Ragheads Kicked Off Of Phoenix - Bound Flight...

Mike Hunt wrote:
Sarah Czepiel wrote:

On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 21:36:39 -0800, Mike Hunt postmaster@localhost
wrote:

:Sarah Czepiel wrote:
:
: You've established a long history and pattern of doing last minute
: reservations and because of that you don't raise a red flag with your
: travel profile.
:
:Sarah, do you believe that 9/11 was done "last minute"?

Relevency ?

The mistaken belief that last minute tickets are a terrorist security issue

Airline terrorism events are not last minute planned events

But ticket purchases related to them are. The terrorists don't want
their name on a passenger manifest weeks ahead of time for someone to
accidentally stumble on to and question.

DevilsPGD wrote:
In message .com
"Tchiowa" wrote:

Was this a "test run" after all?

A test run for what? Getting on a plane?

For testing what airline reactions are these days so they could plan
something in the future?

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:45:12 -0800, Mike Hunt postmaster@localhost
wrote:

:Sarah Czepiel wrote:
:
: :The mistaken belief that last minute tickets are a terrorist security issue
:
: I didn't say they were a terrorist security issue. I said the
: scenario raises a red flag.
:
: :Airline terrorism events are not last minute planned events
:
: Gee, ya think? shakes head....
:
:
: You say it raises a red flag, but not for terrorsism
:
:Then, what does it raise a red flag for? Door to door magazine salesmen?
:

You waste everyoe's time with your silly rand childish esponses. Red
flags go up for a number of reasons. Someone with an outstanding
arrest warrent, a BOLO, will red flag.

Tchiowa wrote:

But ticket purchases related to them are. The terrorists don't want
their name on a passenger manifest weeks ahead of time for someone to
accidentally stumble on to and question.


The 9/11 hijackers didn't buy tickets last minute.

It is also not difficult for someone other than the named passenger to
board a domestic US flight. It's not rocket science, nor does it take
expensive equipment

1. You don't need valid ID to get a boarding pass online.
(Buy ticket under a name that would not be on a watch list)

2. You can easily edit an online boarding pass to change the name to
match an ID. (Edit BP to real name of person on watch list)

3. There is no match of BP validity at security, nor is there a match of
names against a suspected terrorist database. There is only a check to
match name to BP (Use editted BP to get through security)

4. Use real BP to board plane (as gate machine will show name of
passenger with reservation, so the name on BP has to match the name on
reservation

Let's stop wasting time on a security dog and pony show.
We now have at least one extra person at security ASKING people if they
have liquids. He doesn't inspect anything. He does absolutely NOTHING
that would prevent terrorism. If TSA really thought an ID check was
important, the ID/BP check would be done with a watch list database.

Sarah Czepiel wrote:

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:45:12 -0800, Mike Hunt postmaster@localhost
wrote:

:Sarah Czepiel wrote:
:
: :The mistaken belief that last minute tickets are a terrorist security issue
:
: I didn't say they were a terrorist security issue. I said the
: scenario raises a red flag.
:
: :Airline terrorism events are not last minute planned events
:
: Gee, ya think? shakes head....
:
:
: You say it raises a red flag, but not for terrorsism
:
:Then, what does it raise a red flag for? Door to door magazine salesmen?
:

You waste everyoe's time with your silly rand childish esponses. Red
flags go up for a number of reasons. Someone with an outstanding
arrest warrent, a BOLO, will red flag.

Are you not thinking clearly?
Do you believe that the increased chance of getting SSSS on a BP for a
last minute or one way ticket is NOT related to terrorism security, but
arrest warrants? So, let's see. A suspected murderer buys a last
minute one way ticket, get's an SSSS on his ticket..... Then what?
Assuming he has nothing illegal on him, when screened by TSA, he goes
free....... What does having extra security screening by TSA have to
do with looking for someone with an arrest warrant?

Mike Hunt wrote:
Tchiowa wrote:

But ticket purchases related to them are. The terrorists don't want
their name on a passenger manifest weeks ahead of time for someone to
accidentally stumble on to and question.


The 9/11 hijackers didn't buy tickets last minute.

Several did, and in cash. Plus things weren't being monitored then the
same way they are now.

It is also not difficult for someone other than the named passenger to
board a domestic US flight. It's not rocket science, nor does it take
expensive equipment

That's why they've added the requirement to show ID.

1. You don't need valid ID to get a boarding pass online.
(Buy ticket under a name that would not be on a watch list)

But you have to show ID that matches the boarding pass while you're
clearing security.

2. You can easily edit an online boarding pass to change the name to
match an ID. (Edit BP to real name of person on watch list)

Not as easy as you'd think.

3. There is no match of BP validity at security,

Of course there is.

nor is there a match of
names against a suspected terrorist database. There is only a check to
match name to BP (Use editted BP to get through security)

And photo.

4. Use real BP to board plane (as gate machine will show name of
passenger with reservation, so the name on BP has to match the name on
reservation

Let's stop wasting time on a security dog and pony show.
We now have at least one extra person at security ASKING people if they
have liquids. He doesn't inspect anything. He does absolutely NOTHING
that would prevent terrorism. If TSA really thought an ID check was
important, the ID/BP check would be done with a watch list database.

Nobody (or at least nobody with any sense) claims that TSA is fixing
the problem. They are a rather useless government agency. But that's
not the issue here, is it?

Tchiowa wrote:

1. You don't need valid ID to get a boarding pass online.
(Buy ticket under a name that would not be on a watch list)


But you have to show ID that matches the boarding pass while you're
clearing security.

So?? The ID being shown is not checked against a watch list
The BP being shown isn't verified against the actual reservation


2. You can easily edit an online boarding pass to change the name to
match an ID. (Edit BP to real name of person on watch list)


Not as easy as you'd think.

Really? You don't think changing the name, dates, times, flight numbers
isn't easy? Why not? Are they printed in special classified fonts?
Do you think the BP checker would even notice a slight font type or size
difference?

The low tech way.
1. Print BP
2. Print page with name and nothing else
3. Cut name of page and paste on top of BP page
4. Copy combined page



3. There is no match of BP validity at security,


Of course there is.

NOPE.
There is no check to verify the name on the BP is the name on the
reservation. The person checking the BP has no computer


nor is there a match of
names against a suspected terrorist database. There is only a check to
match name to BP (Use editted BP to get through security)


And photo.

So? It doesn't mater if the name and photo on the ID match the editted
BP, as the names aren't checked at the check point against a list of
suspected terrorist



4. Use real BP to board plane (as gate machine will show name of
passenger with reservation, so the name on BP has to match the name on
reservation

Let's stop wasting time on a security dog and pony show.
We now have at least one extra person at security ASKING people if they
have liquids. He doesn't inspect anything. He does absolutely NOTHING
that would prevent terrorism. If TSA really thought an ID check was
important, the ID/BP check would be done with a watch list database.


Nobody (or at least nobody with any sense) claims that TSA is fixing
the problem. They are a rather useless government agency. But that's
not the issue here, is it?


Yes, it is the issue. The people being hurt by this are the innocent
ones, be they the Imans on the plane or the others that were delayed 3
hours by this note writing idiot.

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 22:54:57 -0800, Mike Hunt postmaster@localhost
wrote:

:Sarah Czepiel wrote:
:
: On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:45:12 -0800, Mike Hunt postmaster@localhost
: wrote:
:
: :Sarah Czepiel wrote:
: :
: : :The mistaken belief that last minute tickets are a terrorist security issue
: :
: : I didn't say they were a terrorist security issue. I said the
: : scenario raises a red flag.
: :
: : :Airline terrorism events are not last minute planned events
: :
: : Gee, ya think? shakes head....
: :
: :
: : You say it raises a red flag, but not for terrorsism
: :
: :Then, what does it raise a red flag for? Door to door magazine salesmen?
: :
:
: You waste everyoe's time with your silly rand childish esponses. Red
: flags go up for a number of reasons. Someone with an outstanding
: arrest warrent, a BOLO, will red flag.
:
:Are you not thinking clearly?
:Do you believe that the increased chance of getting SSSS on a BP for a
:last minute or one way ticket is NOT related to terrorism security, but
: arrest warrants?

You asked, " Then, what does it raise a red flag for? "
I gave you two examples and now you have your panties even further
into a twist. Just for reference, when was the last time you actually
bought an airline ticket and you yourself went through airport
security?

:So, let's see. A suspected murderer buys a last
:minute one way ticket, get's an SSSS on his ticket..... Then what?
:Assuming he has nothing illegal on him, when screened by TSA, he goes
:free....... What does having extra security screening by TSA have to
:do with looking for someone with an arrest warrant?

On 29 Nov 2006 23:00:55 -0800, "Tchiowa" wrote:

:
:Mike Hunt wrote:
:
: 3. There is no match of BP validity at security,
:
:Of course there is.
:
: nor is there a match of
: names against a suspected terrorist database. There is only a check to
: match name to BP (Use editted BP to get through security)
:
:And photo.

Most photo ID's if they use a drivers license now have some sort of
security measures which make them tamper proof.

I'm suspecting Mike hasn't flown much at all or at least not in recent
years but he sits all day thinking up these goofy "what if " scenarios
for his own entertainment.


: 4. Use real BP to board plane (as gate machine will show name of
: passenger with reservation, so the name on BP has to match the name on
: reservation
:
: Let's stop wasting time on a security dog and pony show.
: We now have at least one extra person at security ASKING people if they
: have liquids. He doesn't inspect anything. He does absolutely NOTHING
: that would prevent terrorism. If TSA really thought an ID check was
: important, the ID/BP check would be done with a watch list database.
:
:Nobody (or at least nobody with any sense) claims that TSA is fixing
:the problem. They are a rather useless government agency. But that's
:not the issue here, is it?

"Mike Hunt" postmaster@localhost wrote in message
news
Tchiowa wrote:

1. You don't need valid ID to get a boarding pass online.
(Buy ticket under a name that would not be on a watch list)


But you have to show ID that matches the boarding pass while you're
clearing security.

So?? The ID being shown is not checked against a watch list

It was at check-in. Isn't the computer age marvelous?

The BP being shown isn't verified against the actual reservation

The computer age, again. Aren't those bar codes and optical character
readers useful? And, boy, the way the passengers' names come up on the
turnstile screen, too.

2. You can easily edit an online boarding pass to change the name to
match an ID. (Edit BP to real name of person on watch list)


Not as easy as you'd think.

Really? You don't think changing the name, dates, times, flight numbers
isn't easy? Why not? Are they printed in special classified fonts?
Do you think the BP checker would even notice a slight font type or size
difference?

The low tech way.
1. Print BP
2. Print page with name and nothing else
3. Cut name of page and paste on top of BP page
4. Copy combined page

Demonstrating a complete lack of understanding of databases.

3. There is no match of BP validity at security,


Of course there is.

NOPE.
There is no check to verify the name on the BP is the name on the
reservation. The person checking the BP has no computer

That's what check-in is for.



nor is there a match of
names against a suspected terrorist database. There is only a check to
match name to BP (Use editted BP to get through security)


And photo.

So? It doesn't mater if the name and photo on the ID match the editted BP,
as the names aren't checked at the check point against a list of suspected
terrorist

They are, at check-in.

trim reiterative babble