Guess which country is the most unfriendly to visitors?

sechumlib wrote:
On 2006-11-23 09:54:57 -0500, T Jr Hardman
said:

Well, obviously not in that way at that time, though I suppose it's
arguable that whoever might have had Henry Kissinger as an advisor
might have chosen to go that route, if Nixon hadn't been president.
But that's "would have if only" which isn't much worth arguing as it
is all conjecture where not outright fantasy.


Let me ask the same question another way. Do you think that, if Nixon
had not been president, "Communist" China would never have been opened
up to the rest of the world with particular reference to the US?

I suppose it's possible. Perhaps it was almost inevitable. Then again,
perhaps not. It's so deeply embedded in the fact of reality in the
modern day that some might have called it inevitable due to economic
determinism etc etc. Some others might say that it was a fluke of the
personalities involved and that it couldn't have happened without them.

Isn't that a question more properly asked in news:alt.alternative-history ?


--
http://thomashardman.com/ Centrist, Moderate, Republican in Maryland
A true Conservative isn't about to let
the enemies of America ruin his streams for Trout.

On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 09:52:31 -0500, T Jr Hardman
wrote:

Dave Frightens Me wrote:

So now you're projecting that about me. Pot, kettle, black.

Let's just say that your "theory of other minds" is a bit out of whack.

Let's just say that you can't acknowledge being wrong.

That being said, I'd still like to see illegal aliens convinced to go home.

Let's just say you'd be happy to have them as a scapegoat if it's a
ticket for you to get into office.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 09:57:51 -0500, T Jr Hardman
wrote:

Dave Frightens Me wrote:
On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 19:54:38 -0500, T Jr Hardman
wrote:


Dave Frightens Me wrote:

On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 14:08:01 -0500, T Jr Hardman
wrote:

That's frankly bizarre. The Maryland resort Ocean City has a large
hospitality industry which is effectively staffed by H-1B/H-2B workers,
mostly vacationing students from Eastern Europe. Romanians, Poles,
Ukrainians, etc., are well represented. They come here and work long
hours for pay far less than the average American would require for that
sort of work, get little benefits, and somehow manage to return home at
the end of the summer with the sort of savings on hand that one could
get in their homelands only with the best private-sector jobs.


Utter rubbish. Nothing of the sort happens.

See the _Washington Post Magazine_ article of sometime last summer,
which I paraphrased. The phenomenon is also well-documented elsewhere.

Is the above what you were "holding forth"?


I did make a mistake, ordinarily they work over the summer on the J1 visa:

http://atbinternetgroup.com/studentguide/

(Consider yourself called an ignorant ****wit.)


May I quote you in saying:

"**** you.

Pointing me at a library, without any summary or argument, does not
constitute a case.

Hold forth upon your point, sir, or be considered to have had none."

I did hold forth upon my point, and you snipped it, and appear to be
implying that I had none.

You did nothing of the sort. You quoted nothing specific and resorted
to calling me an "ignorant ****wit". I haven't resorted to
reciprocating, you may have noticed.

You did, however, leave in the evidence of me providing a cite to back
up my claim. How polite of you.

I am not polite, and don't care to be.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

Dave Frightens Me wrote:
On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 09:52:31 -0500, T Jr Hardman
wrote:


Dave Frightens Me wrote:


So now you're projecting that about me. Pot, kettle, black.

Let's just say that your "theory of other minds" is a bit out of whack.


Let's just say that you can't acknowledge being wrong.

Let's just say that if I was actually wrong, I'd say "I stand
corrected", I have done that on the rare occasion I was actually wrong.



That being said, I'd still like to see illegal aliens convinced to go home.


Let's just say you'd be happy to have them as a scapegoat if it's a
ticket for you to get into office.

Not at all. Try hard to not lie about me or put words in my mouth.
Actually I did make "no driver licenses for illegal aliens" part of my
platform. I'm also anti-gang. We have a problem around here with MS-13,
a gang which is mostly Salvadoran/Salvadoran-American. Deportation of
felonious aliens is one of the best tools we have against them.


--
http://thomashardman.com/ Centrist, Moderate, Republican in Maryland
A true Conservative isn't about to let
the enemies of America ruin his streams for Trout.

On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 10:02:57 -0500, T Jr Hardman
wrote:

Hoy Paloy wrote:
On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 00:08:07 +0100, Dave Frightens Me
wrote:


On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 14:08:01 -0500, T Jr Hardman
wrote:


wrote:

On 21 Nov 2006 07:03:47 -0800, "SwampMidget"
wrote:



That's a shame. We should be more welcoming to guests of our country.
I think the first thing we should do is expel the illegal immigrants so
we have greater resources for the legal welcomed guests and there'd be
reduced crime.


Ummmmm..... all these "welcomed" guest would be waiting hours just to
have their rooms made up, their clothes washed, and their tables
cleared. There would be little food on their dining table and no wine
to speak of.

That's frankly bizarre. The Maryland resort Ocean City has a large
hospitality industry which is effectively staffed by H-1B/H-2B workers,
mostly vacationing students from Eastern Europe. Romanians, Poles,
Ukrainians, etc., are well represented. They come here and work long
hours for pay far less than the average American would require for that
sort of work, get little benefits, and somehow manage to return home at
the end of the summer with the sort of savings on hand that one could
get in their homelands only with the best private-sector jobs.

Utter rubbish. Nothing of the sort happens.


Utter rubbish? We have the exact same thing gone on here in my Sierrra
resort town. He is describing ours perfectly, and he's on the other
side of the country. They are like that, they do work like that, and
they do leave with a bunch of savings like that. He only forgot to
leave out how attractive most of their girls are.

You have too many smart mouth comments for someone so ignorant.

Looking at the lack of a posting-host and that it comes from Free
University in Berlin, I'm guessing it's a semi-professional newsgroup
troll.

You need go no further than my website. It will tell and show you all
you might want to know about me, plus a valid email address if you
want to know more.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

Dave Frightens Me wrote:
On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 09:57:51 -0500, T Jr Hardman
wrote:


Dave Frightens Me wrote:

On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 19:54:38 -0500, T Jr Hardman
wrote:



Dave Frightens Me wrote:


On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 14:08:01 -0500, T Jr Hardman
wrote:


That's frankly bizarre. The Maryland resort Ocean City has a large
hospitality industry which is effectively staffed by H-1B/H-2B workers,
mostly vacationing students from Eastern Europe. Romanians, Poles,
Ukrainians, etc., are well represented. They come here and work long
hours for pay far less than the average American would require for that
sort of work, get little benefits, and somehow manage to return home at
the end of the summer with the sort of savings on hand that one could
get in their homelands only with the best private-sector jobs.


Utter rubbish. Nothing of the sort happens.

See the _Washington Post Magazine_ article of sometime last summer,
which I paraphrased. The phenomenon is also well-documented elsewhere.


Is the above what you were "holding forth"?

No, on your remark about hillbillies.



I did make a mistake, ordinarily they work over the summer on the J1 visa:

http://atbinternetgroup.com/studentguide/

(Consider yourself called an ignorant ****wit.)


May I quote you in saying:

"**** you.

Pointing me at a library, without any summary or argument, does not
constitute a case.

Hold forth upon your point, sir, or be considered to have had none."

I did hold forth upon my point, and you snipped it, and appear to be
implying that I had none.


You did nothing of the sort.

Why, yes I did. Here it is:

quote in-part Message-ID: \


Your audience is international here, so be careful. You are not
talking to ignorant hillbillys from Maryland.


I'm hardly a hillbilly. We do have them, but mostly they're people who
moved here from West (by god) Virginia. Maryland's public schools are,
generally, some of the best in the nation. I attended Montgomery County
schools when they _were_ the best in the nation.

Maryland's District 19 is a suburb of the Nation's Capital. We have one
of the highest levels of persons with advanced degrees. We are the
nation's capital of genetic research, and just outside of District 19
(largely a bedroom district, with median home values of about a million
dollars) is NIH, Celera Genomics, a reseach annex of John's Hopkins
University, the TIGR research facility, a huge number of places whose
products simply cannot be discussed unless you want a lot of people from
across the river in McLean VA to track you down and kill everyone you
know. We also have one of the highest percentages of LEGAL immigrants,
who have on-average a higher level of education than the mean for
non-immigrants, which is slightly below an MS, MA, or MBA. Until quite
recently, the majority of people hereabouts worked either for the
government, or for one of the many research facilities or contractors to
the Federal defense and research establishments. The University of
Maryland, right up the road, is the world's largest university. We're
probably more international than you are, even if you're a Greenland
Eskimo with an Oxford degree residing in Pago Pago with bank accounts in
the Bahamas and Switzerland. I don't even have to leave my neighborhood
to hear 10 languages in five minutes of casual passersby conversations,
and I live in the suburbs. A 15-minute subway ride will land me at the
foot of Capitol Hill and the multilingual scene becomes even more complex.

If you want to slag on Baltimore, feel free. If you want to joke about
the people out in the Panhandle, feel free. If you want to joke about us
in Montgomery County, feel free, but try to have the slightest goddamn
clue whereof you speak, unless you'd like to make more of an ass out of
yourself than already you've done.

/quote


You quoted nothing specific and resorted
to calling me an "ignorant ****wit". I haven't resorted to
reciprocating, you may have noticed.

Calling my fellow Marylanders -- and presumably myself -- "ignorant
hillbillies" amounts to the same.

I pointed you to a quick and easy reference for you to verify my
contention. If your point is that I should have quoted from it, that
might be a useful point to make if made as such. As it is, you seem
quite anxious to steer the conversation elsewhere.


You did, however, leave in the evidence of me providing a cite to back
up my claim. How polite of you.


I am not polite, and don't care to be.

Then expect to be called an ignorant ****wit with some frequency. Or
perhaps merely a ****wit.

--
http://thomashardman.com/ Centrist, Moderate, Republican in Maryland
A true Conservative isn't about to let
the enemies of America ruin his streams for Trout.

"sechumlib" wrote in message
news:2006112311541216807-sechumlib@liberalnet...
On 2006-11-23 09:54:57 -0500, T Jr Hardman
said:

Well, obviously not in that way at that time, though I suppose it's
arguable that whoever might have had Henry Kissinger as an advisor might
have chosen to go that route, if Nixon hadn't been president. But that's
"would have if only" which isn't much worth arguing as it is all
conjecture where not outright fantasy.

Let me ask the same question another way. Do you think that, if Nixon had
not been president, "Communist" China would never have been opened up to
the rest of the world with particular reference to the US?

Without a doubt China would have opened up no matter who was president.
Nixon just happened to be president when the Sino-Soviet rift became heated.
It was inevitable that China would seek out the US as a counterweight. It
was just easier to implement with an "anti-Communist" like Nixon in the
White House.

--
"If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of
fighting a foreign enemy." James Madison