How do I avoid looking and acting American while traveling in Europe?

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:32:32 +0100, The Reids
wrote:

Following up to Gunner

Btw..the largest mass killing in the US before the bombing of the
Oklahoma Federal Building was accomplished with a single gallon of
gasoline.

which has nothing to do with the issue of gun control.

But you have stated that gun control is striclty for crime control and
to prevent harm to others. So it has a strict correllary.

how many times do you need telling before you understand?

When you state something truthful for a change..I might understand.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell

Gunner wrote:
Miguel Cruz wrote:
Tim Kroesen wrote:
Sincerely Miguel; Your side is the one 'ranting' and throwing around
bull**** here. Gunner provides stats and links

He's provided links to propaganda sites and citations of surveys of how many
people feel that their guns saved them from certain doom. That ain't facts.
The absence of (and more importantly, lack of comprehension of the nature
of) facts, combined with his incredibly childish style, is why I gave up
going back and forth with him.

The United States Government Department is a Propaganda site? The
huge number of world renowned and peer reviewed research sites
including that of Harvard, are propaganda sites? Really.

Note my use of the word "and". The sources you mention above carry the
surveys about how people feel about their guns. The semantic effect of "and"
does not require them to also be propaganda sites.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:32:28 +0100, The Reids
wrote:

No they are not designed to kill. They may be used as such, or not as
the user decides, but no..they are simply designed to move a
projectile from A to an unspecified B.

more weasel words, but you have already inadvertently admitted
otherwise in an earlier post.

If guns were designed to kill, then why are some of them so
ineffective at actual killing in general?

The only reason that they are effective at stopping criminal
aggression is that the criminals are pussies and don't want to get
shot because it hurts - not because it's always fatal.


--

Map Of The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy:
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

"The men of Normandy had faith that what they were doing was right, faith
that they fought for all humanity, faith that a just God would grant them
mercy on this beachhead or the next. It was the deep knowledge -- and pray
God we have not lost it -- that there is a profound moral difference between
the use of force for liberation and the use of force for conquest."
--Ronald Reagan

Gunner wrote:

snip

I'm not interested in debating guns with you, because the fact is, I
know they're not a good thing to have in the hands of joe bloggs,
whatever you may say. So don't bother discussing this, I do however want
to comment on:

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell

Democracy is hearings everyone's voice, weapons on the other hand, have
through-out history been used to enforce beliefs on others and surpress
those that think differently. No matter how much respect I have for
George Orwell; just cos you can write a good book or many doesn't mean
you're not prone to ****-wit tendencies. It's certainly an alien concept
outside the gun-nuts in the us to group guns with democracy, but then we
foreigners do find the american idea of democracy rather disturbing.

Maybe George Orwell was making an analogy that the working class had the
same power as the rich, who would of previously controlled the firearms?

Dan

"Anubis" wrote in message
...
[...]

The only reason that they are effective at stopping criminal
aggression is that the criminals are pussies and don't want to get
shot because it hurts - not because it's always fatal.

That's all very well, except that guns are not effective at stopping
criminal aggression, criminal 'pussies' are far more likely to arm
themselves if they feel they are likely to be shot at, getting shot does a
lot more than just 'hurt' someone, and there's a bloody good chance that
shooting at someone will be fatal. People like you are really scary. Why
anyone would give you a gun is beyond me.

-------
Falcon:
fide, sed cui vide. (L)
"What will History say?"
"History, sir, will tell lies as usual."

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:32:31 +0100, The Reids wrote:

There are many reasons for rises in crime. One of the problems UK
has is guns coming into criminal hands imported from places where
they are much easier to get.

And guns coming into criminal hands that are illegally manufactured in
the UK.

--
At first glance, it may seem odd or even perverse to suggest that
statutory controls on the private ownership of firearms are irrelevant to
the problem of armed crime; yet that is precisely what the evidence shows.

Armed crime and violent crime generally are products of ethnic and social
factors unrelated to the availability of a particular type of weapon,
and the number of firearms required to satisfy the crime market is small.
Experience shows that these weapons are supplied no matter what controls
are instituted and in place at any given time."
- Colin Greenwood

Following up to Falcon

Funnily enough, the only bit of Tenerifé I've really seen is the road
between Reina Sofia and Christianos harbour. We always head for the first
boat off the island virtually as soon as we land, and when we're finished we
head back for the plane home. We've promised ourselves Teide some day,

"http://www.fell-walker.co.uk/page66.htm"

but for now we're in love with the comparatively tourist-free western islands.
La Palma is pretty challenging with peaks up to about 7,000.

Yes, the rim of the caldera is impressive, also the "inside"
route. On the whole the tourist free islands are better, we love
the SW coast of Fuerteventura.

I've never heard of the Thames Path. I'll take a look.

"http://www.fellwalk.co.uk/thamespath.htm"
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Wasdale-Lake district-Thames path-London "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Following up to Miguel Cruz

On one level I look at target shooting as just another sport and
weigh the justification of having guns around for it against the
risk that involves

I used to live in New South Wales, Australia. As I recall, the rule there
was that you could have all the guns you wanted for target shooting; you
just had to leave them locked up at the range when you left.

that is certainly an improvement on the UK situation where they
are "secured" at home (at least they were when I still knew a gun
owner). Although the owners are vetted, nutters do get through.
IIRC the Dunblane shooting was by a gun-nut who, reports at the
time suggested, should have been spotted? My friend often had a
rifle in the boot of his car when on the way to the range. I
remember he used to show off with it a bit until the wrong person
saw him and sparked an incident of the "armed police....."
variety, I would have loved to have seen his face.:-) As he also
collected Nazi memorabilia i'm not sure I would have given him a
license!
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Wasdale-Lake district-Thames path-London "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Following up to Miguel Cruz

...with one of their ranks holding your hand 24/7. Take some
common-sense responsibility for your own security and the security of
those around you.

Evidently whatever measures I've relied upon have served me well so far. I'm
no less alive than you.

56 years, mostly in London and no need for a gun, ever.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Wasdale-Lake district-Thames path-London "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Following up to pyotr filipivich

"Argument is a series of statements intended to
establish a proposition. It is not the automatic gainsaying of what the
other person just said."

I agree. But if you cant even get someone to accept a gun is a
weapon, primarily designed to kill or maim, you're not likely to
get a productive debate.

And as you may have noticed I have given up on "Gunner".
--
Mike Reid
I do like a good row, I must get a boat.
"http://www.fellwalk.co.uk"