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SHOCKING: Britain's Defence Minister under fire for lying (BBC Radio)



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 6th, 2004, 12:10 AM
Warchild
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Default SHOCKING: Britain's Defence Minister under fire for lying (BBC Radio)


"Jarg" wrote in message
news
wrote in message
...
In rec.food.cooking Mycroft wrote:
Shocking! A politician lying............hang on a minute they do that

for a
living but are not supposed to get caught!


It all stems from the fact that when honest politicians tell the truth,

they get
voted out of office. The truth sometimes hurts. Jimmy Carter can attest

to
what
happens when you run a truthful political campaign.


You mean the truth according to Jimmy Carter? Putting aside the

subjective
nature of "truth", you are wrong that he lost because of his campaign. He
lost because he was a terrible leader and inept to boot. History will not
judge his presidency kindly.

Jarg


History looks at Jimmy Carter very kindly. As for his presidency, I don't
think that history will give it much thought, as it wasn't noted for
war-mongering and personal scandals. Certainly he had his problems to
overcome, like the hostage crisis, but he had his successes, like Camp
David.


  #12  
Old February 6th, 2004, 12:14 AM
Jarg
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Default SHOCKING: Britain's Defence Minister under fire for lying (BBC Radio)

"devil" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 05 Feb 2004 19:00:51 +0000, Jarg wrote:

..

He mostly lost because of the deep recession that putting inflation under
control required.



I'm not sure many economists would concur withh your views about the
necessity of a recession to control inflation. Certainly in other times
inflation has been controlled without recession. In any case, that was only
one reason he lost the election. You are overlooking his foreign policy
failures, the Iran hostage crisis and Afghanistan for example. Nice enough
man but he exuded impotence.

Jarg


  #13  
Old February 6th, 2004, 12:55 AM
devil
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Default SHOCKING: Britain's Defence Minister under fire for lying (BBC Radio)

On Thu, 05 Feb 2004 23:14:53 +0000, Jarg wrote:

"devil" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 05 Feb 2004 19:00:51 +0000, Jarg wrote:

.

He mostly lost because of the deep recession that putting inflation under
control required.



I'm not sure many economists would concur withh your views about the
necessity of a recession to control inflation. Certainly in other times
inflation has been controlled without recession.

I have not heard many negative reports of Volcker's time at the feds.
Reagan could not do better than keep him.

As to wishful thinking, besides indluging in voodoo thing, it's not clear
to me that in the circumstances, inflation could have been brought under
control except by shock therapy. Massive increase in interest rates.

In any case, that was only
one reason he lost the election. You are overlooking his foreign policy
failures, the Iran hostage crisis and Afghanistan for example. Nice enough
man but he exuded impotence.


The dirty trick that Reagan played with Iran helped too. But at the end
of the day, the perception that the economy was terrible did it.
  #14  
Old February 6th, 2004, 02:48 AM
Oelewapper
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Default SHOCKING: Britain's Defence Minister under fire for lying (BBC Radio)


"nobody" wrote in message
...

Well, there is nothing that is terribly new in that 20 minute broadcast.

Just
confirms suspicions that
1- the intelligence knew there was no international threath
2- ministers and Bliar made sure they had deniability.


First of all, you've got to keep in mind the exact circumstances of this
morning's interview: about one week after the Hutton-whitewash, by the same
program (the Today Program) that sparked the whole "Hutton-Kelly-BBC" row
and put the defence minister in an extremely difficult position.
But above all, during this interview - following yesterday's Common's
scandal about the PM's ignorance about the 45min WMD claim - the defence
minister actually gets caught with his pants down: in a follow up report
towards the end of the program (see other audio-file), we hear some quotes
by the minister from the time of the Hutton-inquiry, where he confirms to be
well aware that the public opinion (misguided by major press outlets)
thought that the 45-minute claim referred to ballistic weapon delivery
capabilities, and that this was exactly the ("imminent threat")
issue/argument at the time:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/li...n_20040205.ram

The defence minister says there that he 'recalls' the press articles... in
other press interviews, he has earlier said that he didn't bother to correct
public opinion because that would be something that would have been "too
difficult" to achieve...

The conclusions of this are far reaching, which is why the journalist (John
Humphrey) keeps pressing the issue:

1. Tony Blair should have asked questions about this '45mins imminent threat
WMD' issue, because it concerned the security of the nation. Now Blair says
he didn't bother to ask... despite the fact that he toke the country to war
over the issue.
2. Geoff Hoon is lying, and actually contradicting earlier statements in the
press and before the Hutton inquiry (under oath).
3. David Kelly, whose name was leaked to the press by Geoff Hoon's office,
under supervision of Tony Blair who said that he was "empathlically not"
aware of the naming strategy, despite the fact that Lord Hutton, of all
people, found that the PM indeed was chairing the precise meeting where this
naming strategy was decided upon - well David Kelly was right when he said
that the intelligence was exagerated and sexed up by people like Tony
Blair's press spokesman, Alistair Campbell.
4. Andrew Gilligan, the BBC's Today Program journalist who had claimed the
govt. sexed up the WMD information "knowingly", after which Lord Hutton
found that AG did not have the necessary proof to substantiate this claim,
and AG last week was forced to quit the BBC; well AG is hereby proven right:
the govt. sexed the information up "knowingly", as comes clear out of this
interview !!!

This radio interview is a real shocker !!! This is not the normal way BBC
journalists interview politicians,... but given the particular
circumstances, and the accurate exposure of the exact lies by TB and GH,
that were the issue of the Hutton-report/whitewash, I believe John Humphry
was absolutely right to press the issue in the way that he did.

Andrew Gilligan and Greg Dyke should be restored in their job at the BBC.
Geoff Hoon and Tony Blair are not ordinary politicians, lying as part of
their job, but instead they are national traitors and international war
criminals, and they should therefore be made to resign...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/audio/geoffhoon.ram
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/li...n_20040205.ram


  #15  
Old February 6th, 2004, 01:14 PM
John Bailey
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Default SHOCKING: Britain's Defence Minister under fire for lying (BBC Radio)


"Sam D." wrote in message
...

"Oelewapper" wrote in message
...
Britain's Defence Minister under fire for lying on Iraq - on BBC radio:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/audio/geoffhoon.ram


Sensational. Incredible stuff... !!!!


But what did he prepare for dinner?


If he keeps dropping his boss in the brown sticky stuff... Cyanide?

John

Hoping he invites Tony over to share.



  #16  
Old February 6th, 2004, 01:59 PM
Stark Raven
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Default SHOCKING: Britain's Defence Minister under fire for lying (BBC Radio)

In article , Jarg
wrote:

You mean the truth according to Jimmy Carter? Putting aside the subjective
nature of "truth", you are wrong that he lost because of his campaign. He
lost because he was a terrible leader and inept to boot. History will not
judge his presidency kindly.

Jarg

Sorry but it's the American people that history will look unkindly on.
We were terrible, petulant followers during Carter's Presidency,
unworthy of being led anywhere other than death valley.
  #17  
Old February 6th, 2004, 04:28 PM
Alan R Williams
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Default SHOCKING: Britain's Defence Minister under fire for lying (BBC Radio)

"John Bailey" writes:

"Sam D." wrote in message
...

"Oelewapper" wrote in message
...
Britain's Defence Minister under fire for lying on Iraq - on BBC radio:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/audio/geoffhoon.ram


Sensational. Incredible stuff... !!!!


But what did he prepare for dinner?


If he keeps dropping his boss in the brown sticky stuff... Cyanide?

John

Hoping he invites Tony over to share.


Maybe they could go for a walk in the woods together.

Alan

--
Alan Williams, Room IT301, Department of Computer Science,
University of Manchester, Oxford Road, Manchester, M13 9PL, U.K.
Tel: +44 161 275 6270 Fax: +44 161 275 6280
  #18  
Old February 6th, 2004, 06:07 PM
nobody
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Default SHOCKING: Britain's Defence Minister under fire for lying (BBCRadio)

Stark Raven wrote:
Sorry but it's the American people that history will look unkindly on.
We were terrible, petulant followers during Carter's Presidency,
unworthy of being led anywhere other than death valley.


You forgot that Carter got Egypt and Israel to sign a real, long lasting peace
agreement that has lasted to this day. That is quite an achievement
considering that none of the other presidents were able to get anything real done.

A president doesn't have 100% control over the ecomomy. He can help steer it,
but he can't steer it. It is possible that Carter may not have steered it
sufficiently in the right direction (or perhaps helped steer it in wrong
direction). But it isn't 100% his own doing. (and yes, that applies to Bush
as well, although Bush definitely has streered it very much in the wrong
direction over his whole stay at the white house)

As far as the Iran hostages issue, which was Carter's real undoing at the 1980
elections, it would have happened to any USA president at the helm during that
time period.
  #19  
Old February 6th, 2004, 06:35 PM
Tarver Engineering
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Default SHOCKING: Britain's Defence Minister under fire for lying (BBC Radio)


"nobody" wrote in message
...
Stark Raven wrote:
Sorry but it's the American people that history will look unkindly on.
We were terrible, petulant followers during Carter's Presidency,
unworthy of being led anywhere other than death valley.


You forgot that Carter got Egypt and Israel to sign a real, long lasting

peace
agreement that has lasted to this day. That is quite an achievement
considering that none of the other presidents were able to get anything

real done.

It has only cost American taxpayers $5 billion a year since 1979.


  #20  
Old February 6th, 2004, 08:02 PM
John Bailey
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Default SHOCKING: Britain's Defence Minister under fire for lying (BBC Radio)

Sensational. Incredible stuff... !!!!


But what did he prepare for dinner?


If he keeps dropping his boss in the brown sticky stuff... Cyanide?

John

Hoping he invites Tony over to share.


Maybe they could go for a walk in the woods together.

Alan


Such a nice picture....

john






 




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