WTK: Questions about travel legal issues (denied boarding passes to asia)

Ok, hypothetical question. Actually i'm taking a real experience and
puting a twist on it for reasons I wont go into.

Say you book tickets to fly to somewhere in asia from the united
states one way. Say on your way you go through a country, that for
some reason, hates americans, or whatever. Lets say france.

You fly one way to save money. You confirm your tickets 72 hours
before you go. No problems. You get on the plane in the usa and get
to the first airport you transfer flights from. You get through
customs. No problem. They ask for your tickets. No problem. They
stamp your visa. No problem. You have a 12 hour layover. You wait.
Ticket booth opens you to go to get your boarding passes.

First problem. They wont give them to you. They have all kinds of
storys and wont listen to reason (like the most obvious one, not
having ongoing tickets wasnt really a problem was it?). They even
claim they can be fined $25,000 per infraction for flying to asia one
way.

They then try to sell you a ticket thats 2-5x more expensive than the
one you bought (without bothering to upgrade the one you already
bought). They claim that "this happens all the time". And that they
"cant control how people buy tickets but wont honor one way tickets to
asia". Sound like crap right?

Indeed. If there was some policy, it would have been communicated at
least, at customs. The fact that they check you through then try and
sell you a more expensive ticket.... Not giving you boarding passes
you paid for?

Now, we get down to the heart of the situation. What laws apply to
such situation? What federal laws govern these kind of issues? I was
told after I got back by several people that they should have given
the person return flight back. No return tickets were offered and no
other help or suggestion was given.

Why are they selling one way tickets they do not intend to honor?
Why didnt they say anything at the ticket booth in the usa airport
when the tickets were confirmed?

I'm thinking application of RICO might wake some people up over there.
I just read about how a recent federal complaint against the usa by
brazilian politican for its immigration laws applyed to travelers.

It gets the ball rolling at least right? If there are federal laws
that are broken here and the airline/airport is making money selling
fradulent tickets and then double booking/bait-and-switching.... then
RICO is very relevant here.

Also, there are safety concerns at the airport (power outtages). They
had several while this person was there. An unregulated work
enviornment is ripe territory for opportunism and corruption.

This pretext about 'infractions for sending people one way into a
country' is confusing. When did this arbitrary rule start being
applyed? Its up to the customs of the contry of arrival to decide if
they want to accept someone according to their terms. Do they always
check or care if they have ongoing tickets? Hell no. I'm not stupid.
I wasnt born yesterday.

Even so, on top of this, they try to play it of by sayign "you can buy
a refundable ticket to get by the rules". Great, it only costs 4x
more than the ticket they already bought. How is "getting around the
rules" not an infraction? If its such an important rule, why is it
being usurped by some spurious tactics like "buying a refundable
ticket"?

I think there are several particulars that would be interested in
hearing about what the airline/airport are doing. Someone needs to
find out why there is no coordination between the customs in the
airport and the ticket boots in the usa airports. Also the target
destinations. There was another girl there getting a hassle and she
was going to shanghai.

The governments of china and the HKSAR should hear about this. The
airline/airport should be stopped in selling one way tickets. The
should refund all one way tickets they sold to any wholesaler in the
usa that were not honored (talk about a can of worms someone wants
kept closed)

Ok, its different now after 9/11. But "france" has nothing to do with
this. As we can see now, these issues of grounded flights, flights
not given permission to land in the usa, is going to cause quite a
stirl when people start suing to get tickets refuned that werent used
because the plane was grounded enroute.

The complaint filed with a federal district court is good route I
think. The question comes down to what laws, rules, regulations can
be looked up, referenced or cited in a complaint?

Letters to the airine, governors office, and wholesaler really havent
done much. People mail copys of this and that and are taking it as a
"bad service complaint". They will take it seriously when the
complaint is attached to a summons, no?

If you have or heard of similar situation, let me know. Esp. on
traveling to asia on a one way ticket.

Please carbon copy relevant replys to my email.


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"Gold" schreef in bericht
...
Say on your way you go through a country, that for
some reason, hates americans, or whatever. Lets say france.

France or the French don't hate Americans, it is the other way around.

Sjoerd

On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 03:21:18 -0500, Gold wrote:

Ok, hypothetical question. Actually i'm taking a real experience and
puting a twist on it for reasons I wont go into.

Say you book tickets to fly to somewhere in asia from the united
states one way. Say on your way you go through a country, that for
some reason, hates americans, or whatever. Lets say france.

You fly one way to save money. You confirm your tickets 72 hours
before you go. No problems. You get on the plane in the usa and get
to the first airport you transfer flights from. You get through
customs. No problem. They ask for your tickets. No problem. They
stamp your visa. No problem. You have a 12 hour layover. You wait.
Ticket booth opens you to go to get your boarding passes.

First problem. They wont give them to you. They have all kinds of
storys and wont listen to reason (like the most obvious one, not
having ongoing tickets wasnt really a problem was it?). They even
claim they can be fined $25,000 per infraction for flying to asia one
way.

They then try to sell you a ticket thats 2-5x more expensive than the
one you bought (without bothering to upgrade the one you already
bought). They claim that "this happens all the time". And that they
"cant control how people buy tickets but wont honor one way tickets to
asia". Sound like crap right?

Indeed. If there was some policy, it would have been communicated at
least, at customs. The fact that they check you through then try and
sell you a more expensive ticket.... Not giving you boarding passes
you paid for?

Now, we get down to the heart of the situation. What laws apply to
such situation? What federal laws govern these kind of issues? I was
told after I got back by several people that they should have given
the person return flight back. No return tickets were offered and no
other help or suggestion was given.

Why are they selling one way tickets they do not intend to honor?
Why didnt they say anything at the ticket booth in the usa airport
when the tickets were confirmed?

I'm thinking application of RICO might wake some people up over there.
I just read about how a recent federal complaint against the usa by
brazilian politican for its immigration laws applyed to travelers.

It gets the ball rolling at least right? If there are federal laws
that are broken here and the airline/airport is making money selling
fradulent tickets and then double booking/bait-and-switching.... then
RICO is very relevant here.

Also, there are safety concerns at the airport (power outtages). They
had several while this person was there. An unregulated work
enviornment is ripe territory for opportunism and corruption.

This pretext about 'infractions for sending people one way into a
country' is confusing. When did this arbitrary rule start being
applyed? Its up to the customs of the contry of arrival to decide if
they want to accept someone according to their terms. Do they always
check or care if they have ongoing tickets? Hell no. I'm not stupid.
I wasnt born yesterday.

Even so, on top of this, they try to play it of by sayign "you can buy
a refundable ticket to get by the rules". Great, it only costs 4x
more than the ticket they already bought. How is "getting around the
rules" not an infraction? If its such an important rule, why is it
being usurped by some spurious tactics like "buying a refundable
ticket"?

I think there are several particulars that would be interested in
hearing about what the airline/airport are doing. Someone needs to
find out why there is no coordination between the customs in the
airport and the ticket boots in the usa airports. Also the target
destinations. There was another girl there getting a hassle and she
was going to shanghai.

The governments of china and the HKSAR should hear about this. The
airline/airport should be stopped in selling one way tickets. The
should refund all one way tickets they sold to any wholesaler in the
usa that were not honored (talk about a can of worms someone wants
kept closed)

Ok, its different now after 9/11. But "france" has nothing to do with
this. As we can see now, these issues of grounded flights, flights
not given permission to land in the usa, is going to cause quite a
stirl when people start suing to get tickets refuned that werent used
because the plane was grounded enroute.

The complaint filed with a federal district court is good route I
think. The question comes down to what laws, rules, regulations can
be looked up, referenced or cited in a complaint?

Letters to the airine, governors office, and wholesaler really havent
done much. People mail copys of this and that and are taking it as a
"bad service complaint". They will take it seriously when the
complaint is attached to a summons, no?

If you have or heard of similar situation, let me know. Esp. on
traveling to asia on a one way ticket.

Please carbon copy relevant replys to my email.

Many countries require you to have a return ticket on arrival, or else
want you to obtain a visa prior to travel. This has nothing to do with
hating Americans - the same thing would apply to French or German
passengers. If this situation arose because you failed to obtain a
visa for the country you were going to you have only yourself to
blame. Check the rules next time or else find a travel agent that will
look after you better if you can do those things for yourself.

"Sjoerd" schreef in bericht
...

"Gold" schreef in bericht
...
Say on your way you go through a country, that for
some reason, hates americans, or whatever. Lets say france.

France or the French don't hate Americans, it is the other way around.
Sjoerd

Where did you get that from ?

The french arrogancy is not just directed to the US, they also dislike for
instance the dutch
(because of their ultra-left-liberal drugs policy and for some other
reasons)

"Dieter Aaa" Dieter schreef in bericht
...

"Sjoerd" schreef in bericht
...

"Gold" schreef in bericht
...
Say on your way you go through a country, that for
some reason, hates americans, or whatever. Lets say france.

France or the French don't hate Americans, it is the other way around.
Sjoerd

Where did you get that from ?

Senators re-naming French fries to "freedom fries", large segments of the US
population boycotting French wines, numerous posts by Americans on
newsgroups asking whether they will be safe in France (reflecting the
anti-French reporting in US newsmedia), etc.


The french arrogancy is not just directed to the US, they also dislike for
instance the dutch
(because of their ultra-left-liberal drugs policy and for some other
reasons)


That's Mr. Chirac and a few other French. Lots of French people would like
to copy Dutch drug laws. I have never noticed any anti-Dutch feelings on my
travels to France. (and I speak reasonable French) The French have better
things to do than "hate the Dutch" (or any other nationality for that
matter)

Sjoerd

"Sjoerd"


France or the French don't hate Americans, it is the other way around.
Sjoerd

Where did you get that from ?

Senators re-naming French fries to "freedom fries", large segments of the
US
population boycotting French wines, numerous posts by Americans on
newsgroups asking whether they will be safe in France (reflecting the
anti-French reporting in US newsmedia), etc.


They have all good reasons to do so, don't they ?




The french arrogancy is not just directed to the US, they also dislike
for
instance the dutch
(because of their ultra-left-liberal drugs policy and for some other
reasons)


That's Mr. Chirac and a few other French. Lots of French people would like
to copy Dutch drug laws.

For sure you got this whisdom from the "Volkskrant" or other PC newspapers
isn't it ?


I have never noticed any anti-Dutch feelings on my
travels to France. (and I speak reasonable French)

bull....
(but a good try)

"Dieter Aaa" Dieter schreef in bericht
...

"Sjoerd"


France or the French don't hate Americans, it is the other way
around.
Sjoerd

Where did you get that from ?

Senators re-naming French fries to "freedom fries", large segments of
the
US
population boycotting French wines, numerous posts by Americans on
newsgroups asking whether they will be safe in France (reflecting the
anti-French reporting in US newsmedia), etc.


They have all good reasons to do so, don't they ?

We don't agree.


The french arrogancy is not just directed to the US, they also dislike
for
instance the dutch
(because of their ultra-left-liberal drugs policy and for some other
reasons)


That's Mr. Chirac and a few other French. Lots of French people would
like
to copy Dutch drug laws.

For sure you got this whisdom from the "Volkskrant" or other PC newspapers
isn't it ?

And Het Parool, and Le Monde, and CNN, and BBC, and a few dozen other
newsmedia from left to right and from left liberal to very conservative.


I have never noticed any anti-Dutch feelings on my
travels to France. (and I speak reasonable French)

bull....
(but a good try)

Most Belgians I know are nice folk, but you are the exception to the rule.
(assuming you are a Belgian)

Sjoerd

Here is a question i always liked someone to answer regarding fake or not.

Lets assume a big company would like a company in China to make this
product, an order of 1 million was requested, this company made the one
million requested and had it shipped out, in the same process as making the
1 million they also ran an extra million for themselves to sell on in there
own market.

Is this classed as fake?


"Sjoerd" wrote in message
...

"Gold" schreef in bericht
...
Say on your way you go through a country, that for
some reason, hates americans, or whatever. Lets say france.

France or the French don't hate Americans, it is the other way around.

Sjoerd

Flying to Asia from the US thru France? You need a better travel agent.

If you are denied a boarding pass in your very twisted scenario, it's the
airline that denies you. Not some hypothetical country.

If you bought your ticket in the US, and if that airline operates in the US,
then you may have a claim when you get back to the US.

"Gold" wrote in message
...
Ok, hypothetical question. Actually i'm taking a real experience and
puting a twist on it for reasons I wont go into.

Say you book tickets to fly to somewhere in asia from the united
states one way. Say on your way you go through a country, that for
some reason, hates americans, or whatever. Lets say france.

You fly one way to save money. You confirm your tickets 72 hours
before you go. No problems. You get on the plane in the usa and get
to the first airport you transfer flights from. You get through
customs. No problem. They ask for your tickets. No problem. They
stamp your visa. No problem. You have a 12 hour layover. You wait.
Ticket booth opens you to go to get your boarding passes.

First problem. They wont give them to you. They have all kinds of
storys and wont listen to reason (like the most obvious one, not
having ongoing tickets wasnt really a problem was it?). They even
claim they can be fined $25,000 per infraction for flying to asia one
way.

They then try to sell you a ticket thats 2-5x more expensive than the
one you bought (without bothering to upgrade the one you already
bought). They claim that "this happens all the time". And that they
"cant control how people buy tickets but wont honor one way tickets to
asia". Sound like crap right?

Indeed. If there was some policy, it would have been communicated at
least, at customs. The fact that they check you through then try and
sell you a more expensive ticket.... Not giving you boarding passes
you paid for?

Now, we get down to the heart of the situation. What laws apply to
such situation? What federal laws govern these kind of issues? I was
told after I got back by several people that they should have given
the person return flight back. No return tickets were offered and no
other help or suggestion was given.

Why are they selling one way tickets they do not intend to honor?
Why didnt they say anything at the ticket booth in the usa airport
when the tickets were confirmed?

I'm thinking application of RICO might wake some people up over there.
I just read about how a recent federal complaint against the usa by
brazilian politican for its immigration laws applyed to travelers.

It gets the ball rolling at least right? If there are federal laws
that are broken here and the airline/airport is making money selling
fradulent tickets and then double booking/bait-and-switching.... then
RICO is very relevant here.

Also, there are safety concerns at the airport (power outtages). They
had several while this person was there. An unregulated work
enviornment is ripe territory for opportunism and corruption.

This pretext about 'infractions for sending people one way into a
country' is confusing. When did this arbitrary rule start being
applyed? Its up to the customs of the contry of arrival to decide if
they want to accept someone according to their terms. Do they always
check or care if they have ongoing tickets? Hell no. I'm not stupid.
I wasnt born yesterday.

Even so, on top of this, they try to play it of by sayign "you can buy
a refundable ticket to get by the rules". Great, it only costs 4x
more than the ticket they already bought. How is "getting around the
rules" not an infraction? If its such an important rule, why is it
being usurped by some spurious tactics like "buying a refundable
ticket"?

I think there are several particulars that would be interested in
hearing about what the airline/airport are doing. Someone needs to
find out why there is no coordination between the customs in the
airport and the ticket boots in the usa airports. Also the target
destinations. There was another girl there getting a hassle and she
was going to shanghai.

The governments of china and the HKSAR should hear about this. The
airline/airport should be stopped in selling one way tickets. The
should refund all one way tickets they sold to any wholesaler in the
usa that were not honored (talk about a can of worms someone wants
kept closed)

Ok, its different now after 9/11. But "france" has nothing to do with
this. As we can see now, these issues of grounded flights, flights
not given permission to land in the usa, is going to cause quite a
stirl when people start suing to get tickets refuned that werent used
because the plane was grounded enroute.

The complaint filed with a federal district court is good route I
think. The question comes down to what laws, rules, regulations can
be looked up, referenced or cited in a complaint?

Letters to the airine, governors office, and wholesaler really havent
done much. People mail copys of this and that and are taking it as a
"bad service complaint". They will take it seriously when the
complaint is attached to a summons, no?

If you have or heard of similar situation, let me know. Esp. on
traveling to asia on a one way ticket.

Please carbon copy relevant replys to my email.


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

"Po Box 557" wrote in message ...
Here is a question i always liked someone to answer regarding fake or not.

Lets assume a big company would like a company in China to make this
product, an order of 1 million was requested, this company made the one
million requested and had it shipped out, in the same process as making the
1 million they also ran an extra million for themselves to sell on in there
own market.

Is this classed as fake?

Yes. That's actually the main source for a lot of pirated clothing in SE Asia.