SHOCKING: Britain's Defence Minister under fire for lying (BBC Radio)

Wow, that's really blown my faith in politicians :P

--
www.moviedirt.co.uk

In article , Dan Brusca
wrote:

Wow, that's really blown my faith in politicians :P


You had faith ?

What about the BBC and your faith in them?

We see yet another apology this week, this time for their editing of
the interview with a Chief Constable:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...02/05/nbbc05.x
ml&sSheet=/portal/2004/02/05/ixportal.html

jay
Fri Feb 06, 2004

Shocking! A politician lying............hang on a minute they do
that for a living but are not supposed to get caught!

It all stems from the fact that when honest politicians tell the
truth, they get voted out of office. The truth sometimes hurts.
Jimmy Carter can attest to what happens when you run a truthful
political campaign.

Carter's problem was not honesty, but being indecisive. And even his
strongest supporters recognized that Carter lacked the ability to make
decisions. He may one day be regarded as the most intelligent president
of the 20th century. But he was also one in which making no decision
was often considered a viable option. Circumstances which were unacceptable
to the voters of 1980.

The problem in Iraq may well be that even after all the dots were
connected, these did not lead to the expected outcome. Consider that Saddam
had used a particularly nasty nerve gas to kill several thousand Kurdish
citizens, and that the research by Iraq in chemical and biological weapons
was well known - even to the UN. And that lacking any such weapons, there
would have been little reason to keep UN Inspectors out of the country for
four years.

And also note that the popular media plays up the WMD subject (and at
least once every hour on NPR) but has little to say about the thousands of
graves which have been unearthed. Or that the entire population in a
number of towns were discovered to be exterminated.

(Jerry Johnson) wrote in
om:

Shocking! A politician lying............hang on a minute they do
that for a living but are not supposed to get caught!

It all stems from the fact that when honest politicians tell the
truth, they get voted out of office. The truth sometimes hurts.
Jimmy Carter can attest to what happens when you run a truthful
political campaign.

Carter's problem was not honesty, but being indecisive. And even
his strongest supporters recognized that Carter lacked the ability
to make decisions. He may one day be regarded as the most
intelligent president of the 20th century. But he was also one in
which making no decision was often considered a viable option.
Circumstances which were unacceptable to the voters of 1980.

The problem with being intelligent is seeing many options. Stupid
people can make quick decisions because they can be fooled into
accepting simple dictums like "Saddam is evil" or "45 minutes to use
of WMDs". A thoughtful and considerate President of the Untied
States (from one who lives next door) was a refreshing and welcome
change; we liked Carter, we still do. He's welcome at my house any
day.

And just for the record, it would still be a welcome change if it
were to happen again, but they say lightning doesn't strike the same
place twice. Too bad.

:-)))

--

"I'm the master of low expectations."

GWB, aboard Air Force One, 04Jun2003

On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 09:35:32 -0800, "Tarver Engineering"
wrote:


"nobody" wrote in message
...
Stark Raven wrote:
Sorry but it's the American people that history will look unkindly on.
We were terrible, petulant followers during Carter's Presidency,
unworthy of being led anywhere other than death valley.

You forgot that Carter got Egypt and Israel to sign a real, long lasting
peace
agreement that has lasted to this day. That is quite an achievement
considering that none of the other presidents were able to get anything
real done.

It has only cost American taxpayers $5 billion a year since 1979.


How many billions will it cost per year to make Iraq a democracy if it
it even possible?

On 6 Feb 2004 13:17:10 -0800, (Jerry Johnson)
wrote:

Shocking! A politician lying............hang on a minute they do
that for a living but are not supposed to get caught!

It all stems from the fact that when honest politicians tell the
truth, they get voted out of office. The truth sometimes hurts.
Jimmy Carter can attest to what happens when you run a truthful
political campaign.

Carter's problem was not honesty, but being indecisive. And even his
strongest supporters recognized that Carter lacked the ability to make
decisions. He may one day be regarded as the most intelligent president
of the 20th century. But he was also one in which making no decision
was often considered a viable option. Circumstances which were unacceptable
to the voters of 1980.

The problem in Iraq may well be that even after all the dots were
connected, these did not lead to the expected outcome. Consider that Saddam
had used a particularly nasty nerve gas to kill several thousand Kurdish
citizens, and that the research by Iraq in chemical and biological weapons
was well known - even to the UN. And that lacking any such weapons, there
would have been little reason to keep UN Inspectors out of the country for
four years.

And also note that the popular media plays up the WMD subject (and at
least once every hour on NPR) but has little to say about the thousands of
graves which have been unearthed. Or that the entire population in a
number of towns were discovered to be exterminated.


Now what country will Bush invade to SAVE the people of that nation
from living under a terrible leader?

North Korea?

Zimbawe?

Any of half a dozen other nations in Africa?

john wrote in
:

Now what country will Bush invade to SAVE the people of that
nation from living under a terrible leader?

North Korea?

Zimbawe?

Florida? :-)

--

"I'm the master of low expectations."

GWB, aboard Air Force One, 04Jun2003

"john" wrote in message
...
On 6 Feb 2004 13:17:10 -0800, (Jerry Johnson)
wrote:

Now what country will Bush invade to SAVE the people of that nation
from living under a terrible leader?
North Korea?
Zimbawe?

Maybe Tony Blair wasn't so sure (and for some reason couldn't be bothered to
ask) about the real nature of the "imminent threat" of the 45min deployable
WMD, but in the words of GWB:

When we're talking about war, we're really talking about peace

Almost every day is a new phase, in some ways, because we're reminding
different countries which may be susceptible to al Qaeda, that you're either
with us or against us. And so we're constantly working on bolstering
confidence amongst some nations which may sometimes forget that either
you're with us or you're with the terrorists. That's kind of a -- that's a
phase, I guess you could say. Phase one was Afghanistan, phase two is to
make sure that other countries don't become places for training or places
where the al Qaeda think they can hide. -- press conference with President
of Poland, White House, July 17, 2002

**** Saddam! we're taking him out. -- March 2002 (MARCH 2002!), in meeting
with Senators and Condoleeza Rice (as reported in Time Magazine, Mar. 24,
2003)

We're at war to keep the peace. -- White House, Mar. 13, 2002

Saddam Hussein is a threat to our nation. September the 11th changed the
strategic thinking, at least, as far as I was concerned, for how to protect
our country. My job is to protect the American people. It used to be that we
could think that you could contain a person like Saddam Hussein, that oceans
would protect us from his type of terror. September the 11th should say to
the American people that we're now a battlefield, that weapons of mass
destruction in the hands of a terrorist organization could be deployed here
at home. -- prime time press conference, White House, Mar. 6, 2003

I described them [Iraq] as the axis of evil once. I described them as an
enemy until proven otherwise. They obviously, you know, desire weapons of
mass destruction. -- Ridgewood Country Club, Waco, Texas, Mar. 10, 2003

It's a war in which we will hunt down those who hate America, one person at
a time. -- Washington, D.C., Mar. 4, 2003

We ended the rule of one of history's worst tyrants, and in so doing we not
only freed the American people, we made our own people more secure. --
Crawford, Texas, May 3, 2003

The [military] academies are really important for a lot of reasons.
Obviously, what you learn on the football field is even more important since
we're still at war. -- Washington, D.C., May 16, 2003

We learned a lesson September the 11th, and that is, our nation is
vulnerable to attack. The best way to secure America is to get the enemy
before they get us, and that's what's happening in Iraq. -- Crawford, Texas,
Aug. 8, 2003

It is important for the Iraqi leadership and Iraqi generals to clearly
understand that if they take innocent life, if they destroy infrastructure,
they will be held to account as war criminals. -- Washington, D.C., Feb. 25,
2003

America and our allies are called once again to defend the peace against an
aggressive tyrant, and we accept this responsibility. -- Kennesaw, Georgia,
Feb. 20, 2003

I think that we believe there are chemical weapons in Syria. -- Washington,
D.C., Apr. 13, 2003

I had -- I was there on September 11th, 2001, at Offutt. I remember their
motto. It says, 'The Sun Never Sets on the Fighting 55th.' And that's good
for the defense of the country, by the way. -- Washington, D.C., Nov. 25,
2002

I want you to think about a scenario in which he becomes the arsenal and the
training grounds for shadowy terrorists so that he can attack somebody he
hates and not leave any fingerprints behind. -- St. Louis, Missouri, Nov. 4,
2002

This is a man who continues to murder his own people, a man who has gassed
.... a man who has used chemical weapons on his neighbors, a man who has
invaded two countries, a man which hates -- who hates America, a man who
loves to link up with al Qaeda, a man who is a true threat to America, to
Israel, to anybody in the neighborhood. -- Phoenix, Arizona, Sep. 28, 2002

[Saddam Hussein is] a man who invaded two countries twice -- two countries,
once each time. -- Washington, D.C., Sep. 25, 2002

This is one of these kind of wars where things happen and you just don't
know about it. But I bet we have hauled in over a couple of thousand of
these people. -- South Bend, Indiana, Sep. 5, 2002

And speaking about hauling them in, the United States and our coalition and
friends have pulled in over a couple of thousand of them. And there's
another couple of thousand that weren't quite so lucky. -- Central Point,
Oregon, Aug. 22, 2002

It's a different kind of war because we're fighting people who are -- they
send youngsters to their suicidal deaths and they try to find a dark cave.
They're kind of lurching around in the dark corners of some cities around
the world. They're in over 60 countries. And slowly but surely, we're
dismantling the terrorist network, which hates us because of what we love.
See, they hate the fact that we love freedom. They can't stand the fact that
in this country people can worship the almighty God any way he or she sees
fit. -- Shreveport, Louisiana, Dec. 10, 2002

They hide in caves. See, this is a different kind of war. And part of my
responsibilities as your President is to remind people about the realities
that we face in America. One of the realities is, is that these people hide
in caves. -- South Bend, Indiana, Sep. 5, 2002

They act out of hatred. We don't seek revenge. We seek justice out of
love. -- Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, Aug. 29, 2002

There's a lot of war talk these days, as there should be, but it's all aimed
at making sure the world is peaceful.
-- Oakland University, Rochester, Michigan, July 18, 2002

You know, I was just reflecting the other day, we've only been at this
for -- we've haven't even been fighting this war for a year yet. And we've
got a lot of work to do. And there will be moments where the al Qaeda thinks
that, you know, maybe America is not after them, and they'll feel safe and
secure. And, you know, they think they'll kind of settle into some cave
somewhere. -- White House, May 30, 2002

We're a peaceful nation and moving along just right and just kind of having
a time, and all of a sudden, we get attacked and now we're at war, but we're
at war to keep the peace. -- White House, Mar. 13, 2002

---

In pace, iustitia omnibus.

"Jarg" wrote in message
news
wrote in message
...

You mean the truth according to Jimmy Carter? Putting aside the
subjective
nature of "truth", you are wrong that he lost because of his campaign. He
lost because he was a terrible leader and inept to boot. History will not
judge his presidency kindly.

Well at least, Carter got a couple of things right, eventhough he couldn't
always influence on or interfere in events, such as the cowardly national
betrayal by Ronald Reagan during the Iran-hostages crisis... Carter was,
and is, a well informed and opinionated man, who took a lot of positive,
daring decisions and who was very well informed (he disposed over the
intellectual skills required for the job) about world affairs - unlike later
presidents such as Bill Clinton, who failed to see the warning signals on
the deployment of nuclear capabilitiy (testing that is) by the Pakistani
junta - which had just kicked out the democratically elected govt. in
Pakistan - and George Bush, who turned coup-leader Musharaf into one of his
top allies in his war for democracy and freedom, and in his quest to find
Osama in his cave, as well as in the so-called 'war on terror' against
terrorists, against people who hate freedom, against people who hate America
or hate people who love freedom, and against anyone who is "not with us" -
such as the countries of the so-called 'axis of evil'. Meanwhile of course,
Dr. Kahn and his nuclear buddies in the pakistani military - not in the
least Gen. Musharaf himself - have been the biggest perpetrators of
WMD-proliferation in the history of mankind, exporting all kinds of nuclear
and other WMD technology to countries like North-Korea. Apparently, the
whole WMD proliferation issue was not about Iraq, as Saddam did not have any
WMD, but instead the whole problem was with Pakistan, Bush's close ally in
the war on terror, which has been exporting the stuff to "axis of evil"
countries like Iran and N-Korea...

So how is it that Carter was such a failure, and that W. Bush is such a
success in the strive for a more human/humane/humanistic and peaceful world
and in America's strive for "world peace", solidarity, 'compassion', freedom
and prosperity ???

As far as I can see, GWB is nothing else than the wrong answer for the wrong
questions.
At least Jimmy Carter got the questions right.

"Oelewapper" wrote in message
...
Britain's Defence Minister under fire for lying on Iraq - on BBC radio:


In this morning's "The Today Program" the MOD comes up with an explanation
for the Secretary's lies yesterday:

Original Interview (O5 FEB):
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/audio/geoffhoon.ram

Clarification and exposure of the lies (O5 FEB):
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/li...n_20040205.ram

MOD statement (pitty excuse) for the minister's shameless lies (O6 FEB):
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/li...d_20040206.ram

The **** goes on,... as Tony Blair and his defence secretary keep sinking
deeper away in it, and as their relentless lies are being constantly exposed
and inquired upon.