THE WAR IN LYON

On 13/12/08 19:24, in article , "Bill Bonde {
Remember, Remember, to Vote on the 5th of November )"
wrote:

"Ville-lers le Bell", he would look at you confused because
he would have to have heard something like "Ville-lee-aye le Bell"
to understand what you were saying.

It amazes me how far you go to attack me.


Informing you, important if you take a taxi.

One of the errors of English speaks is their really gross
mispronunciations. I treated this years ago in the following
amusing post.

THE WAR IN LYON

One of the difficulties of high school French is that it is quickly
forgotten and probably never really learned. Two years of the
stuff at the age of 16-17 evaporates by the time one is 40 or 50.
The most difficult part of the language is that even familiar words are not
pronounced the same. The Europeans` pronunciation of *the alphabet *from Ah
to Zed is already different than the American (A as in hey, to Z as in Zee).

About 30% of French vocabulary uses the same words as in English, but *the
pronunciations are different . Nation. In American English it is pronounced
as "nay-shun" and in French as 'nah-see-own". *More or less!

One of the most common errors English speakers make is when they jump into
a cab and mutter *" Guerre de Lyon " when they want to go to Lyon train
station in Paris; The driver usually understands since he or she has
encountered it thousands of times; The French ear wants to hear "Gare"
(train station) *which rhymes with the English word "bar", not " guerre "
(war) which rhymes with "bear".

Historically, *Lyon is not known for its wars. It escaped being a battle
zone in WWI and WWII although was an active site for the resistance. *My
French history is poor but I remember no famous battle in the region.
Certainly it has escaped modern military attention so asking the taxi
driver to take you to any *contemporary conflict in the region will fail and
lead him to let you off at the Gare to Lyon. *This successful arrival will
deceptively lead you to believe that your French is not that bad at all,
perfect in fact, *since your desired destination has been reached.

The above subject popped into my head because of the Gare de Austerlitz and
the habit of *Europeans to name train stations after famous victorious
battles in history. *Napoleon, a war criminal, from a few centuries ago
ctually won a battle at Austerlitz which the French have not forgotten.
The bottom line battle of his career, however, was at Waterloo. *He lost.

There is no Waterloo station in Paris, or elsewhere in France. To find this
train station one will have to go to London, where they still crow about
the job they did on Napoleon. Note, however the Brits have no train station
named after the battle at Yorktown (which they lost to the French, with
some minor help from the Americans). *On the other hand, the Paris
Gare du Nord (North) and Gare de l'Est (East) could be taken in a general
sense when it comes to wars, since both of those regions have had so many
of them. *

The Americans, believing that history is bunk, have never, to my knowledge,
named any train station after a *battle. *The Americans, however, never
have had a clear idea on which battles or wars they won or lost. The war of
1812 did not go that well, and the Alamo was a defeat. Pearl Harbor rallied
the nation, *and the loss of the Philippines were historical
incidents. *True, Vietnam is not a proud moment in the nation's history, but
history never influenced train station naming as in Europe.

Anyway, you can be assured that the French will accept your bad French
gladly if they can get an inkling of an idea of what you are trying to buy
from them. The exchange of money greases the tracks of international
exchange and good will. *Pronunciation is secondary.

Earl wrote on Sat, 13 Dec 2008 21:18:19 +0100:

The above subject popped into my head because of the Gare de
Austerlitz and the habit of Europeans to name train stations
after famous victorious battles in history. Napoleon, a war
criminal, from a few centuries ago ctually won a battle at
Austerlitz which the French have not forgotten. The bottom
line battle of his career, however, was at Waterloo. He lost.

Why did you not mention the old story about the Frenchman in London at
Waterloo Station who said "You British are different from we French. We
name stations after victories, you after defeats" ?


--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On 13/12/08 21:29, in article ,
"James Silverton" wrote:

Why did you not mention the old story about the Frenchman in London at
Waterloo Station who said "You British are different from we French. We
name stations after victories, you after defeats" ?


--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland


A good one.

"James Silverton" wrote in message
...
Earl wrote on Sat, 13 Dec 2008 21:18:19 +0100:

The above subject popped into my head because of the Gare de
Austerlitz and the habit of Europeans to name train stations
after famous victorious battles in history. Napoleon, a war
criminal, from a few centuries ago ctually won a battle at
Austerlitz which the French have not forgotten. The bottom
line battle of his career, however, was at Waterloo. He lost.

Why did you not mention the old story about the Frenchman in London at
Waterloo Station who said "You British are different from we French. We
name stations after victories, you after defeats" ?


--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland


LOL - worth bookmarking.

Earl Evleth wrote:

On 13/12/08 19:24, in article , "Bill Bonde {
Remember, Remember, to Vote on the 5th of November )"
wrote:

"Ville-lers le Bell", he would look at you confused because
he would have to have heard something like "Ville-lee-aye le Bell"
to understand what you were saying.

It amazes me how far you go to attack me.

Informing you, important if you take a taxi.

Maybe French needs a phonetic orthography.




One of the errors of English speaks is their really gross
mispronunciations. I treated this years ago in the following
amusing post.

THE WAR IN LYON

One of the difficulties of high school French is that it is quickly
forgotten and probably never really learned. Two years of the
stuff at the age of 16-17 evaporates by the time one is 40 or 50.
The most difficult part of the language is that even familiar words are not
pronounced the same. The Europeans` pronunciation of the alphabet from Ah
to Zed is already different than the American (A as in hey, to Z as in Zee).

About 30% of French vocabulary uses the same words as in English, but the
pronunciations are different .

I suspect this is due to it being French and not English.




Nation. In American English it is pronounced
as "nay-shun" and in French as 'nah-see-own". More or less!

English has historical or etymological spelling, by and large. This
makes pronunciation insanely difficult. The French is probably
easier. Of course the French thing is how the word boundaries work.




One of the most common errors English speakers make is when they jump into
a cab and mutter " Guerre de Lyon " when they want to go to Lyon train
station in Paris; The driver usually understands since he or she has
encountered it thousands of times;

Which is only fair because the person saying it has probably never
encountered it said correctly: "I want to go to il treno, der Zug,
the bloody TRAIN!"



The French ear wants to hear "Gare"
(train station) which rhymes with the English word "bar", not " guerre "
(war) which rhymes with "bear".

Why would someone say "gare" to rhyme with "bear"?



Historically, Lyon is not known for its wars. It escaped being a battle
zone in WWI and WWII although was an active site for the resistance. My
French history is poor but I remember no famous battle in the region.
Certainly it has escaped modern military attention so asking the taxi
driver to take you to any contemporary conflict in the region will fail and
lead him to let you off at the Gare to Lyon. This successful arrival will
deceptively lead you to believe that your French is not that bad at all,
perfect in fact, since your desired destination has been reached.

I wouldn't conclude that my French was perfect because I could be
understood by someone who was trying to understand what I was
saying. Of course if he deliberately doesn't understand, as is
common around here, that won't make me conclude that it isn't at
least reasonable enough.


The above subject popped into my head because of the Gare de Austerlitz and
the habit of Europeans to name train stations after famous victorious
battles in history. Napoleon, a war criminal, from a few centuries ago
ctually won a battle at Austerlitz which the French have not forgotten.
The bottom line battle of his career, however, was at Waterloo. He lost.

His little thing in MockBa wasn't too successful either. Tolstoy
even wrote a novel.



There is no Waterloo station in Paris, or elsewhere in France. To find this
train station one will have to go to London, where they still crow about
the job they did on Napoleon. Note, however the Brits have no train station
named after the battle at Yorktown (which they lost to the French, with
some minor help from the Americans). On the other hand, the Paris
Gare du Nord

Is that final 'd' pronounced or not? The 'r' would be, I think.



(North) and Gare de l'Est (East) could be taken in a general
sense when it comes to wars, since both of those regions have had so many
of them.

The Americans, believing that history is bunk, have never, to my knowledge,
named any train station after a battle. The Americans, however, never
have had a clear idea on which battles or wars they won or lost. The war of
1812 did not go that well,

Did you know that it started on September 11?


and the Alamo was a defeat.

How do you define "defeat"? I guess King Pyrrhus might differ.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Alamo
#begin quote
News of the Alamo's fall prompted many Texas colonists to join
Houston's army. On the afternoon of April 21 the Texian army
attacked Santa Anna's forces in the Battle of San Jacinto. During
the battle many Texians shouted "Remember the Alamo!" Santa Anna
was captured and forced to order his troops out of Texas, ending
Mexican control of the area, now known as the Republic of Texas.
#end quote

And this doesn't even begin to tell the story of Santa Anna's loses
to the actual United States. They were actually willing to give up
all of Mexico. That's a pretty big defeat not for the US.


Pearl Harbor rallied
the nation, and the loss of the Philippines were historical
incidents. True, Vietnam is not a proud moment in the nation's history, but
history never influenced train station naming as in Europe.

Anyway, you can be assured that the French will accept your bad French
gladly if they can get an inkling of an idea of what you are trying to buy
from them. The exchange of money greases the tracks of international
exchange and good will. Pronunciation is secondary.

I thought you said this was supposed to be funny.


--
"I'm sorry, too, Dmitri... I'm very sorry... *All right*, you're
sorrier than I am, but I am as sorry as well... I am as sorry as
you are, Dmitri! Don't say that you're more sorry than I am,
because I'm capable of being just as sorry as you are... So we're
both sorry, all right?... All right." Peter Sellers, "Dr
Strangelove", 1964.

"Earl Evleth" a écrit dans le message de
...
On 13/12/08 19:24, in article , "Bill Bonde {
Remember, Remember, to Vote on the 5th of November )"
wrote:

"Ville-lers le Bell", he would look at you confused because
he would have to have heard something like "Ville-lee-aye le Bell"
to understand what you were saying.

It amazes me how far you go to attack me.


Informing you, important if you take a taxi.

One of the errors of English speaks is their really gross
mispronunciations. I treated this years ago in the following
amusing post.

THE WAR IN LYON

One of the difficulties of high school French is that it is quickly
forgotten and probably never really learned. Two years of the
stuff at the age of 16-17 evaporates by the time one is 40 or 50.
The most difficult part of the language is that even familiar words are
not
pronounced the same. The Europeans` pronunciation of the alphabet from Ah
to Zed is already different than the American (A as in hey, to Z as in
Zee).

About 30% of French vocabulary uses the same words as in English, but the
pronunciations are different . Nation. In American English it is
pronounced
as "nay-shun" and in French as 'nah-see-own". More or less!

One of the most common errors English speakers make is when they jump into
a cab and mutter " Guerre de Lyon " when they want to go to Lyon train
station in Paris; The driver usually understands since he or she has
encountered it thousands of times; The French ear wants to hear "Gare"
(train station) which rhymes with the English word "bar", not " guerre "
(war) which rhymes with "bear".

Historically, Lyon is not known for its wars. It escaped being a battle
zone in WWI and WWII although was an active site for the resistance. My
French history is poor but I remember no famous battle in the region.
Certainly it has escaped modern military attention so asking the taxi
driver to take you to any contemporary conflict in the region will fail
and
lead him to let you off at the Gare to Lyon. This successful arrival will
deceptively lead you to believe that your French is not that bad at all,
perfect in fact, since your desired destination has been reached.

The above subject popped into my head because of the Gare de Austerlitz
and
the habit of Europeans to name train stations after famous victorious
battles in history. Napoleon, a war criminal, from a few centuries ago
ctually won a battle at Austerlitz which the French have not forgotten.
The bottom line battle of his career, however, was at Waterloo. He lost.

There is no Waterloo station in Paris, or elsewhere in France. To find
this
train station one will have to go to London, where they still crow about
the job they did on Napoleon. Note, however the Brits have no train
station
named after the battle at Yorktown (which they lost to the French, with
some minor help from the Americans). On the other hand, the Paris
Gare du Nord (North) and Gare de l'Est (East) could be taken in a general
sense when it comes to wars, since both of those regions have had so many
of them.

The Americans, believing that history is bunk, have never, to my
knowledge,
named any train station after a battle. The Americans, however, never
have had a clear idea on which battles or wars they won or lost. The war
of
1812 did not go that well, and the Alamo was a defeat. Pearl Harbor
rallied
the nation, and the loss of the Philippines were historical
incidents. True, Vietnam is not a proud moment in the nation's history,
but
history never influenced train station naming as in Europe.

Anyway, you can be assured that the French will accept your bad French
gladly if they can get an inkling of an idea of what you are trying to buy
from them. The exchange of money greases the tracks of international
exchange and good will. Pronunciation is secondary.

Pfff retired people have such a sense of humor...
Haw haw now back to beddie.


"John Rennie" a écrit dans le message de
...

"James Silverton" wrote in message
...
Earl wrote on Sat, 13 Dec 2008 21:18:19 +0100:

The above subject popped into my head because of the Gare de
Austerlitz and the habit of Europeans to name train stations
after famous victorious battles in history. Napoleon, a war
criminal, from a few centuries ago ctually won a battle at
Austerlitz which the French have not forgotten. The bottom
line battle of his career, however, was at Waterloo. He lost.

Why did you not mention the old story about the Frenchman in London at
Waterloo Station who said "You British are different from we French. We
name stations after victories, you after defeats" ?


--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland


LOL - worth bookmarking.

James Silverton wrote:

Earl wrote on Sat, 13 Dec 2008 21:18:19 +0100:

The above subject popped into my head because of the Gare de
Austerlitz and the habit of Europeans to name train stations
after famous victorious battles in history. Napoleon, a war
criminal, from a few centuries ago ctually won a battle at
Austerlitz which the French have not forgotten. The bottom
line battle of his career, however, was at Waterloo. He lost.

Why did you not mention the old story about the Frenchman in London at
Waterloo Station who said "You British are different from we French. We
name stations after victories, you after defeats" ?

I'm surprised that France has any train stations.


--
"I'm sorry, too, Dmitri... I'm very sorry... *All right*, you're
sorrier than I am, but I am as sorry as well... I am as sorry as
you are, Dmitri! Don't say that you're more sorry than I am,
because I'm capable of being just as sorry as you are... So we're
both sorry, all right?... All right." Peter Sellers, "Dr
Strangelove", 1964.

Magda wrote:

On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 23:21:23 +0000, in rec.travel.europe, "Bill Bonde {
Remember, Remember, to Vote on the 5th of November )"
arranged some electrons, so they looked like
this:

... I'm surprised that France has any train stations.

I'm surprised that you know what France is.

Is this the pro-French group?

Magda wrote:

On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 00:02:13 +0000, in rec.travel.europe, "Bill Bonde {
Remember, Remember, to Vote on the 5th of November )"
arranged some electrons, so they looked like
this:

...
...
... Magda wrote:
...
... On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 23:21:23 +0000, in rec.travel.europe, "Bill Bonde {
... Remember, Remember, to Vote on the 5th of November )"
... arranged some electrons, so they looked like
... this:
...
... ... I'm surprised that France has any train stations.
...
... I'm surprised that you know what France is.
...
... Is this the pro-French group?

So, you are voting on the 5th of November - which year?

It depends on who's running.




--
"I'm sorry, too, Dmitri... I'm very sorry... *All right*, you're
sorrier than I am, but I am as sorry as well... I am as sorry as
you are, Dmitri! Don't say that you're more sorry than I am,
because I'm capable of being just as sorry as you are... So we're
both sorry, all right?... All right." Peter Sellers, "Dr
Strangelove", 1964.