British Airways flight grounded in Helsinki

Mårten Trolin wrote:

If I read you correctly, your reasoning is based on the assumption that
consuming a bottle of beer makes all of the ethanol go directly into the
blood system, which (fortunately) is not the case.

That was the hypothetical basis of the calculation, yes.

As a matter of fact,
0.5% of alcohol in the blood is enough to kill most humans.

False.

A quick
google search turned up this page --
http://members.aol.com/intoxikon/alcohol.poisoning.html.

This fellow is just another one of the confused-decimal crowd.

Look at what he says:

"...[the lethal dose is] about .40% .... For a 100 lb. man or woman
drinking very quickly, it would only require about 8-10 drinks in an
hour to reach the lethal level."

If a typical human's blood volume is five litres, .40% is only 20 ml.
The calculation I presented shows that 8-10 drinks yield about 150 ml of
pure alcohol. If it takes 8-10 quick drinks to put the fatal 20 ml of
alcohol into the bloodstream, where does the other 130 ml go? Alcohol is
not digested but absorbed directly into the bloodstream. Alcohol is
metabolised over time, thus eliminating its effect. (That's why your
'expert' stipulates "drinking very quickly" and why I, for the purpose
of my example, assumed 'instant effect'.) But if there is no time, or
very little time, elapsed--not enough for metabolisation to take
place--then I ask again: what happens to the other 130 ml of alcohol? If
20 ml are enough to kill, why does his example involve 150?

Because...the lethal dose is 4%, not 1/10th of that amount--which is
what .4% is.

I stand by my exposition.

cheers,

Henry

Henry wrote:

Mårten Trolin wrote:


If I read you correctly, your reasoning is based on the assumption that
consuming a bottle of beer makes all of the ethanol go directly into the
blood system, which (fortunately) is not the case.


That was the hypothetical basis of the calculation, yes.


As a matter of fact,
0.5% of alcohol in the blood is enough to kill most humans.


False.


A quick
google search turned up this page --
http://members.aol.com/intoxikon/alcohol.poisoning.html.


This fellow is just another one of the confused-decimal crowd.

Some more googling gave me this:

http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/publication...-1/110-120.htm

They specify the lethal level to be about 0.5 grams ethanol per
decilitre blood, which roughly translates to 0.5% (since one decilitre
blood weighs about 100 grams).

One possible source of confusion is that (at least here) alcohol level
is measured in per mil (parts per thousand) instead of percent. Here the
legal limit is 2 per mil, which is 0.2%.

Mårten

Henry wrote:

Mårten Trolin wrote:


If I read you correctly, your reasoning is based on the assumption that
consuming a bottle of beer makes all of the ethanol go directly into the
blood system, which (fortunately) is not the case.


That was the hypothetical basis of the calculation, yes.


As a matter of fact,
0.5% of alcohol in the blood is enough to kill most humans.


False.


A quick
google search turned up this page --
http://members.aol.com/intoxikon/alcohol.poisoning.html.


This fellow is just another one of the confused-decimal crowd.

Some more googling gave me this:

http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/publication...-1/110-120.htm

They specify the lethal level to be about 0.5 grams ethanol per
decilitre blood, which roughly translates to 0.5% (since one decilitre
blood weighs about 100 grams).

One possible source of confusion is that (at least here) alcohol level
is measured in per mil (parts per thousand) instead of percent. Here the
legal limit is 2 per mil, which is 0.2%.

Mårten

Mårten Trolin wrote:


Some more googling gave me this:

http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/publication...-1/110-120.htm

They specify the lethal level to be about 0.5 grams ethanol per
decilitre blood, which roughly translates to 0.5% (since one decilitre
blood weighs about 100 grams).

One possible source of confusion is that (at least here) alcohol level
is measured in per mil (parts per thousand) instead of percent. Here the
legal limit is 2 per mil, which is 0.2%.

Sorry, but the sources get stranger and stranger. This one says

"With 20 drinks in 1 hour, an average male weighing 160 pounds could
reach a BAC level beyond 0.40 grams/deciliter. At this point...coma or
death may occur."

So if 20 drinks in an hour causes that, then 10 drinks in an hour causes
a level of 0.20 grams/decilitre, which roughly translates to 0.2%, which
is 2 per mil, which is the legal limit in Sweden.

???

You can drive there after having 10 drinks in one hour?

cheers,

Henry

Henry wrote:

Mårten Trolin wrote:



Some more googling gave me this:

http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/publication...-1/110-120.htm

They specify the lethal level to be about 0.5 grams ethanol per
decilitre blood, which roughly translates to 0.5% (since one decilitre
blood weighs about 100 grams).

One possible source of confusion is that (at least here) alcohol level
is measured in per mil (parts per thousand) instead of percent. Here the
legal limit is 2 per mil, which is 0.2%.


Sorry, but the sources get stranger and stranger.

Oops, my typo. The legal limit is 0.2 per mil, e.g., 0.02%. Sorry about
that!

Mårten

One possible source of confusion is that (at least here) alcohol level
is measured in per mil (parts per thousand) instead of percent. Here the
legal limit is 2 per mil, which is 0.2%.


Sorry, but the sources get stranger and stranger.

Oops, my typo. The legal limit is 0.2 per mil, i.e., 0.02%, which should
amount to about one drink. Sorry about that!

Mårten

One possible source of confusion is that (at least here) alcohol level
is measured in per mil (parts per thousand) instead of percent. Here the
legal limit is 2 per mil, which is 0.2%.


Sorry, but the sources get stranger and stranger.

Oops, my typo. The legal limit is 0.2 per mil, i.e., 0.02%, which should
amount to about one drink. Sorry about that!

Mårten

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:02:20 +0300, (Henry)
wrote:

One suspects that the American limit is actually 0.8% -- "eight-tenths
of one percent" -- or (for our five litre subject) the amount of alcohol
in approximately two and a half bottles of strong beer.

What one suspects is irrelevant.

CALIFORNIA CODES
VEHICLE CODE
SECTION 23152-23229.1

23152. (a) It is unlawful for any person who is
under the influence of any alcoholic beverage or
drug, or under the combined influence of any
alcoholic beverage and drug, to drive a vehicle.
(b) It is unlawful for any person who has
0.08 percent or more, by weight, of alcohol in
his or her blood to drive a vehicle.

[...]

Perhaps there is an error in your reasoning somewhere.


************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:02:20 +0300, (Henry)
wrote:

One suspects that the American limit is actually 0.8% -- "eight-tenths
of one percent" -- or (for our five litre subject) the amount of alcohol
in approximately two and a half bottles of strong beer.

What one suspects is irrelevant.

CALIFORNIA CODES
VEHICLE CODE
SECTION 23152-23229.1

23152. (a) It is unlawful for any person who is
under the influence of any alcoholic beverage or
drug, or under the combined influence of any
alcoholic beverage and drug, to drive a vehicle.
(b) It is unlawful for any person who has
0.08 percent or more, by weight, of alcohol in
his or her blood to drive a vehicle.

[...]

Perhaps there is an error in your reasoning somewhere.


************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Hatunen wrote:
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 21:08:55 -0400, Mikko Peltoniemi
wrote:


Birgit Kleymann wrote:


Hats off to the alert people of the Ilmailulaitos (Finnish CAA)...
A couple of years ago they grounded a Lufthansa flight because both
pilots failed a pre-flight breathalyser test.

Today's paper still has some small additional details, that two of
the cabin crew registered over 0.5% on the breathalyzer. And the
captain decided not to fly, until they got two more cabin crew from
London to fill in.


They should hardly have been able to stand up at 0.5%; that's
over six times the legal limit for driving in the USA at 0.08%.

Are you sure they didn't register 0.05%?

Yes, at .5%, it wouldn't be a bit difficult to show up for work.