Are Cruise deals over?

"*bicker*" wrote in message
. ..
A Sat, 14 Aug 2004 14:35:19 GMT, "Tom & Linda"
escribió:
Only the members of the public who benefited from the old
system. The members of the public who benefit from the new
system will be among the winners.
Your comments seem to indicate that you actually don't know much about
how
the old system worked. Otherwise you wouldn't say what you did.

You're mistaken.

I believe your arrogance makes you say what you did.



Then explain the difference between the old system and the new system, and
let me know who (in terms of customers) will benefit from the new system.

--Tom

On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 15:19:58 GMT, "Georgeny"
wrote:

Tom,

If I am correct it will matter not how you pay, it's the handling on the
TA's side that has changed.

Using simple numbers not necessarily correct

Previous policy - cruise line price for cruise in example 1200 pp x 2 = 2400

Of that say 300 is TA commission

TA rebates you 150

You make payment to TA of 2250

TA sends cruiseline 2100 deal complete.

TA sends in 2400 and waits until you get back to get paid the
commission.


NEW policy:

TA must send in to cruiseline 2400

Cruiseline ( after completion of cruise date I believe ) sends TA 300
commission check.

So TA to rebate you the 150 must either FRONT that 150 from their own monies
and then recover it from cruiseline later within the commission and accept
only 2250 from you OR they would have to have you pay total 2400 and then
rebate to you after they get their commission check therefore you are out
the 150 until TA rebates ot to you later.

So the main policy difference is that the cruise line is requiring total
cruise cost monies including commissions be paid directly to them instead of
just merely their amount. This does several things, create a cash flow
situation on TA, and provide end of year tax accounting on commissions
directly to IRS for TA. So the 300 commission will be reported by cruiseline
to IRS even though TA only actually received 150. They would therefore have
the 150 they never saw taxed or have to expense against the commissions
reported. Additional paperwork in both tax and accounting areas and so
forth. So it matters not how much or what way you pay, TA must pay entire
amount then get it back later.

Any TA's out there care to correct me? This is my understanding of the
impact both to TA's and customers.

Now what does it do for cruise line. First even if TA's continue to rebate
they have a nice cashflow increase and have added a nice lag time for
themselves holding either your money or the TA's money. Made a greater
incentive for online booking directly with them and giving them better
control over pricing. Started the path to eliminating TA distribution as a
main distribution system again giving them far more direct control of
pricing and cost.

George in NY




"Tom & Linda" wrote in message
.net...

Perhaps in the future, TA's will be asking for more final payments to be
done by personal check. Or even cash.

And perhaps when you choose to use a credit card, agencies will make the
charge against your credit card to themselves and later do electronic
transfer of the final payment funds to the cruise line. Plus... this has
the added protection of NOT providing your credit card info to the cruise
lines.

By keeping payments internally within the agencies, they'll most likely be
able to track payments MUCH MORE CAREFULLY, to ensure that no rebating
occurs behind the scenes. Which will, of course, be their first priority
when dealing with RCI/Celebrity.

--Tom





--
dillon

When I was a kid, I thought the angel's name was Hark
and the horse's name was Bob.

On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 15:19:58 GMT, "Georgeny"
wrote:

Tom,

If I am correct it will matter not how you pay, it's the handling on the
TA's side that has changed.

Using simple numbers not necessarily correct

Previous policy - cruise line price for cruise in example 1200 pp x 2 = 2400

Of that say 300 is TA commission

TA rebates you 150

You make payment to TA of 2250

TA sends cruiseline 2100 deal complete.

TA sends in 2400 and waits until you get back to get paid the
commission.


NEW policy:

TA must send in to cruiseline 2400

Cruiseline ( after completion of cruise date I believe ) sends TA 300
commission check.

So TA to rebate you the 150 must either FRONT that 150 from their own monies
and then recover it from cruiseline later within the commission and accept
only 2250 from you OR they would have to have you pay total 2400 and then
rebate to you after they get their commission check therefore you are out
the 150 until TA rebates ot to you later.

So the main policy difference is that the cruise line is requiring total
cruise cost monies including commissions be paid directly to them instead of
just merely their amount. This does several things, create a cash flow
situation on TA, and provide end of year tax accounting on commissions
directly to IRS for TA. So the 300 commission will be reported by cruiseline
to IRS even though TA only actually received 150. They would therefore have
the 150 they never saw taxed or have to expense against the commissions
reported. Additional paperwork in both tax and accounting areas and so
forth. So it matters not how much or what way you pay, TA must pay entire
amount then get it back later.

Any TA's out there care to correct me? This is my understanding of the
impact both to TA's and customers.

Now what does it do for cruise line. First even if TA's continue to rebate
they have a nice cashflow increase and have added a nice lag time for
themselves holding either your money or the TA's money. Made a greater
incentive for online booking directly with them and giving them better
control over pricing. Started the path to eliminating TA distribution as a
main distribution system again giving them far more direct control of
pricing and cost.

George in NY




"Tom & Linda" wrote in message
.net...

Perhaps in the future, TA's will be asking for more final payments to be
done by personal check. Or even cash.

And perhaps when you choose to use a credit card, agencies will make the
charge against your credit card to themselves and later do electronic
transfer of the final payment funds to the cruise line. Plus... this has
the added protection of NOT providing your credit card info to the cruise
lines.

By keeping payments internally within the agencies, they'll most likely be
able to track payments MUCH MORE CAREFULLY, to ensure that no rebating
occurs behind the scenes. Which will, of course, be their first priority
when dealing with RCI/Celebrity.

--Tom





--
dillon

When I was a kid, I thought the angel's name was Hark
and the horse's name was Bob.

The lure of the good deal should live on...it would seem
that the cruise line should pay more for it...and let the
the travel agent make a decent living (by earning a
commission not totally depleted by a discount).

Peter

Jeff Coudriet wrote:
That is precisely what has been filling cabins....the lure of a good deal.

Lloyd Parsons wrote:

Of course, they are not thinking that the discounts were part of what
filled those cabins. And as Mason has said, there are other vacations
out there and cruising is not as unique in many ways as it used to be.



--
Peter Berlin
Peter Berlin's Travel Center http://peterberlin.com
The Great Luxury Cruise http://peterberlin.com/groups/glc2005/
The Great Group Cruise 2005 http://ggc2005.com "We've Got
The Spirit"
Join us on the Millennium and Spirit Bash...Oct. 31 and Dec.
5, 2004

Thank you Tom & Linda.


Peter

Tom & Linda wrote:

"RTCReferee" wrote in message
...

"Georgeny" wrote:


I have to disagree, there is every reason not to use a TA if the pricing,
due to no commission rebate, is the same. The primary reason is simply
eliminating one layer of possible fraud or payment problems.

This would be the biggest incentive to book direct.



It also eliminates the one person who's looking out for YOUR best
intentions, and not the cruise lines.

My TA's (I use more than 1) tell me the best options for insurance. Would
the cruise line do the same?

My TA's hunt for good hotel prices pre and post cruise. Would the cruise
line do the same?

My TA's track pricing. Do you honestly think the cruise line will monitor
pricing and call you if it drops?

Look at all the stuff that our TA's (Lori, George, Suz, Ray, John, Peter,
etc.) do when they sponsor groups. Do you think Princess will do the same?
Will the cruise lines arrange dinners at Carmines?

Wake up people. Just think of all the stuff your TA's do for you.

--Tom



--
Peter Berlin
Peter Berlin's Travel Center http://peterberlin.com
The Great Luxury Cruise http://peterberlin.com/groups/glc2005/
The Great Group Cruise 2005 http://ggc2005.com "We've Got
The Spirit"
Join us on the Millennium and Spirit Bash...Oct. 31 and Dec.
5, 2004

Thank you Tom & Linda.


Peter

Tom & Linda wrote:

"RTCReferee" wrote in message
...

"Georgeny" wrote:


I have to disagree, there is every reason not to use a TA if the pricing,
due to no commission rebate, is the same. The primary reason is simply
eliminating one layer of possible fraud or payment problems.

This would be the biggest incentive to book direct.



It also eliminates the one person who's looking out for YOUR best
intentions, and not the cruise lines.

My TA's (I use more than 1) tell me the best options for insurance. Would
the cruise line do the same?

My TA's hunt for good hotel prices pre and post cruise. Would the cruise
line do the same?

My TA's track pricing. Do you honestly think the cruise line will monitor
pricing and call you if it drops?

Look at all the stuff that our TA's (Lori, George, Suz, Ray, John, Peter,
etc.) do when they sponsor groups. Do you think Princess will do the same?
Will the cruise lines arrange dinners at Carmines?

Wake up people. Just think of all the stuff your TA's do for you.

--Tom



--
Peter Berlin
Peter Berlin's Travel Center http://peterberlin.com
The Great Luxury Cruise http://peterberlin.com/groups/glc2005/
The Great Group Cruise 2005 http://ggc2005.com "We've Got
The Spirit"
Join us on the Millennium and Spirit Bash...Oct. 31 and Dec.
5, 2004

Thank you Tom & Linda.


Peter

Tom & Linda wrote:

"RTCReferee" wrote in message
...

"Georgeny" wrote:


I have to disagree, there is every reason not to use a TA if the pricing,
due to no commission rebate, is the same. The primary reason is simply
eliminating one layer of possible fraud or payment problems.

This would be the biggest incentive to book direct.



It also eliminates the one person who's looking out for YOUR best
intentions, and not the cruise lines.

My TA's (I use more than 1) tell me the best options for insurance. Would
the cruise line do the same?

My TA's hunt for good hotel prices pre and post cruise. Would the cruise
line do the same?

My TA's track pricing. Do you honestly think the cruise line will monitor
pricing and call you if it drops?

Look at all the stuff that our TA's (Lori, George, Suz, Ray, John, Peter,
etc.) do when they sponsor groups. Do you think Princess will do the same?
Will the cruise lines arrange dinners at Carmines?

Wake up people. Just think of all the stuff your TA's do for you.

--Tom



--
Peter Berlin
Peter Berlin's Travel Center http://peterberlin.com
The Great Luxury Cruise http://peterberlin.com/groups/glc2005/
The Great Group Cruise 2005 http://ggc2005.com "We've Got
The Spirit"
Join us on the Millennium and Spirit Bash...Oct. 31 and Dec.
5, 2004

Chrissy Cruiser wrote:

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 21:16:23 -0400, *bicker* wrote:


A Fri, 13 Aug 2004 00:01:00 GMT, "Bill"
escribió:

Seems to me that, in the final analysis, supply and demand will ultimately
rule.

Wisdom rears its ugly head in r.t.c!

At least this much truth has gotten out.


Supply and demand works in the end, perhaps, perhaps not, but this is a
skewed economic model with the cruise lines in the driver's seat. For now.

Thank you, Chrissy.

Ben S.

Chrissy Cruiser wrote:

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 21:16:23 -0400, *bicker* wrote:


A Fri, 13 Aug 2004 00:01:00 GMT, "Bill"
escribió:

Seems to me that, in the final analysis, supply and demand will ultimately
rule.

Wisdom rears its ugly head in r.t.c!

At least this much truth has gotten out.


Supply and demand works in the end, perhaps, perhaps not, but this is a
skewed economic model with the cruise lines in the driver's seat. For now.

Thank you, Chrissy.

Ben S.

On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 10:04:02 -0400, *bicker* wrote:

Only the members of the public who benefited from the old
system. The members of the public who benefit from the new
system will be among the winners.

What? No way.