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#81
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OT- Happy Birthday USA!
"Jean O'Boyle" wrote in message news I really do not think we are over reacting, Ben..Other nations have had to deal with terror before we did, but the thing was that we thought that we were untouchable and comfortable in thinking that something like that would never happen to us and lived our lives without giving terror a thought until the horrific incidents on 9-11... 9-11 wasn't the first. We've had things like the Pan Am flight over Scotland, Oklahoma City and the first bombing of the WTC's. To say we haven't given terror a thought isn't fair to the people in Oklahoma City or that lost loved ones on the Pan Am flight. Partisianship has destroyed the workings of our government to the point that when a good thing is put on the table by one party, the other in its efforts to not to allow the opposite party get the credit for the good thing, will vote against it. It is true of both parties. I think you hit the nail on the head. --Tom |
#82
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OT- Happy Birthday USA!
"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message ink.net... In article , "Jean O'Boyle" wrote: The other is that much of terror was essentially homegrown. The IRA in England and Ireland, the Basque seperatists in Spain, McVie here in the US. It is one thing to have your own kind blow you up and quite a bit different to be attacked from outside. I'm not sure I see a difference whether it's your own people or someone else who blows up your buildings and kills hundreds or thousands of people. Are you saying it's worse if it's your own people? Or worse if it's someone outside? --Tom |
#83
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OT- Happy Birthday USA!
In article , "Tom & Linda"
wrote: I'm not sure I see a difference whether it's your own people or someone else who blows up your buildings and kills hundreds or thousands of people. Are you saying it's worse if it's your own people? Or worse if it's someone outside? I am saying that from a psychological standpoint it is worse to be attacked from outside. We see a greater danger from all those "outsiders" as opposed to what we are sure is just a rabid minority when it is one our own. Now, how real, that perception is, I don't know. Haven't seen anything in the way of studies or anything, just my opinion from talking to people, etc. -- "Salary is the only biological variable which peaks after the age of 25. Somebody once suggested female libido is another but I completely reject that because female libido and salary are not independent variables." Dr. Neil Barnes |
#84
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OT- Happy Birthday USA!
Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article , "Tom & Linda" wrote: I'm not sure I see a difference whether it's your own people or someone else who blows up your buildings and kills hundreds or thousands of people. Are you saying it's worse if it's your own people? Or worse if it's someone outside? I am saying that from a psychological standpoint it is worse to be attacked from outside. We see a greater danger from all those "outsiders" as opposed to what we are sure is just a rabid minority when it is one our own. Now, how real, that perception is, I don't know. Haven't seen anything in the way of studies or anything, just my opinion from talking to people, etc. That's right, and that's why I say get at the psychological underpinnings of the "why" of this form of terrorism. I view it as a means and not as a philosophy. I see it as this. The Muslim world had a great period. A time when Islam almost led the world and was ahead of the Western World. Through various conquest on both sides, the Muslim world came out the also ran. They are behind the Western world. The British had much to do with the "outsiders" who reshaped the Muslim world, created false borders, supported dictators and those with concepts different to the culture/history/religions of the people. The U.S., at this point, is the new Britain and has intervened in the affairs of the Muslim world. I think that we are not up against religious radicals but revolutionaries who are using religion as a unifying point to create a large variety of people in various lands, and the discipline of the "pure" religion will lead them to their "righteous" place. To me this has nothing to do with frequent American claims of they want to kill us, they don't like our freedoms, or anything of that nature. Why do they target innocent people? Because they have been killed in their lands by those either supported by Western powers or by the powers themselves. Vengeance. I justify none of this killing. The psychology of the defeated is what is leading to revolt, which is taking the form of what we call "terrorism". The psychology of the wounded, us in 9/11, the hubris of us who for some reason should never be attacked on out own soil yet it is OK for us to attack others on theirs, these two psychologically wounded (although ours is "nouveau") are at odds and I fear will only lead to escalating violence. Ben S. -- "Salary is the only biological variable which peaks after the age of 25. Somebody once suggested female libido is another but I completely reject that because female libido and salary are not independent variables." Dr. Neil Barnes |
#85
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OT- Happy Birthday USA!
Jean O'Boyle wrote:
Ben, I think that there are more people who care than those who do not..All they need to do is think of the horror that they would feel if one of their loved ones was being tortured or starving.. The thought of my little grandchildren being in that position would drive me up the wall..I could NOT bear it and would die to prevent it. Thanks for your comments, interesting to read contrasting views to mine. Along those lines, there's one thing I want to address and truly bothers me. This was brought up by the father of the young man who was beheaded, Mr. Berg. For those that may not be aware, Mr. Berg is strongly opposed to the Iraq war and is a strong critic of the Bush administration. I see very little care and concern from our media and govt with Afghan and Iraqi civilian casualties. Much of the rest of the world, even though with some countries it is a form of propaganda, show the human suffering and face of war as it impacts the civilian populace and come up with a number for Afghan and Iraqi civilian deaths and wounded. Our media and government have done an abysmal job in this respect. There's almost no mention or concern whatsoever for this. While people in Europe, India, Asia, and other areas can see the situations in hospitals, the number of profiles of broken families with family members loss as "collateral damage", I just don't see these profiles in our media coverage very often. And let's get a count. If, say, 3400 people were killed in 9/11, that's 3400 people in a land of 270 million ( or whatever our population is right now). Afghanistan estimated dead is between 7,000 to over 10,000 and that's of 24 million people, so that's a bigger percentage of their people. Iraq may have the same amount and their population is maybe 2 times that of Afghanistan. We have plenty civilian organizations that care. But on the official government and media level, I'm seeing a lot of selective caring, caring for those that lose their lives from our declared enemies, but not a lot of caring for the love ones of those we kill. Ben S. --Jean |
#86
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OT- Happy Birthday USA!
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#87
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OT- Happy Birthday USA!- OT
On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 21:13:52 GMT, "Jean O'Boyle"
wrote: It reminds me of what happens when people stop caring about each other and bury their heads in the sand pretending that something bad is not happening to others.. Like pedophilic priests who get moved around to destroy the lives of children all across our nation? Sorta like that? |
#88
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OT- Happy Birthday USA!
On 05 Jul 2004 17:31:33 GMT, (Lunyma) wrote:
I love my country too... Still waiting for the benefits though. Don't drive the interstate? |
#89
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OT- Happy Birthday USA!
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