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On 27 Jun 2007, HUMMINGBIRD wrote:

You may recall that the comments you refer to were in response to
Franklin who asserted indirectly that there was only one holocaust,
- 'The Holocaust' - even though the OP in that debate used the term
"a holocaust" and I asked the OP which he was referring to. A
reasonable question you might think.


Hello Hummingbird

This isn't difficult stuff but I can see you want to make a full sized
meal of it.

I pointed out that although "Holocaust" is a word which can be used as
simile for a number of conflagrations and in particular those in which
human bodies were burned in large numbers, that western culture
immediately recognises a mention of "Holocaust" as referring to the mass
killings under Hitler as a first interpretation of the word.

One of the problems you face in giving this another interpretation is
that the word may or may not be capitalized as a proper noun. As a
capitalized word you would have no difficulty in understanding the
reference. (On second thoughts, maybe you would have difficulty because
your aim is to argue then to accept honest ideas.) By convention, email
and Usenet posts very often *omit* capitals and that is where your
presumptions have let you down. You did not check why the original post
by »Q« was left uncapitalized.



Franklin popped up (as he does) and posted a link to a Zionist
website to support his claim (oh!) and when he got out of his depth
deviously set the follow-up of the thread to several Zionist
infested newsgroups without any mention of it in his post. A dirty
trick or what?


I gave a link to a website (which you may or may not have approved of)
where the use of the word "Holocaust" was illustrated. I also told you
this was off-topic for this group and said I had set the follow-up to a
group in which this sort of thing was usually discussed.

Below is what I posted. One problem is becming evident and that is that
you appear to belong to a group which is sometimes called "Holocaust
Deniers" and for this reason you have found the examples I have given
have triggered off a knee-jerk reaction.

Furthermore it is becomeing clearer how the phrase "moral superiority"
(which is what gave rise to all this ~ remember?) is actually a
description of your general attitude and that will have irked you. I
guess this is a hot button for you. Some will press it now you have
told them and others, like me, will offer you a more normal
interpretation of meaning.


================= START OF QUOTATION ======================
"Holocaust" refers to the extensive killing of Jews and other people by
Nazi Germany.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/.../36quest1.html

A small minority do not agree that the holocaust was anything like
depicted in typical history books and some of these people are opposed
to the very notion that the holocaust ever took place at all.

Their opponents accuse them of having low or no morals as they appear to
seek to deliberately upset Jews by saying the Jews never suffered in
Nazi Germany as much as is claimed. Some of these opponents claim a
"moral obligation" to fight the ideas about the holocaust which this
minority put forward. Others use the idea of "moral certainty".
http://www.fpp.co.uk/Letters/trial/Marques260400.html

Many of the anti-holocaust people reply to this by arguing their case
with a high moral tone which they make appear as greater than that of
their detractors.

And so we come to what was posted he "... assuming the moral
authority of one opposing a holocaust"

As I said earlier, this makes a simple reference to qualify a certain
degree of "moral authority".

That's all there is to it. If you are not familiar with this then next
time then you could always try Google.
================= END OF QUOTATION ======================



Anybody who studies history will know that a number of holocausts
have occurred in 20c history as I pointed out to him. It is Zionist
Jews who hijacked the term after WWII as pointed out by Finkelstein
(himself a Jew) in his excellent book 'The Holocaust Industry'.



What you claim may be true and it may therefore be the reason why
Holocaust is so well known as referring to the Hitler period. Holocaust
may have less than elegant etymological foundations but we are not here
to change that. The point is about what has become accepted usage.

We have been through all this: I have once already said Which is a good
example of you trying to swerve the discussion into a hate debate about
Nazi Germany's Holocaust. How does your reference add to the discussion
in which you had a plroblem understanding a phrase that used the word
"holocaust"? Answer: nothing at all. It is just a troll for a racist
uproar in here. And I refused to bite on that one.

But as I pointed out, it is widely accepted that "holocaust" refers to
what the Nazi Germans did.





Hummingbird's views on Jews, Israel, Judaism, Zionism, etc
are below and are not for me to comment on.

========= now follows Hummingbird's personal views ==========
Then of course there's JAZ who have their own views about Zionism.

They're all Jews doncha know and I respect them for speaking out,
but they've all been labelled 'self-hating' Jews. No surprise
there.

While we're at it, the excellent report last year about Jewish
Lobby influence in American politics/media (investigated and
written by two Jews) caused them to be labelled 'self-hating' jews
by the Zionists who devote their lives attacking anyone who dares
to speak out. This shouldn't surprise us because Ashkenazi Jews
have a long history of association with Bolshevism and Trotskyism
etc ...Levi Strauss & Co and the current day Neocons inside the
Beltway - Wolfowitz is a Strauss disciple.

But don't let the truth get in your way raincoatman, Franklin
doesn't.

Like many people of his ilk and many uninformed Americans, anybody
who dares to even mention Zionism, Israel or Jews in the slightest
critical way is immediately labelled 'anti-semitic' or a
'self-hating' Jew. It took Franklin about 4 hours to do that
before.

This is the problem in the US where so much of the media is owned
and run by those who wish to portray a false picture of history and
it's output amounts to little more than brainwashing of the masses.

Victors always get to write the history...and the Zionists have had
65 years to write, re-write and refine WWII. As for Hitler - I
wouldn't spit on his grave if he had one.

My quest is for liberty and freedom of the individual, nothing
else, but I'm afraid that often means challenging the status quo
which often makes it uncomfortable for the brainwashed mass sheep.
========== end of Hummingbird's personal views =============

All this remains off topic in ACF and off topic in your other current
newsgroups like rec.travel.air and uk.finance. However as you are
essentially baiting for replies then I will offer you the oxygen of
wider publicity.