Britain turning on US- at its own peril

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:


FiveTwoAlphaOne wrote:



Tim C. wrote:

Following up to FiveTwoAlphaOne MikeOscarPapa.org :


You state that they're anti-semitic for what? Criticising
Israel?




"If you're not with us, you're against us" seems to be the Fox News
watchers' motto.



I think that it's clear now that the 'us' in 'us' is somewhat
fractured and now refers to less than 30% of the US population.
The Neocons will no doubt see themselves as a victimized
minority after November 7.


Long may THAT state of affairs continue!

Indeed. I only wodner how long, if at all, it will
take the Dems to overturn the most egregious contitutional infringments
of the Neocons once they come into power.

I mean, can we expect to see Gitmo demolshed?
Warrantless wiretapping made illegal and enforced?
Secret prisons?

--
MikeOscarPapa
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Go to http://www.opensecrets.org - check your zip code
or enter the name of your politician - (Who's my rep?)
Click the links to the politicians - then click the Geographic
Total to the left to see where their campaign money comes from.
If they get more money from outside of your state how are they
accountable to YOU? Vote for candidates supported by majority donations
from their own people in their own state instead!

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:



FiveTwoAlphaOne wrote:



John Rennie wrote:

Extract from the Guardian;

" Melanie Phillips in the Mail, April 14 2003: "At every stage of the
war, these armchair appeasers predicted disaster; at every stage,
they were proved wrong. Now, with military victory almost complete
..." Melanie Phillips in the Mail, Monday: "Creating Iraqi democracy
... was always going to involve a long and hard war." Indeed."



You mean it wasn't about oil and destabilizing the region to
Israel's benefit?


It may have been, but do you REALLY think Bush had the intellect to
forsee it?

I think he's just a front guy for the corporations and money
men. Cheney does most of the thinking there, while he
does most of the talking.

--
MikeOscarPapa
Are entities outside of your state BUYING your candidates?
Go to http://www.opensecrets.org - check your zip code
or enter the name of your politician - (Who's my rep?)
Click the links to the politicians - then click the Geographic
Total to the left to see where their campaign money comes from.
If they get more money from outside of your state how are they
accountable to YOU? Vote for candidates supported by majority donations
from their own people in their own state instead!

FiveTwoAlphaOne wrote:
John Rennie wrote:
Extract from the Guardian;

" Melanie Phillips in the Mail, April 14 2003: "At every stage of
the war, these armchair appeasers predicted disaster; at every
stage, they were proved wrong. Now, with military victory almost
complete ..." Melanie Phillips in the Mail, Monday: "Creating Iraqi
democracy ... was always going to involve a long and hard war."
Indeed."

You mean it wasn't about oil and destabilizing the region to
Israel's benefit?

No, no, no you silly person it was about WMDs.

No, I mean regime change.

No not that either, I mean bringing democracy to the Middle East.

No wait a minute, it was about stopping al-Qaeda wasn't it? Yes that's
right. I've got it now. Or I've got it at least for this week.

FiveTwoAlphaOne wrote:
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:



FiveTwoAlphaOne wrote:



John Rennie wrote:

Extract from the Guardian;

" Melanie Phillips in the Mail, April 14 2003: "At every stage of
the war, these armchair appeasers predicted disaster; at every
stage, they were proved wrong. Now, with military victory almost
complete ..." Melanie Phillips in the Mail, Monday: "Creating
Iraqi democracy ... was always going to involve a long and hard
war." Indeed."



You mean it wasn't about oil and destabilizing the region to
Israel's benefit?


It may have been, but do you REALLY think Bush had the intellect to
forsee it?

I think he's just a front guy for the corporations and money
men. Cheney does most of the thinking there, while he
does most of the talking.

Yep, I agree. Bush is no intellect, I think even he accepts that, he's
just the representative, the smiling, simple Pres who gave up the Demon
Drink.

Behind him you've got/had Cheney, Rumsfeld, Karl Rove and a whole
collection of other arseholes with strong connections to either oil or
Israel, occasionally both. I think you'd have to be pretty blind or
stubborn to ignore that but plenty of people seem to have done so,
especially in the USA, though it seems the wind has changed direction of
late.

The Reid wrote:
On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 14:23:46 +0100, Padraig Breathnach
wrote:

Or is it just simple trolling?

It's Peej who posted it. He's not really a troll, in that he is not
teasing or baiting us. He really believes the stuff.

I get that impression.

Judge for yourself whether you should take him seriously.

I understand 20% of Americans still think the war is going OK.

I believe a similar percentage thinks that Elvis is on the spaceship.

The Reid wrote:
On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 14:23:46 +0100, Padraig Breathnach
wrote:

Or is it just simple trolling?

It's Peej who posted it. He's not really a troll, in that he is not
teasing or baiting us. He really believes the stuff.

I get that impression.

Judge for yourself whether you should take him seriously.

I understand 20% of Americans still think the war is going OK.

I reckon they know that all they have to do is cause continuing
casualties and US will eventually pull out.

I wonder how much of the current violence is really directly anti
'coalition'. I think it likely to be more jostling among the natives for
their future place.

It s quite evident that this illegal, immoral and unnecessary war has
been a complete and utter failure as the very great majority of the
people and countries of the world said it would be. Now the only
question is how to leave the Iraqis to it and get out with a semblance
of dignity. Of course it is the latter point that imports most for these
****wit politicians full of themselves, all seeking a Place in History.
They don't give a flying **** for the families of the hundreds of
thousands of Iraqis who have died as a result of their stupidity.

May Bush and Blair rot in Hell.

In article ,
Padraig Breathnach wrote:

wrote:

PJ O'Donovan wrote:

newspapers such as the
ultra-left Guardian

snip

*PLONK*

You think the Guardian is not ultra-left?

The Grauniad is about as left of centre a newspaper as I've ever
encountered. It most certainly wears its bleeding heart on its sleeve.
I love it.

--
Mr Q. Z. D.
Remove luncheonmeat (truncheon) to reply.
" Everyone's always in favour of saving Hitler's brain.
But when you put it in the body of a great white shark,
ooohh! Suddenly you've gone too far!"

The Reid wrote:
On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 09:53:52 -0400, FiveTwoAlphaOne
MikeOscarPapa.org wrote:

Only an idiot would have allowed an entire undefeated army to walk
home without clear knowledge that the insurgency that EVERYONE
including Saddam predicted, would happen.

clearly they should have kept the systems in place and not bombed to
infrastructure to hell, it would have been a harder war but they might
not have ensured losing. "Shock and Awe" "shock and or" what? Sensible
planning?
Remember that dimwit Bush declaring victory on the aircraft carrier?
Did he think they would give up?

I know a few Iraqis, political refugees from Saddam living here in
France. All are fine and interesting people and all are immensely proud
of their country and knowledgeable about its history as the 'cradle of
civilisation'.
My first history (and everything else) teacher at the age of five or so,
began her forming of the very young minds in her charge with
Mesopotamia,from where our Western culture more or less started. I have
been interested since and can appreciate the pride of my Iraqi friends.
From what they tell me and from what I have discovered myself there was
never the slightest chance that they would accept the imposition of
foreign rules, few countries would in fact. Resistance was inevitable
whatever form it took, be it completely ignoring the new laws and
carrying on as before between friends, or armed as it has become. It's a
question of national honour, just like the resistance in France or
anywhere else. To expect otherwise as the politicians and militarists
pretended was to show that one was a fool, a liar or knew nothing about
the situation at all. Perhaps all three.

Only idiots would have thought that they could invade
countries like Afghnistan and Iraq on the cheap.

the lessons of history not learnt

You said it brother.

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:
The Reid wrote:


I had expected to see no more of these posts (I notice "fromage" was
mentioned in one part of the anti europe rant) now that Iraq is near
the point of disaster. Does this mean there are still americans who
think "shock and awe" worked? Or is it just simple trolling?

I'm afraid there ARE still many fools here who believe it!
the U.S. education system is rather lax when it comes to
instilling logical reasoning. (Although it requires a
certain measure of intelligence to distinguish between logic
and illogic, it's largely a skill, and CAN be taught.)

I'm not sure it is question of logical reasoning, a few simple geography
and history lessons woulddo them the power of good.

wrote:
PJ O'Donovan wrote:

newspapers such as the
ultra-left Guardian

snip

*PLONK*

A bit harsh don't you think? I mean he didn't actually call it
Marxist-Leninist ;-)