Flight Attendant Applications
 

What planet do you live on? Unemployment is extremely high in the
US. The economy is sluggish, at best. The US has incurred a series
of staggering trade deficits, war debts, etc.

You're just plain wrong.

Let me guess here, ... you're the first one in line when it comes to
believing any program on PBS/NPR, and any report by the mainstream
media. Is federal spending too high? You bet. Has the economy
tanked? Depends on whose definition you prefer to use. According to
the political left we are in the midst of a depression and will soon be
waiting in soup lines.

United Swamped With Flight Attendant Applications
 

wrote:
On 17 Nov 2005 22:06:41 -0800, "Tchiowa" wrote:

That's a rather wildly absurd statement, don't you think? The fact that
airlines are in trouble and that a lot of people are applying for jobs
doesn't have anything to do with the overall state of the economy.

Unemployment is down (well below historical averages). Growth is good
and steady (and sustainable rather than being a bubble). Companies are
profitable.

I'm not sure how you call that a "naive belief".

What planet do you live on? Unemployment is extremely high in the US.
The economy is sluggish, at best. The US has incurred a series of
staggering trade deficits, war debts, etc.

You're just plain wrong.

Unemployment is at record low levels in the US (around 5.0% give or
take a tenth)

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

and not just that, but at levels below other industrialized countries.


http://www.insee.fr/en/indicateur/an...onj_resume.htm

GDP growth is close to 4% - better than any of the OECD countries.

Trade deficits are in part BECAUSE of a GOOD economy, not because of a
bad one - remember, it takes money to afford imports - and as such, the
US can afford much more than Germany, Italy, or China.. The price of
oil hasn't helped matters, but we are far from alone in this. As far
as debts are concerned, as a proportion of GDP, the deficit is
unremarkable and compared to other countries, hardly different.

http://www.cbo.gov/showdoc.cfm?index=1821&sequence=0

http://www.lordabbett.com/usa/insigh....jsp?OID=14962

Data. Just data.

gees.

United Swamped With Flight Attendant Applications
 

wrote:

What planet do you live on? Unemployment is extremely high in the US.
The economy is sluggish, at best. The US has incurred a series of
staggering trade deficits, war debts, etc.


Clearly not the same planet you live on. On my planet, US unemployment is
staying right around 5%, pretty much the historical norm through presidents of
either persusion.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

The economy is sluggish at best? On my planet, the Gross Domestic Product just
increased by almost 4% in the third quarter, and that includes the spike in fuel
prices (which are now falling):

http://www.bea.doc.gov/bea/newsrel/gdpnewsrelease.htm


You're just plain wrong.


Perhaps you might consider reading publications that provides facts and analysis
rather than rote ideology?

United Swamped With Flight Attendant Applications
 

wrote:
On 17 Nov 2005 22:06:41 -0800, "Tchiowa" wrote:


PI wrote:
snip
This directly contradicts the generally-held, but naive belief that the
American economy is doing well.

That's a rather wildly absurd statement, don't you think? The fact that
airlines are in trouble and that a lot of people are applying for jobs
doesn't have anything to do with the overall state of the economy.

Unemployment is down (well below historical averages). Growth is good
and steady (and sustainable rather than being a bubble). Companies are
profitable.

I'm not sure how you call that a "naive belief".

What planet do you live on? Unemployment is extremely high in the US.

No it's not. It's less than 5%. Historical average is about 5 1/2%. In
France and Germany it's close to 10%. Unemployment is average to low in
the US.

The economy is sluggish, at best.

Growth has been consistently in the high 3+% range (3.5-3.9) for
several years. Again, slightly better than average. And certainly
better than the +10% one year followed by -5% the next which is what
happens in a bubble.

Again, US growth is twice (or better) greater than most other 1st world
countries.

The US has incurred a series of
staggering trade deficits, war debts, etc.

Actually the current debt is lower than it was 15 or so years ago
(based on constant dollars). The current budget deficit is (once again)
about average taken as a percent of GDP.

You're just plain wrong.

And you've been listening to too many Michael Moore rants.

United Swamped With Flight Attendant Applications
 

Six years ago, at this level of "unemployment", my
Fortune 500 firm was paying retention bonuses to
the engineering staff. Now, it's "Survivor" ...

gld

United Swamped With Flight Attendant Applications
 

United Swamped With Flight Attendant Applications
 

Gary L. Dare wrote:
wrote:


What planet do you live on? Unemployment is extremely high in the US.
The economy is sluggish, at best. The US has incurred a series of
staggering trade deficits, war debts, etc.

Actually, the EMployment rate is a more ambiguouse
measure ... and the US is in the middle of the pack.

The stock market has been trading sideways for 5 years.

??? Which stock market? The Dow Jones has gone up roughly 38% in 3
years (July, 2002 it was at 7702, now it's over 10,600).

The national debt has burst over $8 Trillion.

Which as a percent to GDP isn't all that bad.

The US debt-to-GDP is about to jump over that of France
and Germany, with only Japan and Italy in the G7 higher.

??? The US debt-to-GDP *was* above France and Germany. The US debt rate
is now below France and Germany and dropping while the French and
German rates are rising.

United Swamped With Flight Attendant Applications
 

You've been watching too much Michael Moore... get into the real world.

wrote in message
...
On 17 Nov 2005 22:06:41 -0800, "Tchiowa" wrote:



What planet do you live on? Unemployment is extremely high in the US.
The economy is sluggish, at best. The US has incurred a series of
staggering trade deficits, war debts, etc.

You're just plain wrong.

United Swamped With Flight Attendant Applications
 

Tchiowa wrote:


??? Which stock market? The Dow Jones has gone up roughly 38% in 3
years (July, 2002 it was at 7702, now it's over 10,600).

And where was it in July 2001? July 2000? Most
of us who have been in the market for longer than
five years are just trying to recover.

The national debt has burst over $8 Trillion.


Which as a percent to GDP isn't all that bad.


The US debt-to-GDP is about to jump over that of France
and Germany, with only Japan and Italy in the G7 higher.


??? The US debt-to-GDP *was* above France and Germany. The US debt rate
is now below France and Germany and dropping while the French and
German rates are rising.


This just happened and there's no guarantee
of a trend (for the US, nevermind France or
Germany). That it is even at 64.5% when it
was under 50% not that long ago is the worry.

http://www.econotarian.org/1128066556/index_html

gld

United Swamped With Flight Attendant Applications
 

Gary L. Dare wrote:
Tchiowa wrote:


??? Which stock market? The Dow Jones has gone up roughly 38% in 3
years (July, 2002 it was at 7702, now it's over 10,600).

And where was it in July 2001? July 2000? Most
of us who have been in the market for longer than
five years are just trying to recover.

So what? How many things can you get wrong at one time?

First, the claim was that the economy was bad. We went through a
recession in 2001 and the market went down. The fact that it has gone
up 38% in the past 3 years is an indicator that the economy is good
*NOW*. Do you understand that?

Further, those of us who have been in the stock market more than 5
years are doing just fine, thank you. The market went down in 2000 and
2001 but it had gone up in previous years during the bubble. Overall
for the last 15 years or so it has been increasing at it's typical
8-10% rate.

The US debt-to-GDP is about to jump over that of France
and Germany, with only Japan and Italy in the G7 higher.

??? The US debt-to-GDP *was* above France and Germany. The US debt rate
is now below France and Germany and dropping while the French and
German rates are rising.

This just happened

That's right!!! The economy is good now whereas it was bad 4 years ago.
Which pretty much disproves your premise.

and there's no guarantee of a trend (for the US, nevermind France or
Germany). That it is even at 64.5% when it was under 50% not that long ago is the
worry.

Of course there are no guarantees. The economy could turn bad. But you
tried to say that the economy is bad *NOW* and it simply isn't.

Quit reading MoveOn.org and pay attention to reality.

United Swamped With Flight Attendant Applications
 

On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 23:00:13 -0800, "Gary L. Dare"
wrote:

Tchiowa wrote:


??? Which stock market? The Dow Jones has gone up roughly 38% in 3
years (July, 2002 it was at 7702, now it's over 10,600).

And where was it in July 2001? July 2000? Most
of us who have been in the market for longer than
five years are just trying to recover.

The national debt has burst over $8 Trillion.


Which as a percent to GDP isn't all that bad.


The US debt-to-GDP is about to jump over that of France
and Germany, with only Japan and Italy in the G7 higher.


??? The US debt-to-GDP *was* above France and Germany. The US debt rate
is now below France and Germany and dropping while the French and
German rates are rising.


This just happened and there's no guarantee
of a trend (for the US, nevermind France or
Germany). That it is even at 64.5% when it
was under 50% not that long ago is the worry.

http://www.econotarian.org/1128066556/index_html

gld

Your reference is to a September article.

It is now almost the end of November.

Can't you quote more recent figures?

United Swamped With Flight Attendant Applications
 

john wrote:

Your reference is to a September article.

It is now almost the end of November.

Can't you quote more recent figures?

You can't get more recent than October 2005
since today is November 20 as I post ... so
I did your Google search for you ...

http://www.optimist123.com/optimist/...05_gdp_na.html

Good news: it didn't go up. Bad news: it didn't go down.

Still, one must wonder about the 20 percentage-point
run-up over the past five years.

Getting back to the original posting title,
with all the people who "left" the workforce,
we are seeing mass applications for positions
like the UA FA's when the last time we had 5%
unemployment, your phone was ringing from head-
hunters.

gld

United Swamped With Flight Attendant Applications
 

Gary L. Dare wrote:
Tchiowa wrote:


??? Which stock market? The Dow Jones has gone up roughly 38% in 3
years (July, 2002 it was at 7702, now it's over 10,600).


And where was it in July 2001? July 2000? Most
of us who have been in the market for longer than
five years are just trying to recover.


Get real, what was it BEFORE 2000?
It increased dramatically in the few years prior to 2000.
That supercharged stock market increase was substantially influenced by
factors other than REALITY.

United Swamped With Flight Attendant Applications
 

Cyrus Afzali wrote:

That's wrong too. While 5 percent is right, we're not at the record
low levels seen in the 90s.

The 90s is a long time. In 1990, the unemplyment rate was 5.6%, rising to 7.5%
in 1992. By 1994, it had slowly drifted down to 6.4%. It continued to drift down
to just below 5% by 1998. 1999 and 2000 were the lowest at 4.2%, from which its
bounced up and down a bit.

http://www.bls.gov/cps/prev_yrs.htm