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European trip ?'s



 
 
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  #11  
Old January 3rd, 2006, 02:25 AM posted to rec.travel.europe
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Default European trip ?'s

PTRAVEL wrote:
"jst" wrote in message news:77juf.1487$Dh.457@dukeread04...
Ken Blake wrote:
jst wrote:

Our family of three( 2 adults & 17 y/o )are considering a trip to
Europe this summer. We would want to spend at least 2-3 days in
London then 5-7 days going from France ( Paris a must ) to
Switzerland ( the alps ). We have traveled the states extensively and
have never been overseas.Is this the type of trip that we should do
exclusively with a travel agency and do the group tour bit. We have
never been the types to do a group tour but would do one if we could
find the right locations included.

Your choice, of course, but personally I hate group tours and always make
plans on my own.


We are just starting to look into this and any recommendations would
be appreciated. We are budgeting 10 - 15 thousand , is this
reasonable ???
10-15 thousand what? If you mean US dollars, for 7-10 days for 3 people,
it should be more than sufficient unless you insist on first-class
everything.

First class everything for my family, you must be kidding. LOL. We have
saved a while for this trip as gift for our daughter who reaaallly wants
to go. Any Ideas on where to start planning?


Decide on the cities you want to visit (though 3 days is barely enough to
scratch the surface of London, and a week is just enough to give you a nice
feel for Paris). Since this is your first trip to Europe, I wouldn't spend
it running from city to city. Remember, too, that your arrival day is
pretty much shot, even if you're one of the lucky few who doesn't suffer
much from jet lag. I can't make recommendations in the Alps -- my
experience of Switzerland is limited to Zurich -- but I'd suggest trying to
plan an open jaw trip, i.e. fly into one city and home from another. There
is no cost penalty to do this, and avoids having to backtrack.

Remember that summer is high season for European travel -- you usually can
do better, airfare-and-hotel-wise, if you travel in the shoulder seasons,
April/May or October/November. Also remember that August is the month of La
Grande Vacance, when the French traditionally vacation.

I'd recommend that you pick up a couple of good guide books to start. My
wife and I like the DK Eyewitness series -- they're beautifully illustrated
and make nice souvenirs after the trip. They contain illustrated
neighborhood maps, and will help you decide where you want to stay. They
also contain hotel recommendations, which will give you a starting place.

You'll do better on airfares if you arrive and depart midweek. Once you've
selected your gateway cities, and priced airfare, just move on to selecting
your hotels. To get from London to Paris you'll want to take the train
under the channel. Last time I checked, first class was around $350 US per
person -- a bit pricey, but it takes you from city center to city center,
saving a huge amount of time and money over flying, as you do not have to
get to the airports, which are fairly distant from London and Paris. For
Paris to Switzerland, consider the train. European trains are comfortable,
reliable and inexpensive.

In any city, we always try to schedule day trips. These are particularly
easy from London and Paris, as both are central hubs for train travel. For
London, one of our favorite excursions was to Bath, a beautiful Georgian
city about one hour away. For Paris, a day trip to Versailles is almost a
requirement.

Within each city, it's really a question of what you enjoy -- are you an art
museum and old castle kind of person? Shopping and culture? Pub crawler?


Thank you very much, this is exactly the type of response I was looking
for.
$350 US per person

How long of a trip is this ? I guess I will have to ready myself for a
different culture and standards.
  #12  
Old January 3rd, 2006, 02:33 AM posted to rec.travel.europe
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Default European trip ?'s


"jst" wrote in message news:ffkuf.1496$Dh.670@dukeread04...
Jim Ley wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 17:37:12 -0600, jst wrote:

Our family of three( 2 adults & 17 y/o )are considering a trip to Europe
this summer. We would want to spend at least 2-3 days in London then 5-7
days going from France ( Paris a must ) to Switzerland ( the alps ). We
have traveled the states extensively and have never been overseas.Is
this the type of trip that we should do exclusively with a travel agency
and do the group tour bit. We have never been the types to do a group
tour but would do one if we could find the right locations included.
We are just starting to look into this and any recommendations would be
appreciated. We are budgeting 10 - 15 thousand , is this reasonable ???


You can easily organise this yourself, London is obviously completely
trivial for you, you speak English, and we're very used to American
tourists, and the same with Paris of course.

First step is to find a flight - open jaw Your place to London /
Geneva, you should be able to get this for under 1500 USD each
(depending on where you are in the US which I'm assuming). Hopefully
well under, but that would depend a bit where you are and when you're
travelling.

Then it's find a hotel, there are loads in all budgets from a
travellodge in London for 150 dollars that would sleep all 3 of you,
to top of the range hotels that would probably blow your budget in a
day. I'd say 300 dollars a day would get you and partner and your
daughter seperate average rooms in London or Paris. Travel between
London and Paris and Geneva (say) would cost another 200 ish dollars
each. So that's 8100 for your basic travel and living, at 10 days you
then
have somewhere between 190 and 750 dollars a day to spend on food and
entertainment - that's lots!

There's lots of sites on the web for looking at hotels, and look at
the archive for the group for specific recommendations or places to
avoid in London and Paris - but remember these are 2 of the most
touristed places in the world, you'd have to be extremely naiive not
to be able to get around yourself!

Jim.

We are definitely the adventurous type of family and have found our best
vacations in the states off of the beaten path. That is one of the reasons
why I am here on this group. The thought of being with a hundred other
people with different ideas on what to see is scary to me. Just the few
responses here have given me new insight on the trip. Since it is Europe
( NEW )it is a little intimidating at first. I figure that we can take the
Chunnel to Paris and would you guys suggest trains for the rest of the
trip?


Absolutely, but don't call it the Chunnel.

If you're not concerned with cost, and feel better having confirmed
reservations, you can book train tickets on line from the U.S. They'll cost
more, though, than what you can do in Europe.

Also, when booking train tickets, there are actually two components -- the
ticket gets you on board the train, but you will need a separate,
additional-cost seat reservation if you want to guarantee a seat. If you're
travelling in summer, I'd recommend doing this -- if it's off-season, you
can almost always buy a ticket at the station when you want to travel and
dispense with the seat reservation, as there are plenty of open seats. If
you don't get a seat reservation, when you board, just look for a seat that
doesn't have a name above the seat number.

Finally, bear in mind that Europeans travel a lot lighter than Americans, so
trains aren't designed for dragging around lots of big suitcases. You'll
have to manage them up and down the train steps yourself. Also, many
European train stations require that you ascend or descend stairs to reach
the platforms.

All stations have maps of each train. When you get to the platform, find
the maps, identify your train number, then look at the car layout -- it will
tell you where on the platform you'll be able to board your car.

If your bag is small enough, it may fit on the rack above the seat (they
accomodate bigger bags than airline carryons). Otherwise, you'll have to
leave your bag at the end of the car in the common baggage area. If you do
so, keep an eye on your bags -- luggage theft, though not common, is not
unheard of. I carry a small, light, flexible bike chain that lets me chain
my bags together.






  #13  
Old January 3rd, 2006, 03:37 AM posted to rec.travel.europe
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Default European trip ?'s

We have traveled from the US to Europe five times (two adults and two
teenagers). In March we are traveling to China, and in July we are
going back to Paris and the Riviera. We have always planned the trips
ourselves and never used a tour group. Consider:

- You can easily purchase your own plane tickets online, and even pick
your seats. There are plenty of travel sites available - I typically
use Expedia. Try different itineraries and dates to find the best
prices. Keep in mind that air travel to Europe during the summer can
cost twice as much as travel during other times of the year.

- You can also easily investigate hotels (and make reservations)
through sites like Expedia. If staying in Paris for a week, however,
you should look into renting an apartment. This can be much cheaper
and a more interesting experience than staying in a hotel. I can
personally recommend Madelyn and Philippe at
http://www.parisperfect.com. Nice people with nice apartments!

- Taking trains around Europe is very easy too. I've never bought
tickets in advance, but I research the schedules at
http://www.raileurope.com.

Tips:

- I don't know where you live, but if at all possible get a direct
flight to London (or whatever your first destination is). Pay a few
extra dollars and avoid beginning your trip by missing a connection in
the US due to weather, etc.

- Many flights to Europe from the US are overnight flights. Sleeping
difficulties (especially in coach) combined with jet lag can make the
first day or two really rough. If arriving in the morning, book a
hotel room for the night before so that you can check in immediately
upon arrival and try to catch a quick nap.

- Also, due to jet lag, I would not suggest spending only a couple of
days in your first city. You may be zonked for your first couple of
days, and you probably don't want them to be the only ones you spend in
London. If you're going to spend a week in Paris, begin your trip
there and get acclimated.

- As I think someone else suggested, get the Dorling Kindersly
Eyewitness travel books for the places you want to visit. They are
awesome and full of lots of helpful material.

- Lastly - my two cents - as opposed to three days in London and a week
in Paris, I'd suggest five in each. They're both great cities, and
five days is plenty to get a flavor for each. This would probably
eliminate the apartment option as a week's stay is usually required.
Paris is awesome, but don't underestimate London... We love it there!

Have fun!

Michael W.
Chicago, IL, USA

  #14  
Old January 3rd, 2006, 06:11 AM posted to rec.travel.europe
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Default European trip ?'s


"jst" wrote in message news:2Oiuf.1482$Dh.1371@dukeread04...
Our family of three( 2 adults & 17 y/o )are considering a trip to Europe
this summer. We would want to spend at least 2-3 days in London then 5-7
days going from France ( Paris a must ) to Switzerland ( the alps ). We
have traveled the states extensively and have never been overseas.Is
this the type of trip that we should do exclusively with a travel agency
and do the group tour bit. We have never been the types to do a group
tour but would do one if we could find the right locations included.
We are just starting to look into this and any recommendations would be
appreciated. We are budgeting 10 - 15 thousand , is this reasonable ???


I agree with most things that have been written about independent travel,
London, Paris and travel between the cities, so I won't add to that.
When going to Switzerland I would take the train from Geneva to Interlaken.
Take a day trip to Jungfraujoch. Train from Interlaken to Grindelwald and
then another train up the mountain. If you take the very first train of the
day you get a 50% reduction but you have leave Jungfraujoch before noon. On
the way down (as well as up) you have to change trains at Kleine Scheidegg.
I would take the opportunity to go for a walk along the path to Mannlichen.
This is almost level. You can then either return to KS for the train or
continue the walk to M and take a cable car down to Grindelwald. All in all
a great day out. There are other day trips you can do from Interlaken as
well.

Gerrit - Oz


  #15  
Old January 3rd, 2006, 06:37 AM posted to rec.travel.europe
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Default European trip ?'s

On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 17:37:12 -0600, jst wrote:

Our family of three( 2 adults & 17 y/o )are considering a trip to Europe
this summer. We would want to spend at least 2-3 days in London then 5-7
days going from France ( Paris a must ) to Switzerland ( the alps ). We
have traveled the states extensively and have never been overseas.Is
this the type of trip that we should do exclusively with a travel agency
and do the group tour bit. We have never been the types to do a group
tour but would do one if we could find the right locations included.
We are just starting to look into this and any recommendations would be
appreciated. We are budgeting 10 - 15 thousand , is this reasonable ???


I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in on your travel question. There
has already been a lot of very good recommendations made by others.
I'm in the midst of planning an extensive trip to Europe in the
Spring, so have done quite a bit of research. This will be my 5th
trip to Europe, but most of my trips were almost 30 years ago before I
was married. This time, I'm taking my wife to show her all of the
places that I have longed to show her.

The first time I went to Europe, I took a tour. I didn't have my
Europe travel confidence up yet. I enjoyed my tour very much, but
would never do it again. You are simply too insulated from the
cultures you're trying to get in contact with. If that's what you
want (to be surrounded by Americans, staying in American-type hotels,
eating American-type restaurants) then tours are great. I can tell you
that it is quite easy to travel around Europe. My subsequent trips to
the Continent have been using Eurail and making use of their
extraordinary train system (sometimes boats and buses are covered by
Eurail, too). My upcoming trip will be the same. When I was in
England in 1997, we rented a car and drove for the 10 days of our
trip. That worked great, too. This time, we're flying into Dublin,
Ireland, renting a car for a week for traveling around Ireland, then
flying to London, then catching the Eurostar ("Chunnel", but I guess
Europeans don't like that term) to Belgium and the Netherlands, then
down to Paris, next to the Normandy coast, then southern France (Nice
area), then into Italy, Austria, Switzerland, Germany, Denmark,
Sweden, and Oslo (from which we hope to fly home). This is a 10-week
trip.

Your planned trip is not really long enough to get very deep into any
of the cultures you're going to see, but if that's all the time you
have, then you definitely can make the most of your time, by planning
in advance to take in the highpoints of each area. This time out for
us, I'm using Rick Steves' books extensively, since he tends to travel
like I do--sees a lot in a fairly short time. He also has great
recommendations for restaurants and more reasonably priced hotels, bed
& breakfasts, pensions, etc. His travel series can also be caught on
PBS a good deal of the time. His "Best of Europe" book is really what
you need for your limited time. If you belong to AAA, they sell it
for a discount.

If you do make it to Switzerland (and I hope you do), I definitely can
recommend that you spend your time in the Jungfrau region. If the
weather cooperates, it's an extraordinary experience. Stay in a city
like Wengen or Murren (more remote), but with mountain scenery that
will leave you awestruck and truly give you a feel for the Alps and
the Swiss people. If you don't fly to Switzerland, count on an all
day (or an overnight) train to get into the heart of Switzerland. You
might consider an open-jaw trip, flying to London and returning home
from Zurich or Bern, Switzerland. It will permit you not to have to
waste your time doubling back to your starting city.

When researching hotels, you might check out tripadvisor.com. It's
terrific in giving you an idea of prices and recommendations on the
best accommodations in most areas. Since you're traveling in "high"
season, you will have more of a concern about finding places to stay,
but generally, you can still go without reservations and use the train
stations or tourist offices to help you find a place. I would have a
listing of recommended hotels before going, however, so as not to get
"stuck" with some dump. I usually make reservations for our arrival
point and our departure point, then play it by ear from there.

I would describe my wife and I as "budget" travelers. We don't stay
in expensive or even moderately expensive hotels, so we tend to look
for the "quaint" small hotels, guesthouses, bed & breakfasts, etc. I
do have one "cheap" recommendation that a travel agent pass along to
me for Paris if you don't mind staying in a something less that quaint
place--more like a Motel 6 "cookie cutter" place--but with a lot of
positive comments, including clean and well kept. It's called the
Etap Hotel chain, specifically, we're considering Etap Hotel Paris La
Villette. A room for 2 is about $65/night, as compared to the vast
majority of "budget" accommodations for at least twice that amount and
usually more. Only problem is that they only permit reservations 100
days in advance of your arrival, so I'm still waiting to make my
reservation (1/18/06).

If I can help you in any way, please let me know. I have a lot of
information on a lot of areas within Europe if you need help. The
rec.travel.europe newsgroup is a very valuable aid in getting lots of
great input.

Best of luck to you in planning your adventure.

Take care and happy new year.

Stan in CA
  #16  
Old January 3rd, 2006, 06:50 AM posted to rec.travel.europe
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Default European trip ?'s

In article _nkuf.1497$Dh.335@dukeread04, jst wrote:

$350 US per person

How long of a trip is this ? I guess I will have to ready myself for a
different culture and standards.


He is referring to the Eurostar train, which can be had for much
cheaper. The new key to lower rates is booking more than 21 days in
advance.

Just order your tickets online, and you can collect them at the
"Will-Call" window. Booking a 'return' fare and throwing it away, is
cheaper than a one-way... it does not appear to violate the TOC.

http://www.eurostar.com

I recommend this hotel in London for its location:

http://www.premiertravelinn.com/pti/...?hotelId=23881

Next to the London Eye, across the bridge to Big Ben and about 15 min
walk to the "West End" for an evening out. It is about 400 yards to
Waterloo station a large 'Tube' station and the station that your train
trip to Paris will start from.

This is a picture I took from room #406 at London's Travel Inn- County
Hall.

http://tinyurl.com/8lqup

http://homepage.mac.com/gofig/usenet/PhotoAlbum39.html

jay
Mon Jan 02, 2006

  #17  
Old January 3rd, 2006, 08:20 AM posted to rec.travel.europe
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Default European trip ?'s

On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 19:25:56 -0600, jst wrote:

$350 US per person

How long of a trip is this ? I guess I will have to ready myself for a
different culture and standards.


London-Paris is a bit under three hours on the train. As the previous
poster says, $350 is very much the first class fa when I went
London-Paris in the spring last year it cost me £60 (around US$ 100)
return (round trip).

The plane isn't necessarily more expensive, but the train is usually
as fast when you've taken into account getting to airports at each
end. For longer trips you may well find that low-cost airlines are
cheaper than trains. Also be aware that buying European train tickets
in the US is usually more expensive than buying them in Europe.

Given only three days in London, I would stay somewhere central. So
long as you can find somewhere suitable to stay, there doesn't seem
any point in taking an organised tour for the London section at least.

Martin
  #18  
Old January 3rd, 2006, 08:41 AM posted to rec.travel.europe
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Default European trip ?'s

jst wrote:

Our family of three( 2 adults & 17 y/o )are considering a trip to
Europe this summer. We would want to spend at least 2-3 days in
London then 5-7 days going from France ( Paris a must ) to
Switzerland ( the alps ). We have traveled the states


Which states? Or just the States?
SCNR.

extensively and have never been overseas.Is this the type of trip that
we should do exclusively with a travel agency and do the group tour
bit.


I stayed in Europe for most of the last 45 years including trevelling
there quite a bit and I never did a group tour or even made use of a
travel agencs (except maybe for booking some business trips in the
pre-internet era). It's certainly not a must or even schould.

Jens
  #19  
Old January 3rd, 2006, 09:12 AM posted to rec.travel.europe
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Posts: n/a
Default European trip ?'s


"jst" wrote in message news:_nkuf.1497$Dh.335@dukeread04...
PTRAVEL wrote:


$350 US per person

How long of a trip is this ? I guess I will have to ready myself for a
different culture and standards.


The Channel train takes a little over 3 hours from London to Paris. It's a
high-speed train and, by far, the fastest and most convenient way to get
between these cities. I've done it by plane, and also by train and ferry
(the English Channel in a ferry can be quite an experience) -- I far prefer
the Channel train.

Speaking of different cultures, you'll find no problem in London at all.
They're very used to American tourists, and you'll almost certainly find
more similarities than differences. Though French culture is different, the
French have gotten a very bad rap in the American media. Study your
guidebook before you go, so you'll know how to avoid the kind of faux pas
that put Americans in a bad light. As a minor example, if, on walking into
a shop you greet the shopkeeper with, "Bonjour," you'll be warmly greeted
and given assistance. If you neglect this staple of French etiquette,
you'll be written off as a boorish American tourist and given the cold
shoulder that you deserve.

I think it is important to learn some simple phrases whenever you travel to
a different country. For example, learn, "please, thank you, excuse me,
hello and good bye." Your guidebook will have a simple phrase list at the
back. As it happens, I speak some French, though I'm far from fluent. I
can, however, get by reasonably well in French-speaking countries. My wife,
however, speaks no French beyond the simple phrases, but is always treated
courteously and well and enjoys our visits to France immensely.


  #20  
Old January 3rd, 2006, 09:15 AM posted to rec.travel.europe
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Posts: n/a
Default European trip ?'s


"Martin Rich" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 19:25:56 -0600, jst wrote:

$350 US per person

How long of a trip is this ? I guess I will have to ready myself for a
different culture and standards.


London-Paris is a bit under three hours on the train. As the previous
poster says, $350 is very much the first class fa when I went
London-Paris in the spring last year it cost me £60 (around US$ 100)
return (round trip).


Incidently, I'd add that First Class really isn't necessary, though in high
season it may ensure an added degree of comfort given the crowds that make
the trip.



The plane isn't necessarily more expensive, but the train is usually
as fast when you've taken into account getting to airports at each
end. For longer trips you may well find that low-cost airlines are
cheaper than trains. Also be aware that buying European train tickets
in the US is usually more expensive than buying them in Europe.

Given only three days in London, I would stay somewhere central. So
long as you can find somewhere suitable to stay, there doesn't seem
any point in taking an organised tour for the London section at least.

Martin



 




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