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Louvre 2020 : a 2nd large campaign of works for the museum



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 9th, 2009, 03:18 PM posted to rec.travel.europe
didier Meurgues
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Posts: 335
Default Louvre 2020 : a 2nd large campaign of works for the museum

AT LAST :
The restoration of the exteriors of the Louvre which begun in 1985...
and saw sucessively the restoration of the courtyards and gardens and
the cleaning of the facades has finally come to an end this month of
august 2010..., with the last loan facing the Marsan wing, after
consequently 25 years ! OUF !

After the 1st campaign of large works since the 2nd Empire, initiated
by president Mitterrand in September 1981, 4 months after his
election, and realised from 1983 to 2004, a new campaign of large
works due to last 15 more years until 2020 has been launched, and re-
defined February 4th 2008, notably thanks to the 1 billion € to be
received from the United Arab Emirates on a period of 30 years in
compensation of the Louvre Abu Dhabi project.

The 1st campaign concerned notably considerable enlargments of the
museum with the archeological spaces of the medieval moats (1985), the
pyramid entrance and history of the Louvre rooms (1989), the french
paintings of the 2nd floor of the Cour carrée (1992), the Richelieu
wing (1993), the foreign sculptures rooms (1994), the coptic and late
egyptian antiquities (1997) the preclassical Greece (1997), the Porte
des Lions entrance and staircase (1998), the quai Branly museum's
antenna of the pavillon des Sessions (2000), the 18th-19th c. northern
schools and Restauration-Monarchie de Juillet rooms (2001) and the
Salle du Manège (2004). Meantime, most of the existing rooms were
refurbished, notably the egyptian antiquities departement (1997) and
lately the Apollo gallery (2004) and the salle des Etats for Mona Lisa
(2005).
http://www.louvre.fr/llv/musee/detai...tPosition=-600

The 2nd campaign of 2005-2020, since it finally includes the works
launched in 2005, like the refurbishment of the 18th c. objets d'arts
rooms and the creation of the Islamic arts departement, is "due" to
see the following inaugurations (including the external building of
the Louvre-Lens) according to : http://www.culture.gouv.fr/culture/a...louvre2020.htm
:

Early 2010 : 2 symetrical staircases built in the salle du manège
(done).

End 2010 : Greek & roman copies of greek antiquities gallery.
The gallery was closed for security reasons and emptied after a Vandal
broke a finger of one of the most important piece : the Apollo
saurochtone after Praxiteles !
Refurbishment around the Venus of Milo which has already moved to its
final place and protection of the pieces thanks to a patronage of
japanese TV NTV.

Mid-2012 (1) : EXTERNAL : Louvre antenna in Lens (North of France).
www.louvrelens.fr
28.000 m² in a park of 20 hectares, 100 % financed by the local
authorities and the European community.
Built by the japanese team of Kazuyo Seijima and Ryue Nishizawa, it
will present some collections of the Louvre from the 8 departments for
temporary periods as well as important exhibitions.
(1) They didn't find an adequate building company in June 2008 and had
to re-launch the "appel d'offre" procedure which was finally fructuous
in september 2009...

2011 (spring) : Department of Islamic arts.
http://www.louvre.fr/llv/musee/insti...bmLocale=fr_FR
http://www.louvre.fr/media/repositor...9831213046.pdf
http://www.louvre.fr/media/repositor...rc_document_50...
2000 objects (on 13.000) in 3000 m² on 2 levels in the Cour Visconti :
ground floor (8th-11th c.), underground (12th-18th c.).
Initiated in 2002 by president Chirac, begun in 2007 and built by the
italo-french team Mario Bellini and Rudy Ricciotti thanks notably to
the patronage of prince Alwaleed Bin Talal Bin Abdulaziz Al Saud of
Saudi Arabia, the emir of Koweit, the Sultan of Oman and Total company
for about 50% of the amount. The refurbishment by françois Pin of the
rooms of oriental mediterranean arts surrounding the Cour Visconti,
which was launched earlier, will finally be included in these works
for a better coherence.
PS : Despite the 2007 report (below) which says that the preclassical
Greece arts will consequently move elsewhere, they are in fact spared
by the plans of the works and will fortunately remain at their place
as a perfect introduction to greek and roman antiquities. It is not
already said what will replace the islamic arts in their former
location of the Denon wing. Probably oriental (or mediterranean ?)
antiquities.

2011 : 18th century objets d'arts.
2443 m² at the 1st floor of the North & part of West wings of the Cour
carrée.
Refurbished by the team Yann Keromnes, Aurelio Galfetti and Laurence
Carminati with creation of 2 new staircases both sides of the Marengo
pavilion at the centre of the wing, thanks to a 100 % patronage of
Cercle Cressent, American Friends of the Louvre and the loans of
pieces to Atlanta High museum.

2011 : EXTERNAL : Centre de réserves, de restaurations et de
recherches des musées.
A centre for reserves, restoration and research will be created in
Paris region for the collections of the Louvre, Orsay, Orangerie and
Ecole des Beaux Arts (ENSBA) museums, today situated in the floading
zone of the Seine, in order to avoid the damages of a possible
centenial floading (the last in 1910) to the collections and to make a
"chantier des collections", like the one recently made for the Quay
Branly collection.
The department of restoration of the Flore wing + pavilion as well as
the Central library of the national museums in the South wing of the
Cour carrée will move there and will allow the opening of new rooms
but the AGLAE laboratory will remain at the Louvre.

2012 : Roman and etruscan antiquities.
2000 m² on 2 levels : ground floor in and around the cour du Sphinx
and 1st floor in the 7 chimneys, Henry II & roman glass rooms.
Transfer of the etruscan antiquities to 1st floor, enlargment and
partial refurbishment of roman antiquities at ground floor.

2015 : End of the works for disabled public and fire security
initiated respectively in 1989 and 2005.

2015 : rooms of introduction to the museum visit and pedagogical
workshops.
2000 m² in the pavilion and upper level of the Flore wing will receive
the pedagocical workshops notably for school children with a
presentation of the Louvre and its collection.

2017 : Pyramid hall.
It will be refurbished with the integration of the ticket offices and
cloakrooms in the rooms or the gallery leading to the inverted pyramid
and the transfer of the rooms for groups in the Charles V hall near
the carpark.

2018 : English and early 19th c. french paintings.
1600 m² at the 2nd floor of the South wing of the Cour carrée.
The 800 m² of offices and Central library of the national museums will
be replaced by the english paintings and some 1774-1848 french
paintings with a refurbishment and liaison to the 800 m² of the same
wing already dedicated to these french paintings.

2018 : Tuilerie garden restoration.
Total restoration of the garden (terrasses, walls, fences, bassins,
statues, chairs, lighting) and (much needed...) increase of the
vegetalised surface.

2020 : History of the Louvre rooms.
2099 m² in the Sully pavilion of the Cour carrée, from the
archeological crypt and entresol to the 6 floor.
Transfer of the Louvre history rooms, today near the pyramid, into the
Sully pavilion with restoration of the 1st floor chapel, opening of
the 4 levels of the roof dome and link with the archeological spaces
below.
The actual history rooms will probably be used to increase the
temporary exhibitions spaces and the Beistegui collection of the 2nd
floor transfered elsewhere or, I "hope", scattered in the
corresponding rooms of the museum (Goya, David, etc...).

Artists decorations :
After the creation of the paintings and sculpture of Anselm Kiefer
installed in 2007 in the North staircase of the Colonnade with the
patronage of AGF insurance company, some pieces of art will by added
by Cy Twombly on the huge ceiling of the roman bronzes room of the
Cour carrée and some stained glasses by François Morellet. Patronage
is welcomed for such large pieces :+)

Former works reports :

2006 : http://www.louvre.fr/media/repositor...s/pdf/src_docu...
2007 : http://www.louvre.fr/media/repositor...9831216908.pdf
2008 : in September 2009

didier Meurgues

PS : Could somebody tell me why I can't find anymore my always signed
messages when I directly search with my name "meurgues"... ?
  #2  
Old August 9th, 2009, 07:07 PM posted to rec.travel.europe
Ian F.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 491
Default Louvre 2020 : a 2nd large campaign of works for the museum

"Magda" wrote in message
...

... The restoration of the exteriors of the Louvre which begun in 1985...
... and saw sucessively the restoration of the courtyards and gardens and
... the cleaning of the facades has finally come to an end this month of
... august 2010...,

I beg your pardon?


They should have left it in French - it would have sounded better! ;-)

Ian

  #3  
Old August 9th, 2009, 07:08 PM posted to rec.travel.europe
Runge17
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 261
Default Louvre 2020 : a 2nd large campaign of works for the museum

Eh oui magda n'a rien à dire, mais elle traque les coquilles !
en espérant que martin vienne avec une bonne blague à l'appui.

"Magda" a écrit dans le message de
...
On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 07:18:45 -0700 (PDT), in rec.travel.europe, didier
Meurgues
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:

... AT LAST :
... The restoration of the exteriors of the Louvre which begun in 1985...
... and saw sucessively the restoration of the courtyards and gardens and
... the cleaning of the facades has finally come to an end this month of
... august 2010...,

I beg your pardon?


=====
It sounds much better in French, but then, everything does.


  #4  
Old August 9th, 2009, 08:34 PM posted to rec.travel.europe
Runge17
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 261
Default Louvre 2020 : a 2nd large campaign of works for the museum

Noooo really ?

"Magda" a écrit dans le message de
...
On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 19:07:36 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, "Ian F."
arranged some electrons, so they looked like
this:

... "Magda" wrote in message
... ...
...
... ... The restoration of the exteriors of the Louvre which begun in
1985...
... ... and saw sucessively the restoration of the courtyards and
gardens and
... ... the cleaning of the facades has finally come to an end this
month of
... ... august 2010...,
...
... I beg your pardon?
...
... They should have left it in French - it would have sounded better! ;-)

France is still in 2009...


=====
It sounds much better in French, but then, everything does.


  #5  
Old August 9th, 2009, 11:37 PM posted to rec.travel.europe
JohnT[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 224
Default Louvre 2020 : a 2nd large campaign of works for the museum

"Martin" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 21:02:31 +0200, Magda wrote:

On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 19:07:36 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, "Ian F."
arranged some electrons, so they looked like
this:

... "Magda" wrote in message
... ...
...
... ... The restoration of the exteriors of the Louvre which begun in
1985...
... ... and saw sucessively the restoration of the courtyards and
gardens and
... ... the cleaning of the facades has finally come to an end this
month of
... ... august 2010...,
...
... I beg your pardon?
...
... They should have left it in French - it would have sounded better!
;-)

France is still in 2009...


Didier is a time traveller in Le Plus Tardis.




.......piloted by Mixi?
--
JohnT

  #6  
Old August 10th, 2009, 04:56 AM posted to rec.travel.europe
poldy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 788
Default Louvre 2020 : a 2nd large campaign of works for the museum

In article
,
didier Meurgues wrote:

After the 1st campaign of large works since the 2nd Empire, initiated
by president Mitterrand in September 1981, 4 months after his
election, and realised from 1983 to 2004, a new campaign of large
works due to last 15 more years until 2020 has been launched, and re-
defined February 4th 2008, notably thanks to the 1 billion ¤ to be
received from the United Arab Emirates on a period of 30 years in
compensation of the Louvre Abu Dhabi project.



Louvre doesn't generate enough income on its own that it has to
fundraise from abroad to finance expansion?

What exactly is the scope of the Louvre? Is it all French patrimony or
are they actively acquiring more works all the time?

Are they for instance trying to compete with Italy for the Roman and
Etruscan antiquities or is it stuff that Napoleon and other French
rulers have absconded over the centuries?

Also sounds like there will be some overlap with museums like Quai
Branly and Institut du Monde Arabe.
  #7  
Old August 11th, 2009, 11:14 PM posted to rec.travel.europe
didier Meurgues
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 335
Default Louvre 2020 : a 2nd large campaign of works for the museum

On 10 août, 14:02, Magda wrote:
On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 20:56:11 -0700, in rec.travel.europe, poldy arranged
some electrons, so they looked like this:

*...
*... Louvre doesn't generate enough income on its own that it has to
*... fundraise from abroad to finance expansion?

No, the money from entrance fees and donations barely cover its functioning costs.

*... What exactly is the scope of the Louvre?

I don't know - what's the scope of culture? pp

*Is it all French patrimony or
*... are they actively acquiring more works all the time?

Several hundreds of works of art have been waiting for years to be exposed. The caves of
the Louvre are full.

*... Are they for instance trying to compete with Italy for the Roman and
*... Etruscan antiquities or is it stuff that Napoleon and other French
*... rulers have absconded over the centuries?

I don't see the correlation there.

*... Also sounds like there will be some overlap with museums like Quai
*... Branly and Institut du Monde Arabe.

Ohhh... How sad...!

=====
It sounds much better in French, but then, everything does.


I'm sorry if I speak and write english like a spanish cow (french
expression) :+)

Yes of course I meant (we're in) August 2009 :+)
So it took them only 24 years to complete the renovation of the
exteriors... :+)

The collection of the Institut du Monde Arabe is mostly composed of
loans from arabic states.
The one of quai Branly concerns mostly ethnology (costumes, jewells,
daily life ojects).

Concerning academic more academic art in the Louvre see :

http://www.culture.gouv.fr/public/mi...D=4%2 4%2534P

then search :
lieu de conservation : LOUVRE
statut juridique (with the last 2 "menus" allowing a choice) :
CONQUETE MILITAIRE

http://www.culture.gouv.fr/documenta...de/fr/pres.htm

It gives : 374 pieces
in the Louvre : 122 paintings on 5390 now on the Joconde database (the
collection holds about 8000) like the big Cimabue, Fra Angelico and
Giotto as well as about 45 others presented in the rooms as far as I
can remember by memory (mostly italians and several flemish).
124 drawings on 126.658 now on the Joconde
database (the collection holds about 140 000).

in province : 51 paintings
77 drawings

So about 173 paintings and 201drawings.

The database is still in progress and less complete for the museum of
province, notably for the 15 created by the decree of 1802 which
received then some pieces from the Louvre (Bordeaux, Dijon, Lille,
Lyon, Marseille, Nancy, Nantes, Rennes, Rouen, Strasbourg, Toulouse,
Caen, as well as now abroad Brussels (Musée royal d'art ancien),
Mayence (now Kunst Palast ?) and Geneva (Musée d'art et d'histoire),
then Tours, Orléans, Arras, Reims, etc...

In the following years this decree inspired the creation of other
museums in the empire like in Milan (Pinacoteca Brera), Bologna (but
by the city) and Venice (Accademia) for the italian school, Ghent in
addition to Brussels for the flemish school, Amsterdam (Rijksmuseum)
for the dutch school (see Mayence in 1802 for the german school), and
this despite the seize of part of some royal collections like in
Holland (The Hague) and Prussia (57 pieces in Dresden, more in Kassel
wich were restituted), while in Italy the Uffizi were spared and the
Vatican collections spoliations were the object of treaties. Some
exchanges of pieces took as well place with the Louvre at that time :
for example in 1812 with the Brera (4 exchanges according to Joconde),
Brussels and Mayence.
Despite the initial seizes, this museum policy inspired nevertheless
the creation of the Vatican museum (with the 1815 restitutions) and
the Prado (which could not be created in 1809 as originally planned by
Joseph Bonaparte, since in fact virtually no spanish pieces reached
the french museums despite his later attempts) or refurbishments like
the Accademia museum in Venice in 1817-19.

In 1815 during the restitutions some agreements were reached with king
Louis XVIII and the Vatican, etc... That's why some pieces remained in
the Louvre as others of the former french royal collection deposed in
1809 were kept in Brussels for example (others are too in Russia).

Concerning the roman antiquities :
A part of those of cardinal Albani which were not brought back to Rome
were sold to Louis XVIII (39 pieces) and another part to the king of
Bavaria (now in Munich Glyptoteque). Louis XVIII reached as well a
similar agreement with prince Borghese, which had been forced to sell
for 8 million francs a part of its collection to his brother-in-law
Napoleon, and who probably prefered not to reimburse those 8 million
francs. So 195 pieces were consequently not brought back, including
the gladiator and the vase now in the Louvre. This kind of "buy" is
rather similar to the one of the french royal library by the duke of
Bedford in 1422... :+)

I had found somewhere the plans of the new islamic art departement
rooms but can't find it anymore...

didier Meurgues



  #8  
Old August 12th, 2009, 01:35 PM posted to rec.travel.europe
didier Meurgues
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 335
Default Louvre 2020 : a 2nd large campaign of works for the museum

On 12 août, 00:14, didier Meurgues wrote:
On 10 août, 14:02, Magda wrote:





On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 20:56:11 -0700, in rec.travel.europe, poldy arranged
some electrons, so they looked like this:


*...
*... Louvre doesn't generate enough income on its own that it has to
*... fundraise from abroad to finance expansion?


No, the money from entrance fees and donations barely cover its functioning costs.


*... What exactly is the scope of the Louvre?


I don't know - what's the scope of culture? pp


*Is it all French patrimony or
*... are they actively acquiring more works all the time?


Several hundreds of works of art have been waiting for years to be exposed. The caves of
the Louvre are full.


*... Are they for instance trying to compete with Italy for the Roman and
*... Etruscan antiquities or is it stuff that Napoleon and other French
*... rulers have absconded over the centuries?


I don't see the correlation there.


*... Also sounds like there will be some overlap with museums like Quai
*... Branly and Institut du Monde Arabe.


Ohhh... How sad...!


=====
It sounds much better in French, but then, everything does.


I'm sorry if I speak and write english like a spanish cow (french
expression) :+)

Yes of course I meant (we're in) August 2009 :+)
So it took them only 24 years to complete the renovation of the
exteriors... :+)

The collection of the Institut du Monde Arabe is mostly composed of
loans from arabic states.
The one of quai Branly concerns mostly ethnology (costumes, jewells,
daily life ojects).

Concerning academic more academic art in the Louvre see :

http://www.culture.gouv.fr/public/mi...TION=RETOUR&US....

then search :
lieu de conservation : LOUVRE
statut juridique (with the last 2 "menus" allowing a choice) :
CONQUETE MILITAIRE

http://www.culture.gouv.fr/documenta...de/fr/pres.htm

It gives : 374 pieces
in the Louvre : 122 paintings on 5390 now on the Joconde database (the
collection holds about 8000) like the big Cimabue, Fra Angelico and
Giotto as well as about 45 others presented in the rooms as far as I
can remember by memory (mostly italians and several flemish).
* * * * * * * * * * *124 drawings on 126.658 now on the Joconde
database (the collection holds about 140 000).

in province : 51 paintings
* * * * * * * * * 77 drawings

So about 173 paintings and 201drawings.

The database is still in progress and less complete for the museum of
province, notably for the 15 created by the decree of 1802 which
received then some pieces from the Louvre (Bordeaux, Dijon, Lille,
Lyon, Marseille, Nancy, Nantes, Rennes, Rouen, Strasbourg, Toulouse,
Caen, as well as now abroad Brussels (Musée royal d'art ancien),
Mayence (now Kunst Palast ?) and Geneva (Musée d'art et d'histoire),
then Tours, Orléans, Arras, Reims, etc...

In the following years this decree inspired the creation of other
museums in the empire like in Milan (Pinacoteca Brera), Bologna (but
by the city) and Venice (Accademia) for the italian school, Ghent in
addition to Brussels for the flemish school, Amsterdam (Rijksmuseum)
for the dutch school (see Mayence in 1802 for the german school), and
this despite the seize of part of some royal collections like in
Holland (The Hague) and Prussia (57 pieces in Dresden, more in Kassel
wich were restituted), while in Italy the Uffizi were spared and the
Vatican collections spoliations were the object of treaties. Some
exchanges of pieces took as well place with the Louvre at that time :
for example in 1812 with the Brera (4 exchanges according to Joconde),
Brussels and Mayence.
Despite the initial seizes, this museum policy inspired nevertheless
the creation of the Vatican museum (with the 1815 restitutions) and
the Prado (which could not be created in 1809 as originally planned by
Joseph Bonaparte, since in fact virtually no spanish pieces reached
the french museums despite his later attempts) or refurbishments like
the Accademia museum in Venice in 1817-19.

In 1815 during the restitutions some agreements were reached with king
Louis XVIII and the Vatican, etc... That's why some pieces remained in
the Louvre as others of the former french royal collection deposed in
1809 were kept in Brussels for example (others are too in Russia).

Concerning the roman antiquities :
A part of those of cardinal Albani which were not brought back to Rome
were sold to Louis XVIII (39 pieces) and another part to the king of
Bavaria (now in Munich Glyptoteque). Louis XVIII reached as well a
similar agreement with prince Borghese, which had been forced to sell
for 8 million francs a part of its collection to his brother-in-law
Napoleon, and who probably prefered not to reimburse those 8 million
francs. So 195 pieces were consequently not brought back, including
the gladiator and the vase now in the Louvre. This kind of "buy" is
rather similar to the one of the french royal library by the duke of
Bedford in 1422... :+)

I had found somewhere the plans of the new islamic art departement
rooms but can't find it anymore...

didier Meurgues- Masquer le texte des messages précédents -

- Afficher le texte des messages précédents -


I've finally found again the plans of the new islamic departement :

http://www.louvre.fr/media/repositor...9830603571.pdf
page 13 (the images get white and more readable if you copy them
elsewhere)

I forgot the museum of Antwerp (but created around 1807 by the city,
like in Bologna).

It must be nevertheless reminded that most of these pieces of art were
taken as war reparations (by the treaties of Tolentino until 1801 for
Italy for example). War reparations were common at that time for
example the restitutions of 1815 were simply part of the 700 millions
francs of war reparation that France had to pay to Italy, Russia
etc... (In 1871 France paid 5 billions gold-marks to Prussia, etc...).
That's why the pieces taken with Tolentino, etc... were not claimed by
the allies in 1814 when Napoleon abdicated for the 1st time, but only
in 1815 when he did it the 2nd time.

Napoleon himself asked war reparations to be paid in pieces of art
instead of gold since he wanted (even it it's hard to believe... :+))
to create regional PUBLIC museums (for artists education as well) in
the entire empire but not only in actual France (more than 25 were
created), and in "compensation" to receive pieces for the "musee
central" of the Louvre, like the 2 paintings of Venice's Palazzo
ducale replaced by copies or the Nozze di Cana by Veronese (exchanged
with a large Le Brun in 1815, probably now in the reserves of the
Accademia), and since at that time the royal collections were private
and not accessible to public except very few like Uffizi, Dresden,
Kassel or Vienna. As well, for the Borghese collections, "bought" 8
millions francs, he used partly war reparations from other sovereigns
(Savoie ?) since it would have been absurd to transer money from
France twice.

But, for example he personaly forbid Denon, the director of the
Louvre, to take pieces in the already public museums, like the Uffizi
and the museum of Dresden for example, even during the more radical
seizes in Prussia after 1806. But he nevertheless choosed to take
emblematic pieces, what was truly inacceptable..., like the Apollo
Belvedere and Laocoon (Tolentino treaty) or the horses of san Marco in
Venice in compensation, did he thought..., of the adjonction of a
museum to the Accademia (how many pieces entered nevertheless there or
in Brera between 1807 and 1815 ?).
These important pieces were restitued in 1815, except in case of
agreements reached with Louis XVIII : notably the Albani, Borghese
collections and the french royal collections left in museums abroad.
That's why you find in fact few pieces remaining in the french
collections from each of the foreign "national" collections (add their
name like "Modene" in the database at "ancienne appartenance" with the
lower "choice of menu") : Modene (11), Baviere (3), Stathouder La Haye
(9), Savoie (2), Farnese (2), Naples (1), Parme (1), Dresde, Berlin or
Cassel (1 forgotten because of uncertain provenance), Florence (0 but
1 of uncertain provenance), Rome Pape (0), Vienne (0), Madrid (0) +
Bruxelles (0) : so about 30. They were mostly left in the museums of
province. Most of the other pictures, notably among the 101 italian
pictures (on a total of 173 from "militray conquest") taken mainly
before 1801 and in 1812-14, came from churches but none for the 3 from
Rome (ducal collections kept in Rome). For the 113 drawings except 2
Bandinelli, 2 Carracci and a Vasari, most of those wich were taken/
left are copies or by followers or secondary artists.

Replace 1422 by 1424 in my former post.

didier Meurgues

  #9  
Old August 12th, 2009, 02:25 PM posted to rec.travel.europe
didier Meurgues
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 335
Default Louvre 2020 : a 2nd large campaign of works for the museum

On 12 août, 14:35, didier Meurgues wrote:
On 12 août, 00:14, didier Meurgues wrote:





On 10 août, 14:02, Magda wrote:


On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 20:56:11 -0700, in rec.travel.europe, poldy arranged
some electrons, so they looked like this:


*...
*... Louvre doesn't generate enough income on its own that it has to
*... fundraise from abroad to finance expansion?


No, the money from entrance fees and donations barely cover its functioning costs.


*... What exactly is the scope of the Louvre?


I don't know - what's the scope of culture? pp


*Is it all French patrimony or
*... are they actively acquiring more works all the time?


Several hundreds of works of art have been waiting for years to be exposed. The caves of
the Louvre are full.


*... Are they for instance trying to compete with Italy for the Roman and
*... Etruscan antiquities or is it stuff that Napoleon and other French
*... rulers have absconded over the centuries?


I don't see the correlation there.


*... Also sounds like there will be some overlap with museums like Quai
*... Branly and Institut du Monde Arabe.


Ohhh... How sad...!


=====
It sounds much better in French, but then, everything does.


I'm sorry if I speak and write english like a spanish cow (french
expression) :+)


Yes of course I meant (we're in) August 2009 :+)
So it took them only 24 years to complete the renovation of the
exteriors... :+)


The collection of the Institut du Monde Arabe is mostly composed of
loans from arabic states.
The one of quai Branly concerns mostly ethnology (costumes, jewells,
daily life ojects).


Concerning academic more academic art in the Louvre see :


http://www.culture.gouv.fr/public/mi...TION=RETOUR&US....


then search :
lieu de conservation : LOUVRE
statut juridique (with the last 2 "menus" allowing a choice) :
CONQUETE MILITAIRE


http://www.culture.gouv.fr/documenta...de/fr/pres.htm


It gives : 374 pieces
in the Louvre : 122 paintings on 5390 now on the Joconde database (the
collection holds about 8000) like the big Cimabue, Fra Angelico and
Giotto as well as about 45 others presented in the rooms as far as I
can remember by memory (mostly italians and several flemish).
* * * * * * * * * * *124 drawings on 126.658 now on the Joconde
database (the collection holds about 140 000).


in province : 51 paintings
* * * * * * * * * 77 drawings


So about 173 paintings and 201drawings.


The database is still in progress and less complete for the museum of
province, notably for the 15 created by the decree of 1802 which
received then some pieces from the Louvre (Bordeaux, Dijon, Lille,
Lyon, Marseille, Nancy, Nantes, Rennes, Rouen, Strasbourg, Toulouse,
Caen, as well as now abroad Brussels (Musée royal d'art ancien),
Mayence (now Kunst Palast ?) and Geneva (Musée d'art et d'histoire),
then Tours, Orléans, Arras, Reims, etc...


In the following years this decree inspired the creation of other
museums in the empire like in Milan (Pinacoteca Brera), Bologna (but
by the city) and Venice (Accademia) for the italian school, Ghent in
addition to Brussels for the flemish school, Amsterdam (Rijksmuseum)
for the dutch school (see Mayence in 1802 for the german school), and
this despite the seize of part of some royal collections like in
Holland (The Hague) and Prussia (57 pieces in Dresden, more in Kassel
wich were restituted), while in Italy the Uffizi were spared and the
Vatican collections spoliations were the object of treaties. Some
exchanges of pieces took as well place with the Louvre at that time :
for example in 1812 with the Brera (4 exchanges according to Joconde),
Brussels and Mayence.
Despite the initial seizes, this museum policy inspired nevertheless
the creation of the Vatican museum (with the 1815 restitutions) and
the Prado (which could not be created in 1809 as originally planned by
Joseph Bonaparte, since in fact virtually no spanish pieces reached
the french museums despite his later attempts) or refurbishments like
the Accademia museum in Venice in 1817-19.


In 1815 during the restitutions some agreements were reached with king
Louis XVIII and the Vatican, etc... That's why some pieces remained in
the Louvre as others of the former french royal collection deposed in
1809 were kept in Brussels for example (others are too in Russia).


Concerning the roman antiquities :
A part of those of cardinal Albani which were not brought back to Rome
were sold to Louis XVIII (39 pieces) and another part to the king of
Bavaria (now in Munich Glyptoteque). Louis XVIII reached as well a
similar agreement with prince Borghese, which had been forced to sell
for 8 million francs a part of its collection to his brother-in-law
Napoleon, and who probably prefered not to reimburse those 8 million
francs. So 195 pieces were consequently not brought back, including
the gladiator and the vase now in the Louvre. This kind of "buy" is
rather similar to the one of the french royal library by the duke of
Bedford in 1422... :+)


I had found somewhere the plans of the new islamic art departement
rooms but can't find it anymore...


didier Meurgues- Masquer le texte des messages précédents -


- Afficher le texte des messages précédents -


I've finally found again the plans of the new islamic departement *:

http://www.louvre.fr/media/repositor...s/pdf/src_docu...
page 13 (the images get white and more readable if you copy them
elsewhere)

I forgot the museum of Antwerp (but created around 1807 by the city,
like in Bologna).

It must be nevertheless reminded that most of these pieces of art were
taken as war reparations (by the treaties of Tolentino until 1801 for
Italy for example). War reparations were common at that time for
example the restitutions of 1815 were simply part of the 700 millions
francs of war reparation that France had to pay to Italy, Russia
etc... (In 1871 France paid 5 billions gold-marks to Prussia, etc...).
That's why the pieces taken with Tolentino, etc... were not claimed by
the allies in 1814 when Napoleon abdicated for the 1st time, but only
in 1815 when he did it the 2nd time.

Napoleon himself asked war reparations to be paid in pieces of art
instead of gold since he wanted (even it it's hard to believe... :+))
to create regional PUBLIC museums (for artists education as well) in
the entire empire but not only in actual France (more than 25 were
created), and in "compensation" to receive pieces for the "musee
central" of the Louvre, like the 2 paintings of Venice's Palazzo
ducale replaced by copies or the Nozze di Cana by Veronese (exchanged
with a large Le Brun in 1815, probably now in the reserves of the
Accademia), and since at that time the royal collections were private
and not accessible to public except very few like Uffizi, Dresden,
Kassel or Vienna. As well, for the Borghese collections, "bought" 8
millions francs, he used partly war reparations from other sovereigns
(Savoie ?) since it would have been absurd to transer money from
France twice.

But, for example he personaly forbid Denon, the director of the
Louvre, to take pieces in the already public museums, like the Uffizi
and the museum of Dresden for example, even during the more radical
seizes in Prussia after 1806. But he nevertheless choosed to take
emblematic pieces, what was truly inacceptable..., like the Apollo
Belvedere and Laocoon (Tolentino treaty) or the horses of san Marco in
Venice in compensation, did he thought..., of the adjonction of a
museum to the Accademia (how many pieces entered nevertheless there or
in Brera between 1807 and 1815 ?).
These important pieces were restitued in 1815, except in case of
agreements reached with Louis XVIII : notably the Albani, Borghese
collections and the french royal collections left in museums abroad.
That's why you find in fact few pieces remaining in the french
collections from each of the foreign "national" collections (add their
name like "Modene" in the database at "ancienne appartenance" with the
lower "choice of menu") : Modene (11), Baviere (3), Stathouder La Haye
(9), Savoie (2), Farnese (2), Naples (1), Parme (1), Dresde, Berlin or
Cassel (1 forgotten because of uncertain provenance), Florence (0 but
1 of uncertain provenance), Rome Pape (0), Vienne (0), Madrid (0) +
Bruxelles (0) : so about 30. They were mostly left in the museums of
province. Most of the other pictures, notably among the 101 italian
pictures (on a total of 173 from "militray conquest") taken mainly
before 1801 and in 1812-14, came from churches but none for the 3 from
Rome (ducal collections kept in Rome). For the 113 drawings except 2
Bandinelli, 2 Carracci and a Vasari, most of those wich were taken/
left are copies or by followers or secondary artists.

Replace 1422 by 1424 in my former post.

didier Meurgues- Masquer le texte des messages précédents -

- Afficher le texte des messages précédents -


I meant of course : For the 201 drawings except 2
Bandinelli, 2 Carracci and a Vasari,


Concerning the private status of princial or royal collections before
1800, many pieces of the Barberini collection were for example sold to
the duke of Bavaria in the 1780ies like the faune Barberini now in
Munich Glyptotheque. The Albani sells of 1815 were not much different.
  #10  
Old August 13th, 2009, 12:25 AM posted to rec.travel.europe
didier Meurgues
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 335
Default Louvre 2020 : a 2nd large campaign of works for the museum

On 12 août, 00:14, didier Meurgues wrote:
On 10 août, 14:02, Magda wrote:





On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 20:56:11 -0700, in rec.travel.europe, poldy arranged
some electrons, so they looked like this:


*...
*... Louvre doesn't generate enough income on its own that it has to
*... fundraise from abroad to finance expansion?


No, the money from entrance fees and donations barely cover its functioning costs.


*... What exactly is the scope of the Louvre?


I don't know - what's the scope of culture? pp


*Is it all French patrimony or
*... are they actively acquiring more works all the time?


Several hundreds of works of art have been waiting for years to be exposed. The caves of
the Louvre are full.


*... Are they for instance trying to compete with Italy for the Roman and
*... Etruscan antiquities or is it stuff that Napoleon and other French
*... rulers have absconded over the centuries?


I don't see the correlation there.


*... Also sounds like there will be some overlap with museums like Quai
*... Branly and Institut du Monde Arabe.


Ohhh... How sad...!


=====
It sounds much better in French, but then, everything does.


I'm sorry if I speak and write english like a spanish cow (french
expression) :+)

Yes of course I meant (we're in) August 2009 :+)
So it took them only 24 years to complete the renovation of the
exteriors... :+)

The collection of the Institut du Monde Arabe is mostly composed of
loans from arabic states.
The one of quai Branly concerns mostly ethnology (costumes, jewells,
daily life ojects).

Concerning academic more academic art in the Louvre see :

http://www.culture.gouv.fr/public/mi...TION=RETOUR&US....

then search :
lieu de conservation : LOUVRE
statut juridique (with the last 2 "menus" allowing a choice) :
CONQUETE MILITAIRE

http://www.culture.gouv.fr/documenta...de/fr/pres.htm

It gives : 374 pieces
in the Louvre : 122 paintings on 5390 now on the Joconde database (the
collection holds about 8000) like the big Cimabue, Fra Angelico and
Giotto as well as about 45 others presented in the rooms as far as I
can remember by memory (mostly italians and several flemish).
* * * * * * * * * * *124 drawings on 126.658 now on the Joconde
database (the collection holds about 140 000).

in province : 51 paintings
* * * * * * * * * 77 drawings

So about 173 paintings and 201drawings.

The database is still in progress and less complete for the museum of
province, notably for the 15 created by the decree of 1802 which
received then some pieces from the Louvre (Bordeaux, Dijon, Lille,
Lyon, Marseille, Nancy, Nantes, Rennes, Rouen, Strasbourg, Toulouse,
Caen, as well as now abroad Brussels (Musée royal d'art ancien),
Mayence (now Kunst Palast ?) and Geneva (Musée d'art et d'histoire),
then Tours, Orléans, Arras, Reims, etc...

In the following years this decree inspired the creation of other
museums in the empire like in Milan (Pinacoteca Brera), Bologna (but
by the city) and Venice (Accademia) for the italian school, Ghent in
addition to Brussels for the flemish school, Amsterdam (Rijksmuseum)
for the dutch school (see Mayence in 1802 for the german school), and
this despite the seize of part of some royal collections like in
Holland (The Hague) and Prussia (57 pieces in Dresden, more in Kassel
wich were restituted), while in Italy the Uffizi were spared and the
Vatican collections spoliations were the object of treaties. Some
exchanges of pieces took as well place with the Louvre at that time :
for example in 1812 with the Brera (4 exchanges according to Joconde),
Brussels and Mayence.
Despite the initial seizes, this museum policy inspired nevertheless
the creation of the Vatican museum (with the 1815 restitutions) and
the Prado (which could not be created in 1809 as originally planned by
Joseph Bonaparte, since in fact virtually no spanish pieces reached
the french museums despite his later attempts) or refurbishments like
the Accademia museum in Venice in 1817-19.

In 1815 during the restitutions some agreements were reached with king
Louis XVIII and the Vatican, etc... That's why some pieces remained in
the Louvre as others of the former french royal collection deposed in
1809 were kept in Brussels for example (others are too in Russia).

Concerning the roman antiquities :
A part of those of cardinal Albani which were not brought back to Rome
were sold to Louis XVIII (39 pieces) and another part to the king of
Bavaria (now in Munich Glyptoteque). Louis XVIII reached as well a
similar agreement with prince Borghese, which had been forced to sell
for 8 million francs a part of its collection to his brother-in-law
Napoleon, and who probably prefered not to reimburse those 8 million
francs. So 195 pieces were consequently not brought back, including
the gladiator and the vase now in the Louvre. This kind of "buy" is
rather similar to the one of the french royal library by the duke of
Bedford in 1422... :+)

I had found somewhere the plans of the new islamic art departement
rooms but can't find it anymore...

didier Meurgues- Masquer le texte des messages précédents -

- Afficher le texte des messages précédents -


I've finally found again the plans of the new islamic departement :

http://www.louvre.fr/media/repositor...s/pdf/src_docu...
page 13 (the images get white and more readable if you copy them
elsewhere)


I forgot the museum of Antwerp (but created around 1807 by the city,
like in Bologna).


It must be nevertheless reminded that most of these pieces of art
were
taken as war reparations (by the treaties of Tolentino until 1801 for
Italy for example). War reparations were common at that time for
example the restitutions of 1815 were simply part of the 700 millions
francs of war reparation that France had to pay to Italy, Russia
etc... (In 1871 France paid 5 billions gold-marks to Prussia,
etc...).
That's why the pieces taken with Tolentino, etc... were not claimed
by
the allies in 1814 when Napoleon abdicated for the 1st time, but only
in 1815 when he did it the 2nd time.


Napoleon himself asked war reparations to be paid in pieces of art
instead of gold since he wanted (even if it's hard to believe... :+))
to create regional PUBLIC museums (for artists education as well) in
the entire empire but not only in actual France (more than 25 were
created), and in "compensation" to receive pieces for the "musee
central" of the Louvre, like the 2 paintings of Venice's Palazzo
ducale replaced by copies or the Nozze di Cana by Veronese (exchanged
with a large Le Brun in 1815, probably now in the reserves of the
Accademia), and since at that time the royal collections were private
and not accessible to public except very few like Uffizi, Dresden,
Kassel or Vienna. As well, for the Borghese collections, "bought" 8
millions francs, he used partly war reparations from other sovereigns
(Savoie ?) since it would have been absurd to transer money from
France twice.


But, for example he personaly forbid Denon, the director of the
Louvre, to take pieces in the already public museums, like the Uffizi
and the museum of Dresden for example, even during the more radical
seizes in Prussia after 1806. But he nevertheless choosed to take
emblematic pieces, what was truly inacceptable..., like the Apollo
Belvedere and Laocoon (Tolentino treaty) or the horses of san Marco
in
Venice in compensation, did he thought..., of the adjonction of a
museum to the Accademia (how many pieces entered nevertheless there
or
in Brera between 1807 and 1815 ?).
These important pieces were restitued in 1815, except in case of
agreements reached with Louis XVIII : notably the Albani, Borghese
collections and the french royal collections left in museums abroad.
That's why you find in fact few pieces remaining in the french
collections from each of the foreign "national" collections (add
their
name like "Modene" in the database at "ancienne appartenance" with
the
lower "choice of menu") : Modene (11), Stathouder La Haye
(9), Baviere (3), Savoie (2), Farnese (2), Naples (1), Parme (1),
Dresde, Berlin or
Cassel (1 forgotten because of uncertain provenance), Florence (0 but
1 of uncertain provenance), Rome Pape (0), Vienne (0), Madrid (0) +
Bruxelles (0) : so about 30. They were mostly left in the museums of
province. Most of the other pictures, notably among the 101 italian
pictures (on a total of 173 from "militray conquest") taken mainly
before 1801 and in 1812-14, came from churches but none for the 3
from
Rome (ducal collections kept in Rome). For the 201 drawings except 2
Bandinelli, 2 Carracci and a Vasari, most of those wich were taken/
left are copies or by followers or secondary artists.

Concerning the private status of princial or royal collections before
1800, many pieces of the Barberini collection were for example sold
to
the duke of Bavaria in the 1780ies like the faune Barberini now in
Munich Glyptotheque. The Albani sales of 1815 were not much
different.
Later, for example, king Guillaume II of Orange sold his collection in
1850 and king Louis Philippe of France in 1853 (400 spanish paintings
provisorily deposed in the Louvre before).

For Poldy :
The scope of the Louvre collections is the one of its 8 departements
mostly mediterranean and near east antiquities and paintings,
sculpture and objets d'art until 1848 + an antenna of quai Branly.
Look in www.louvre.fr
This webite is VERY incomplete for new acquisitions at the difference
of those of Orsay or Centre Pompidou : the Atlas database gives only 8
for all departements... for the last 2 years..., when the Louvre buys
roughly 10-20 paintings a year IMO (the inventory numbers for both
paintings and sculptures only are on the form "RF year number" wich
reached at least 51 in 2008 with the scandinave painting of Bendz in
the Atlas database). Lately the museum reinforced mainly the 19th c.
northern school collection for Scandinavia and Germany and now the
english school for the opening of the new rooms in 2018 (Hogarth, John
Martin, Benjamin West, William Key). The Louvre doesn't look specially
anymore for great names to accumulate depsite some few lacks, since
they can't be filled anymore (Ducio, Giorgione, Bellotto, Masaccio,
Verrocchio despite 1 sculpture, Lochner, Grunewald, Altdorfer or only
1 for Bosch, Durer, Brueghel the ancient, Moroni, Piazzeta, Marieschi,
Martini, Daddi, the Veneziano, or rare ones like Pisanello, della
Francesca, Ucello, etc..., 2 for Parmigianino, etc...) but generally
to add new artists to complete the schools.

The Louvre is looking for patronage funding because the state is not
as generous as in the 1980ies for the works still to be done for the
last campaign of modernisation and because the Louvre is now an
independent Etablissement Public like Versailles and soon
Fontainebleau. This change leads to a mercantilism which is fiercly
criticised by some specialists like :
http://www.latribunedelart.com

I don't now antiquities which were taken from foreign collections
since prince Borghese reached freely an agrement with Louis XVIII.

Replace 1422 by 1424 in my former post.

didier Meurgues


 




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