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A right to vote: Many U.S. youths abroad are denied
Americans traveling or living overseas have the right to
vote absentee if they lived in the states at one time. However, the situaiont is not so easy for those who have not lived in the US or established residency in a particular state. Earl ***** A right to vote: Many U.S. youths abroad are denied Meg Bortin/IHT , March 9, 2004 * PARIS Many overseas Americans - possibly thousands - may not be able to vote in this year's presidential election because of an omission during the latest round of U.S. electoral reform, according to U.S. officials and organizations representing Americans abroad. Left out of the Help America Vote Act of 2002 were young Americans who have never lived in the United States but who do have U.S. citizenship through an American parent. While some states allow these youths to register at the voting address of their parents, more than three-quarters of the states do not, leaving a significant slice of U.S. citizens abroad effectively disfranchised as they come of age. "There is no federal legislation on this at present," said Polli Brunelli, director of the Federal Voting Assistance Program. "The states are the ones who administer elections. They pass the laws on voting." Twelve states allow Americans who have always resided abroad and are children of U.S. citizens to use a parent's voting address, Brunelli said in a telephone interview from Washington. The states are Delaware, Georgia, Hawaii, Iowa, Massachusetts, New York, Oklahoma, Oregon, Rhode Island, Tennessee, West Virginia and Wisconsin. As for the 38 other states, voting advocates say that the rules are diverse - so diverse, in fact, that it is not clear whether some states even address the issue of foreign-born and raised children of U.S. citizens. So if the parents are registered in one of those 38 states, will first-time overseas voters be able to cast ballots in the Nov. 2 election? "That's what they have to find out," said Glenn Flood, a spokesman for the U.S. Defense Department, which runs the Federal Voting Assistance Program. "They have to submit their application to register, and the state will tell them what the stipulations are." The number of young voters who may be unable to exercise their right to vote is unknown, Flood said by telephone from Washington, because "we don't track U.S. citizens overseas." There is no precise count of Americans abroad, although a U.S. census experiment is under way in three countries - France, Kuwait and Mexico - as a prelude to possibly including overseas citizens in the next full U.S. census in 2010. Estimates vary. According to Flood, potential voters overseas - civilians, military forces and their families - number six million. Organizations representing Americans abroad put the number of civilians overseas at 4.1 million. Of those, the number who have always lived abroad and have turned 18 since the last presidential election in 2000 - when overseas absentee ballots became an issue in the Bush-Gore count - is unknown. "There could be thousands in that category," said Lucy Laederich, a Paris-based nonpartisan advocate for overseas Americans. "But of course we'll never know until we're counted in the census." Barbara Stern, the Paris-based voting director of the Association of Americans Resident Overseas, said that many people had been asking this year about how to register their children. "The problem about Americans overseas is that the numbers are wildly uncertain and nobody has cared," she said. "Now, with the interest in overseas voting, and increasing numbers of absentee overseas voters, there is interest in Washington in trying to identify who we are." How much interest is open to question, however. When the U.S. Congress tackled election reform in the wake of the problems encountered in the Bush-Gore contest in 2000, "overseas voters were not even included in the Senate bill" until the day before its passage, when Senator John Rockefeller, Democrat of West Virginia, introduced an amendment, Laederich said. Rockefeller and two New York congressmen, Representatives Tom Reynolds, Republican, and Carolyn Mahoney, Democrat, had sponsored earlier bills that did take account of the concerns of Americans abroad, with provisions to simplify state rules on voting, eliminate notarization requirements and collect data on overseas citizens. But by the time the House and Senate reached a compromise and adopted the Help America Vote Act, some measures sought by overseas groups, including allowing Americans who have never lived in the States to register at the voting address of their parents, had fallen by the wayside. The act, signed into law by President George W. Bush one week before the November 2002 congressional election, "was designed to ensure that each eligible citizen would have an equal opportunity to cast a vote and have that vote counted," said Veronica Gillespie, elections counsel with the Senate Rules and Administration Committee, who worked on the legislation. However, she added, "the Help America Vote Act has as a guiding principle that it would not change the role of the states in conducting federal, state and local elections. This means the act did not introduce a federal law that governed eligibility requirements for voter registration, voting or counting votes. State law controls voter eligibility." Brunelli, of the Federal Voting Assistance Program, said the program had asked the 38 states that have not yet done so "to pass legislation to enfranchise those U.S. citizens who have never resided in the States." In the meantime, citizens abroad who find themselves unable to register may challenge their state law under a complaints process, said Gillespie, speaking by phone from Washington. People who feel they have been disfranchised, she said, can turn to a law that will permit them to file a complaint with the relevant state. Again, however, the modalities of the complaints are up to the states. While some may post regulations on the Internet, making them accessible to overseas voters, others may post them on the statehouse door - and there is no guarantee that a voter who files a challenge will win. On the positive front, said Laederich, the advocate for overseas Americans, it has become easier since 2000 to get registration forms and request ballots online. For most states, the Federal Post Card Application needed to register as an absentee can be obtained at www.fvap.gov/pubs/onlinefpca.html. Another advance is that the Help America Vote Act extended the registration period for overseas voters to four years, so that registering now for the Nov. 2 election will also entitle voters to cast ballots in the 2006 congressional elections. Flood, too, spoke of a rebirth of citizen interest and said that many more people have been calling in this year for information from the Federal Voting Assistance Program. Toll-free numbers exist in 64 countries to allow Americans to contact the program, which can patch them through to their local voting district. The numbers can be obtained online at www.fvap.gov/services/tollfree.html. fawco.org has a full panoply of information about voting for overseas Americans, with links to many other sites. www.fvap.gov is the official site of the Federal Voting Assistance Program. www.census.gov/overseas04 is the U.S. Census Bureau's site for overseas Americans in France, Kuwait and Mexico who wish to take part in the February-July test census. Copyright © 2003 The In |
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A right to vote: Many U.S. youths abroad are denied
On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 15:51:58 +0100, Earl Evleth
wrote: Americans traveling or living overseas have the right to vote absentee if they lived in the states at one time. However, the situaiont is not so easy for those who have not lived in the US or established residency in a particular state. Assumoing we're talking about the presidential election, there are a couple of major sytematic problems. For one, voting is controlled at the state level. Unless a specific state has some provision for this, such as allowing votre registration in the parents' state (assuming they have one) they will be unable to vote (this problem applies to all other elections as well). For another, the voters do not choose the president, but vote for members of the Electoral College who does the actual voting; this is why Bush was elected despite the fact that Gore garnered a few more votes. since the members of the electoral college represent states, a national voter registration won't solve this problem. And of course, some philosophical questions are raised: should someone who had never resided in the USA and probably pays no taxes to the USA, nor partakes of any other of the responsibilities of a US resident, be allowed to vote? ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
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A right to vote: Many U.S. youths abroad are denied
Hatunen wrote: On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 15:51:58 +0100, Earl Evleth wrote: Americans traveling or living overseas have the right to vote absentee if they lived in the states at one time. However, the situaiont is not so easy for those who have not lived in the US or established residency in a particular state. Assumoing we're talking about the presidential election, there are a couple of major sytematic problems. For one, voting is controlled at the state level. Unless a specific state has some provision for this, such as allowing votre registration in the parents' state (assuming they have one) they will be unable to vote (this problem applies to all other elections as well). For another, the voters do not choose the president, but vote for members of the Electoral College who does the actual voting; this is why Bush was elected despite the fact that Gore garnered a few more votes. since the members of the electoral college represent states, a national voter registration won't solve this problem. And of course, some philosophical questions are raised: should someone who had never resided in the USA and probably pays no taxes to the USA, nor partakes of any other of the responsibilities of a US resident, be allowed to vote? Good point, Dave. What about American students living abroad (exchange students, etc.)? Of course, when I was "student" age, voting age was still 21, so few college students quaified, but how does that work, now? ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
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A right to vote: Many U.S. youths abroad are denied
In article , Divamanque
wrote: Hatunen wrote: On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 15:51:58 +0100, Earl Evleth wrote: Americans traveling or living overseas have the right to vote absentee if they lived in the states at one time. However, the situaiont is not so easy for those who have not lived in the US or established residency in a particular state. Assumoing we're talking about the presidential election, there are a couple of major sytematic problems. For one, voting is controlled at the state level. Unless a specific state has some provision for this, such as allowing votre registration in the parents' state (assuming they have one) they will be unable to vote (this problem applies to all other elections as well). For another, the voters do not choose the president, but vote for members of the Electoral College who does the actual voting; this is why Bush was elected despite the fact that Gore garnered a few more votes. since the members of the electoral college represent states, a national voter registration won't solve this problem. And of course, some philosophical questions are raised: should someone who had never resided in the USA and probably pays no taxes to the USA, nor partakes of any other of the responsibilities of a US resident, be allowed to vote? Good point, Dave. What about American students living abroad (exchange students, etc.)? Of course, when I was "student" age, voting age was still 21, so few college students quaified, but how does that work, now? So you don't read the official election material sent to you by the State of California? Why am I not surprised. jay Sun Mar 14, 2004 ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
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A right to vote: Many U.S. youths abroad are denied
Hatunen wrote:
And of course, some philosophical questions are raised: should someone who had never resided in the USA and probably pays no taxes to the USA, nor partakes of any other of the responsibilities of a US resident, be allowed to vote? Anyone who bears the burden of a US passport should be allowed to vote in their elections. cheers, Henry |
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A right to vote: Many U.S. youths abroad are denied
On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:55:10 -0800,
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote: Hatunen wrote: On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 15:51:58 +0100, Earl Evleth wrote: Americans traveling or living overseas have the right to vote absentee if they lived in the states at one time. However, the situaiont is not so easy for those who have not lived in the US or established residency in a particular state. Assumoing we're talking about the presidential election, there are a couple of major sytematic problems. For one, voting is controlled at the state level. Unless a specific state has some provision for this, such as allowing votre registration in the parents' state (assuming they have one) they will be unable to vote (this problem applies to all other elections as well). For another, the voters do not choose the president, but vote for members of the Electoral College who does the actual voting; this is why Bush was elected despite the fact that Gore garnered a few more votes. since the members of the electoral college represent states, a national voter registration won't solve this problem. And of course, some philosophical questions are raised: should someone who had never resided in the USA and probably pays no taxes to the USA, nor partakes of any other of the responsibilities of a US resident, be allowed to vote? Good point, Dave. What about American students living abroad (exchange students, etc.)? Of course, when I was "student" age, voting age was still 21, so few college students quaified, but how does that work, now? Being long past 21 I hesitate to say. I know anyone absentee can register to vote by mail and vote absentee ballot by mail. ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
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A right to vote: Many U.S. youths abroad are denied
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A right to vote: Many U.S. youths abroad are denied
On 14/03/04 19:20, in article ,
"Hatunen" wrote: And of course, some philosophical questions are raised: should someone who had never resided in the USA and probably pays no taxes to the USA, nor partakes of any other of the responsibilities of a US resident, be allowed to vote? All American citizens, whereever they live are required to file a IRS return which contains the global income. If they have no taxable income they don`t have to file. But a majority of adults will have an income. They may not have a tax to pay, since the earned income exclusion may wipe out any taxable income. But unearned (investment, real estate, capital gains) are taxable. Even pensions paid overseas can be taxable. Those who obtain their US passports overseas will also have their names and addresses shared with the IRS. Of course there are people who don`t comply and pay no taxes. I don`t know of any provision anywhere that a person only has the right to vote only if they pay their taxes, however. We vote absentee through our last address in the US, which is in the state of California. Their web pages explains the law http://www.ss.ca.gov/elections/elections_m.htm Our situation is is explained in the section ***** "Military/Overseas Absentee Voting If you are a US citizen and are going to be overseas or if you are in the military and wish to vote absentee, there are special provisions for you to register and receive an overseas absentee ballot. To do this you may need to complete a "Federal Post Card Registration and Absentee Ballot Request," and mail it to your local county elections official. Overseas Absentee Ballot (Federal Post Card and Absentee Ballot Request,) ***** One receives a special ballot only having national office holders (president, vice president, senator and representative) so one does not vote for state offices, bond issues etc. Since one is not living in the state and does not pay taxes to the state, it is seen as right to have the power for vote on these issues. But for national office, one is represented. So the issue of "no taxation without representation˛ is not there. Except for those who can not find a place to vote. We ourselves have complied with US tax law for every year we have been overseas and have voted absentee for 30 years. Earl |
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A right to vote: Many U.S. youths abroad are denied
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A right to vote: Many U.S. youths abroad are denied
Hatunen wrote: On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 07:17:32 +0200, (Henry) wrote: Hatunen wrote: And of course, some philosophical questions are raised: should someone who had never resided in the USA and probably pays no taxes to the USA, nor partakes of any other of the responsibilities of a US resident, be allowed to vote? Anyone who bears the burden of a US passport should be allowed to vote in their elections. I wasn't aware that it was a burden. It was intended as a philosophical note. In that vein, surely you think that voters should be aware of the issues before voting? I wonder how someone who has never set foot on American soil would know enough to make an informed choice. I have the same "wonder" about many of the voters who live here! Back when Kennedy was elected, I worked with a Japanese-American woman who, although born in Hawaii and hence an American citizen, had spent most of her life in Japan (she was about forty when I knew her). She had only recently come to the U.S., and when one of our co-workers asked who she had voted for, she replied "the handsome one". (Which presumably meant Kennedy - I don't think anyone would have called his opponent "handsome".) ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
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