Guess which country is the most unfriendly to visitors?

Ramon F Herrera wrote:
SwampMidget wrote:

That's a shame. We should be more welcoming to guests of our country.
I think the first thing we should do is expel the illegal immigrants so
we have greater resources for the legal welcomed guests and there'd be
reduced crime.


The most fundamental resource, the most valuable, the most scarce
resource is the human resource.

The USA is running out of white people.

Actually, we have a perfectly stable population.


It has always needed outside
blood (first the african slaves, now the mexicans who are quasi-slaves)
in order to grow and keep its standard of living.

I'd call that an unsupportable assertion. Been huffing paint-thinner
again, Ray?


--
http://thomashardman.com/ Centrist, Moderate, Republican in Maryland
A true Conservative isn't about to let
the enemies of America ruin his streams for Trout.

sechumlib wrote:
On 2006-11-21 10:24:48 -0500, "SwampMidget" said:


Ramon F Herrera wrote:

SwampMidget wrote:

That's a shame. We should be more welcoming to guests of our country.
I think the first thing we should do is expel the illegal immigrants so
we have greater resources for the legal welcomed guests and there'd be
reduced crime.


The most fundamental resource, the most valuable, the most scarce
resource is the human resource.

The USA is running out of white people. It has always needed outside
blood (first the african slaves, now the mexicans who are quasi-slaves)
in order to grow and keep its standard of living.

-Ramon


Well, my ancestors fought against slavery in our Civil War. And I
certainly don't want mexicans to be quasi-slaves. That's why I want
all illegal mexicans out of this country immediately. I want you to go
back to your country and live as mexicans. Because I don't want them
to be quasi-slaves. I believe American business should hire real
American citizens and pay a real American wages.

Sound fair?


No. Not the way YOU put it.

It sounds very fair to me. As a descendant of northern-States
German-Americans, many of whom arrived in this hemisphere as "serves"
(indentured servants), I share my ancestors' disdain of both indentured
servitude and outright slavery.

It's funny, my dad's side of the family managed to settle Kansas without
either slaves or servants and they certainly didn't need illegal aliens
to help them be "sodbusters" and farmers in the brutal weather of
Kansas. Hell, they even had time left over to organize Abolition groups.
And along with the rest of the northern German-Americans, they as a part
of the group did liberate the slaves at the point of their bayonets.
This is a matter of history and not disputed.

I think it's not just extremely fair, I think it's right, that we
eliminate trafficking in human cargo. First and foremost, never hire
anyone who can't prove they are eligible to work in the country. If they
can't make money to pay off their procurers and pimps, nobody will loan
them the money to illegally be transported from their homeland to our
homeland.

A shortage of exploitable indentured servants will tend to increase
employment among our own underskilled workers.


--
http://thomashardman.com/ Centrist, Moderate, Republican in Maryland
A true Conservative isn't about to let
the enemies of America ruin his streams for Trout.

Ramon F Herrera wrote:
wrote:
Ramon F Herrera wrote:
SwampMidget wrote:
That's a shame. We should be more welcoming to guests of our country.
I think the first thing we should do is expel the illegal immigrants so
we have greater resources for the legal welcomed guests and there'd be
reduced crime.

The most fundamental resource, the most valuable, the most scarce
resource is the human resource.

The USA is running out of white people. It has always needed outside
blood (first the african slaves, now the mexicans who are quasi-slaves)
in order to grow and keep its standard of living.

-Ramon

The U.S. is running out of white people? Please provide proof of
this.

I can provide from 11 to 12 million proofs. If they weren't needed,
they wouldn't be here. That's the way the invisible hand of the economy
works. That's the reason for the USA -as a country- has looked the
other way all these years.

We are near a status that economists call full-employment where the
bottle neck, the ability of a country to grow is bound by lack of
labor. For every aborted white baby, a mexican jumps the fence. The
invisible hand is almost perfect.

Having said that...

No, I am not for the current status to continue forever. There are too
many people from the same country. We need a high tech border. But the
ones who made it, work hard, pay old taxes + penalties, and learn
English, etc, are here to stay.

-Ramon

Illegal aliens jumping our borders is not proof of a white race
shortage nor a worker shortage. They come here "hoping" to find a
job. They are not invited nor is there a "white" worker shortage.
We have been all over this hundreds of times. The employers just hire
them for cheaper wages and screw Americans out of a fair rate of pay
and that puts them out of work. Our government has looked the other
way not because we have a worker shortage but because they are being
paid off by their corporate buddies for the cheap foreign labor. If
there truly were a worker shortage then our government would raise the
quotas for guest workers or immigrants. Why does that logic escape
you?

Calif Bill wrote:
"sechumlib" wrote in message
news:2006112112401550073-sechumlib@liberalnet...

On 2006-11-21 10:24:48 -0500, "SwampMidget" said:


Ramon F Herrera wrote:

SwampMidget wrote:

That's a shame. We should be more welcoming to guests of our country.
I think the first thing we should do is expel the illegal immigrants so
we have greater resources for the legal welcomed guests and there'd be
reduced crime.

The most fundamental resource, the most valuable, the most scarce
resource is the human resource.

The USA is running out of white people. It has always needed outside
blood (first the african slaves, now the mexicans who are quasi-slaves)
in order to grow and keep its standard of living.

-Ramon

Well, my ancestors fought against slavery in our Civil War. And I
certainly don't want mexicans to be quasi-slaves. That's why I want
all illegal mexicans out of this country immediately. I want you to go
back to your country and live as mexicans. Because I don't want them
to be quasi-slaves. I believe American business should hire real
American citizens and pay a real American wages.

Sound fair?

No. Not the way YOU put it.



Seems as if slavery was not limited to the Americas. England was a major
slave trader, research Brummagem ware. England did not abolish slavery
until 1833. And lots of Englishmen owned slaves. The West Indies were
mostly English owned. The French allowed slavery in Canada, but not France
itself. When Britain took over Canada, they still allowed slavery. Slavery
was banned way before these times in lots of the American colonies and then
states. The Emancipation Proclamation was only 33 years after England
banned slavery. Slavery was on the way out in the states except Eli
Whitney, inventor of the steam boat, also invented the Cotton Gin. Which
made Cotton farming with slaves very profitable. Only 26% of the residents
Southern states owned slaves. And my Great Grandfather limped the rest of
his life from a Confederate musket ball to his leg. Being he was a Yankee
from Ohio. Slavery was terrible, but do not let your European sensibilities
ignore your slavery and part in the trade.

Mostly we can agree with this sentiment, but you should better check
your facts on the sequence of events with respect to Eli Whitney. His
fame does not include inventing the steamboat, that was Thomas Fulton,
IIRC. Whitney's main claim to fame isn't even the cotton-gin, but
interchangeable machine parts, which laid the way for the invention of
the modern production-line system of manufacture, by Henry Ford.

Until Whitney invented the cotton gin, cotton was barely profitable and
slavery generally was not multigenerational and indeed most slaves until
a certain point were able to buy their own freedom. As "king cotton"
became an immense economic system, slaves became chattel rather than
bonded; the status became hereditary and race-based.

For those who are interested, fascinating insights can be gained by
examining the positions of various church heirarchies in the pre-war
USA, regarding slavery. In particular the positions of the Anabaptist
churches and the Quaker brethren will illuminate ethnic-based opposition
to the enslavement of other ethnics. Also interesting, an argument can
be made that the immense wave of immigration from the Germanies fed the
Abolitionist movement, simply because most of the German immigrants of
that time were skilled workers in certain trades which were also often
pursued by slaves not worked as field hands. By seeing the slaves let
free to practice their trades, the Germans would have seen their wages
decline, but at least they would share the work equally, rather than
being denied the opportunity to work when all of the work was given to
slaves in economies internal to the plantations, rather than bid on the
free market. While not entirely exact, many parellels can be seen with
the current situation in the States.





--
http://thomashardman.com/ Centrist, Moderate, Republican in Maryland
A true Conservative isn't about to let
the enemies of America ruin his streams for Trout.

Dave Frightens Me wrote:
On 21 Nov 2006 07:24:48 -0800, "SwampMidget"
wrote:


Ramon F Herrera wrote:

SwampMidget wrote:

That's a shame. We should be more welcoming to guests of our country.
I think the first thing we should do is expel the illegal immigrants so
we have greater resources for the legal welcomed guests and there'd be
reduced crime.

The most fundamental resource, the most valuable, the most scarce
resource is the human resource.

The USA is running out of white people. It has always needed outside
blood (first the african slaves, now the mexicans who are quasi-slaves)
in order to grow and keep its standard of living.

-Ramon

Well, my ancestors fought against slavery in our Civil War. And I
certainly don't want mexicans to be quasi-slaves. That's why I want
all illegal mexicans out of this country immediately. I want you to go
back to your country and live as mexicans. Because I don't want them
to be quasi-slaves. I believe American business should hire real
American citizens and pay a real American wages.

Sound fair?


Sounds racist to me, not to mention completely naive.

Racist? How so?


--
http://thomashardman.com/ Centrist, Moderate, Republican in Maryland
A true Conservative isn't about to let
the enemies of America ruin his streams for Trout.

Ramon F Herrera wrote:
wrote:

Ramon F Herrera wrote:

SwampMidget wrote:

That's a shame. We should be more welcoming to guests of our country.
I think the first thing we should do is expel the illegal immigrants so
we have greater resources for the legal welcomed guests and there'd be
reduced crime.

The most fundamental resource, the most valuable, the most scarce
resource is the human resource.

The USA is running out of white people. It has always needed outside
blood (first the african slaves, now the mexicans who are quasi-slaves)
in order to grow and keep its standard of living.

-Ramon

The U.S. is running out of white people? Please provide proof of
this.

I can provide from 11 to 12 million proofs. If they weren't needed,
they wouldn't be here. That's the way the invisible hand of the economy
works. That's the reason for the USA -as a country- has looked the
other way all these years.

We are near a status that economists call full-employment where the
bottle neck, the ability of a country to grow is bound by lack of
labor.

For most mature companies, there's no need to grow. All they have to do
is to serve their consistent customers with consistent products.
Steady-state is perfectly supportable.

For every aborted white baby, a mexican jumps the fence. The
invisible hand is almost perfect.

Having said that...

No, I am not for the current status to continue forever. There are too
many people from the same country. We need a high tech border. But the
ones who made it, work hard, pay old taxes + penalties, and learn
English, etc, are here to stay.

Not if we can help it, that would be rewarding lawbreakers.



--
http://thomashardman.com/ Centrist, Moderate, Republican in Maryland
A true Conservative isn't about to let
the enemies of America ruin his streams for Trout.

SMS wrote:
Ramon F Herrera wrote:

This is probably great news to those who are for negative economic
growth (population stabilization (*), they call it), as all those pesky
tourists and businessmen avoid USA travel.

http://today.reuters.com/news/articl...1_%5BFeed%5D-5


-Ramon

(*) code work for: "I don't like those brown people around here"


It's a big problem that so few Europeans are visiting the U.S.. I know a
woman who runs an AYH hostel, that's been operating for about 25 years.
They may have to close because so few young Europeans are able to visit
the U.S. due to all the hassles. They track the number of booked beds,
and it's fallen drastically from a peak in around 2000. European young
people would now rather go to Asia for vacation, then have to deal with
the issues with visiting the U.S.

Feel free to blame the illegal aliens; we're trying to make it very
difficult for them to prosper here. Unfortunately, the government can't
seem to quite understand that this means it absolutely must go after the
people who are here illegally and operate without documentation or legal
compliance, rather than harassing people who are trying to legally visit
on vacation.


--
http://thomashardman.com/ Centrist, Moderate, Republican in Maryland
A true Conservative isn't about to let
the enemies of America ruin his streams for Trout.

On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 09:57:49 -0500, T Jr Hardman
wrote:

Dave Frightens Me wrote:
On 21 Nov 2006 07:24:48 -0800, "SwampMidget"
wrote:

Well, my ancestors fought against slavery in our Civil War. And I
certainly don't want mexicans to be quasi-slaves. That's why I want
all illegal mexicans out of this country immediately. I want you to go
back to your country and live as mexicans. Because I don't want them
to be quasi-slaves. I believe American business should hire real
American citizens and pay a real American wages.

Sound fair?


Sounds racist to me, not to mention completely naive.

Racist? How so?

Sounds like he doesn't like them wetbacks.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

On 2006-11-22 09:30:01 -0500, Bert Hyman said:

Most unfriendly? Could you contrast the US procedures with, let's
say, North Korea?

Do you know of any substantial number of people who want to move to
North Korea, when it can't feed its own unfortunates?

(sechumlib) wrote in
news:2006112212311575249-sechumlib@liberalnet:

On 2006-11-22 09:30:01 -0500, Bert Hyman said:

Most unfriendly? Could you contrast the US procedures with, let's
say, North Korea?

Do you know of any substantial number of people who want to move to
North Korea, when it can't feed its own unfortunates?

That's not the point of the thread, is it?

--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN |