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Substandard Italian workmanship renders first 787s unsafe



 
 
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  #21  
Old June 26th, 2010, 02:49 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.travel.air
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 5,830
Default Substandard Italian workmanship renders first 787s unsafe

Bob Myers writes:

And is your experience with supplier selection and qualification
as extensive as, say, your experience in piloting?


I was not responsible for selection and qualification, but I had to deal with
the results thereof for years.
  #22  
Old June 26th, 2010, 03:52 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.travel.air
JohnT[_7_]
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Default Substandard Italian workmanship renders first 787s unsafe


"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Bob Myers writes:

And is your experience with supplier selection and qualification
as extensive as, say, your experience in piloting?


I was not responsible for selection and qualification, but I had to deal
with
the results thereof for years.


Woosh.
--
JohnT

  #23  
Old June 26th, 2010, 04:16 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.travel.air
[email protected]
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Posts: 38
Default Substandard Italian workmanship renders first 787s unsafe

In rec.aviation.piloting Mxsmanic wrote:
JohnT writes:

Lots of people would consider that Italian technology is at least as good as
anything emanating from Chicago.


Then Boeing must have picked the wrong Italian partner. And this appears to be
an issue with workmanship, not technology or design. The tails were simply not
put together correctly, implying unqualified, careless, or lazy workers.


And just how many manufacturing programs have you been involved with that
you are able to make such a determination?

Let me guess, you play Microsoft Manufacturing Simulator.

In my experience with real world production, if some of the subassemblies
are "wrong" it is usually a QA and inspection problem with the builder and
if they are almost or all "wrong" it is usually a problem with the
documentation package sent to the builder.

You can't say what the defect percentage is nor do you have any insight
what so ever in the manufacturing process.

Based on a total lack of information, your conclusion is Italian workers
are unqualified, careless, or lazy.

Yeah, right.


--
Jim Pennino

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  #24  
Old June 26th, 2010, 04:22 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.travel.air
[email protected]
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Default Substandard Italian workmanship renders first 787s unsafe

In rec.aviation.piloting Mxsmanic wrote:
Tom P writes:

Factory workers make mistakes all the time. It's normal.


The number and magnitude of mistakes they make depend a great deal on
corporate and social culture.

I recall Akio Morita describing such a problem. Sony was building Trinitrons
in both Japan and the USA. In both countries, the tubes had to meet the same
tolerances. Nevertheless, the company found that the Japanese tubes were
always far closer to perfection than the USA tubes.

Finally, management figure it out. The Japanese always tried to get things
perfect, no matter what the accepted tolerances were, whereas the Americans
didn't care whether it was perfect or not, as long as it fell within the
tolerances.

To fix this, Sony made the tolerances far tighter for the USA tubes. Their
quality then improved significantly.


All of which was stupidity on Sony's part.

All things have a tolerance and tighter tolerances increase costs.

If Sony needed tighter tolerance they should have originally specified
tighter tolerances instead of ****ing and moaning that stuff made to
their specified tolerance wasn't "good enough".

It was all about culture.


Wrong, it is all about getting the specifications to be what is really
needed in the first place.

That is basic engineering.


--
Jim Pennino

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  #25  
Old June 27th, 2010, 12:11 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.travel.air
Bob Myers
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Posts: 204
Default Substandard Italian workmanship renders first 787s unsafe

VOR-DME wrote:
\ I certainly hope this laziness does not extend to his piloting
activities, otherwise _bad things_ could happen!


No, nothing bad is ever going to happen there, simply because he
has no actual "piloting activities." Whenever he speaks of "piloting,"
he's actually talking about "flying" Microsoft Flight Simulator. So
nothing remotely like a real aircraft or passengers will ever be in any
danger.

Bob M.


  #26  
Old June 27th, 2010, 12:18 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.travel.air
Bob Myers
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Posts: 204
Default Substandard Italian workmanship renders first 787s unsafe

Mxsmanic wrote:
My experience and training have shown significant cultural
differences that cannot be ignored.


And again - that "experience and training," relevant to this topic,
would be - what, exactly? And is it as extensive as your experience
and training in piloting?

Bob M.


  #27  
Old June 28th, 2010, 06:38 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.travel.air
gernot almen[_3_]
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Posts: 11
Default Substandard Italian workmanship renders first 787s unsafe


"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
With what have Italian Companies supplied you over the past few years? In
what way were they defective?


I recall a pair of Gucci shoes that fell apart about a month after I
bought
them, and a wallet from the same company that had a similar lifespan.


Oh, those "best deal" Gucci shoes you bought over the internet? Don't think
they ever saw Itlay. Probably from Vietnam or Cambodia.


  #28  
Old June 28th, 2010, 11:36 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.travel.air
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 5,830
Default Substandard Italian workmanship renders first 787s unsafe

gernot almen writes:

Oh, those "best deal" Gucci shoes you bought over the internet?


No, they were bought in person at a Gucci store.

Don't think they ever saw Itlay. Probably from Vietnam or Cambodia.


I don't know. They carried the Gucci name, therefore Gucci was responsible for
them.

I seem to recall that they were actually labeled as made in Italy
(particularly the wallet) but it was long ago, and far away.
  #29  
Old June 28th, 2010, 12:33 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.travel.air
Ken S. Tucker
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Posts: 1
Default Substandard Italian workmanship renders first 787s unsafe

On Jun 25, 2:10 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
Boeing has discovered that the Italian firm to which it subcontracted
construction of tail assemblies isn't doing the work correctly, putting the 23
aircraft it has already built at risk:

http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/p...halts-787-test...

No surprise here. When you allow Third World companies to built vital parts to
your airplane, you should take for granted that there will be potentially
dangerous defects. That's the consequence of trying to be politically correct.


Wops tell me, "never trust a wop", it's good advice, but can
it be trusted?
Ken
 




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