Are Cruise deals over?

On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 10:04:02 -0400, *bicker* wrote:

Only the members of the public who benefited from the old
system. The members of the public who benefit from the new
system will be among the winners.

What? No way.

A Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:06:37 -0400, Chrissy Cruiser
escribió:
On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 10:04:02 -0400, *bicker* wrote:
Only the members of the public who benefited from the old
system. The members of the public who benefit from the new
system will be among the winners.
What? No way.

What can I do? Sometimes, some folks can be that obstinate,
Chrissy.


--
bicker®
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/GMA/D...ry_040602.html

A Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:06:37 -0400, Chrissy Cruiser
escribió:
On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 10:04:02 -0400, *bicker* wrote:
Only the members of the public who benefited from the old
system. The members of the public who benefit from the new
system will be among the winners.
What? No way.

What can I do? Sometimes, some folks can be that obstinate,
Chrissy.


--
bicker®
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/GMA/D...ry_040602.html

On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 14:25:25 GMT, "Tom & Linda"
wrote:



"Jeff Coudriet" wrote in message
...
This is a definite problem....and not what I understood the new policy
to be. So there will be no, NO selling of a cruise for less than what
RCCL/X say it should be sold for. My current TA does rebate, so she
would be prohibited from doing this. Hmmmmmm.....I'm rethinking what
lines I'm going to book with now!


Me too.

I already wrote to Celebrity about this.

Told them I might have to take my business and referrals to Princess or HAL.

Next time I cruise it's gonna be Princess or Oceanea I think. Still I
will compare prices, but I don't see how RCL's policies are going to
do anything but bring prices up for people who, like me, shop around
for a good deal.

Wife and I have been wanting to go to Australia and South Africa, but
it looks like we will probably be taking a fly/drive/hotel type
vacation (or maybe a tour for South Africa).


Mason Barge

"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea. If this is tea, please bring me some coffee."
-- Abraham Lincoln

On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 14:25:25 GMT, "Tom & Linda"
wrote:



"Jeff Coudriet" wrote in message
...
This is a definite problem....and not what I understood the new policy
to be. So there will be no, NO selling of a cruise for less than what
RCCL/X say it should be sold for. My current TA does rebate, so she
would be prohibited from doing this. Hmmmmmm.....I'm rethinking what
lines I'm going to book with now!


Me too.

I already wrote to Celebrity about this.

Told them I might have to take my business and referrals to Princess or HAL.

Next time I cruise it's gonna be Princess or Oceanea I think. Still I
will compare prices, but I don't see how RCL's policies are going to
do anything but bring prices up for people who, like me, shop around
for a good deal.

Wife and I have been wanting to go to Australia and South Africa, but
it looks like we will probably be taking a fly/drive/hotel type
vacation (or maybe a tour for South Africa).


Mason Barge

"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea. If this is tea, please bring me some coffee."
-- Abraham Lincoln

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 16:43:26 -0400, *bicker* wrote:

A Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:06:37 -0400, Chrissy Cruiser
escribió:
On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 10:04:02 -0400, *bicker* wrote:
Only the members of the public who benefited from the old
system. The members of the public who benefit from the new
system will be among the winners.
What? No way.

What can I do? Sometimes, some folks can be that obstinate,
Chrissy.

Can't deny the truth in that statement, bicker.

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 16:43:26 -0400, *bicker* wrote:

A Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:06:37 -0400, Chrissy Cruiser
escribió:
On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 10:04:02 -0400, *bicker* wrote:
Only the members of the public who benefited from the old
system. The members of the public who benefit from the new
system will be among the winners.
What? No way.

What can I do? Sometimes, some folks can be that obstinate,
Chrissy.

Can't deny the truth in that statement, bicker.

RTCReferee wrote:
Jeff Coudriet wrote:


That is precisely what has been filling cabins....the lure of a good deal.


Although I hope cruise prices will remain somewhat reasonable, I woud rather
cruise with fellow passengers for whom "the lure of the good deal" is not what
causes them to cruise.

Some of them may be the same passengers who bring on boxes of wine, cartons of
cola, create endless posts about how to smuggle on booze in water bottles or
mouth freshener containers, bemoan dress codes, hog deck chairs, save rows of
seats in the showroom, remove tips in order not to tip at all or to tip less,
let their kids run all over the ship, unsupervised, waste energy, devise ways
to keep balcony doors open while running the air conditioning full blast, etc.
Of course, not all people looking for a good deal do this, but enough do that
we have sometimes felt the worst-behaved citizens—the ones we'd like to
escape for a week or so—have followed us onto the ship. They are so cheap
that the cruise lines have resorted to devising other ways to extract money
from passengers.
Most of the worst "nickel-and-diming" has come about as a result of the
ridiculously low entry prices to board the ship.

We are willing to pay more to have a cruise experience significantly more like
it used to be in the mid to late 1980's, and an important difference in that
cruise experience was the behavior of the passengers, and that the vast
majority of fellow passengers cruised only two to a cabin. There were no "dorm
room" groups of drunken and raucous 18-21-year-olds onboard on any of our early
cruises.

Filling cabins to capacity is NEVER a good thing for the majority of
passengers.

OK, I agree with you. To a point. Not with never a good thing for the
majority of passengers. The business-minded folks will tell you right
away the size of the market determines type of product and changes made
to the product. Filling cabins can be good for pax if it keeps prices
low, for those that agree with this. I don't, you don't, but many do.

Sometimes people want a supermarket. Sometimes they want a small store.
Some people want mostly small, specialty stores, go to the store
expecting a certain style, feel, interaction with store's employees and
customers, and comport themselves accordingly. Some go to 24 hour fast
places like 7/11's--casual, a mini-supermarket having some version of
what is in the supermarket as much as it can. Some don't always want the
same thing. Sometimes they want the supermarket with all of its brands
and choices and casual manner, other times they want something more
specialized. That something more specialized costs a bit more, but not
what is in a specialty, gourmet, boutique type of store.

This is akin to what I feel is at play in the current cruise market.
They've made the ships into supermarkets. Some are A&P type everybody
supermarkets, some you find in somewhat chic communities, like say
Dagistinos (are these in other parts of the country or just New York
City and surrounding areas?). Some middle market, bit chic types of
products, lines like Princess, HAL, Celebrity, have opened themselves up
to the A&P customer. I'm not going to be condescending toward this type
of pax, I'm glad a lot of people can cruise. But, know what it is. It is
cruising for an affordable resort, value, fun, mostly casual behavior
and not the escape and relaxation and somewhat dignified ambiance that
some associate with cruising. And, for those that want a somewhat higher
cost cruising with something of a dignified ambiance can only find it in
parts, and features match, some version of same is on the more casual
supermarket ships. Those that want the older Princess, HAL, and
Celebrity I think can only ask the supercorporations that own them now
for one or two ships in the fleet priced higher than the rest and
operate to *appeal to those that want this type of cruise*. Right now,
these lines are considered in the same group as the A&P ships by most
cruisers and they cruise them for the same reason they cruise others.
They might as well not even be a brand, just fulfill the popular
cruiser's wishes.

Ben S.

A Tue, 17 Aug 2004 22:07:21 GMT, Benjamin Smith
escribió:
RTCReferee wrote:
Most of the worst "nickel-and-diming" has come about as a result of the
ridiculously low entry prices to board the ship.

The low fares have also been responsible for cruises
becoming within the range of affordability for many.

We are willing to pay more to have a cruise experience significantly more like
it used to be in the mid to late 1980's

I have read a lot of messages from people begrudging the
passage of time and the trends within the industry. Many
people are sad about the loss of the past.

Filling cabins to capacity is NEVER a good thing for the majority of
passengers.

That "majority" is changing. The trend is towards
passengers for whom filling cabins to capacity is a good
thing, for the reason Ben mentions:

Filling cabins can be good for pax if it keeps prices low

I can attest to this, as someone who wasn't able to afford
cruising until the fares came down (adjusted for inflation).

I'm not going to be condescending toward this type of pax

And I really do appreciate that. I've exchanged messages
today on CC with some cretins who share your sentiments
regarding the industry's offerings, but don't share your
class and maturity.


--
bicker®
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/GMA/D...ry_040602.html

A Tue, 17 Aug 2004 22:07:21 GMT, Benjamin Smith
escribió:
RTCReferee wrote:
Most of the worst "nickel-and-diming" has come about as a result of the
ridiculously low entry prices to board the ship.

The low fares have also been responsible for cruises
becoming within the range of affordability for many.

We are willing to pay more to have a cruise experience significantly more like
it used to be in the mid to late 1980's

I have read a lot of messages from people begrudging the
passage of time and the trends within the industry. Many
people are sad about the loss of the past.

Filling cabins to capacity is NEVER a good thing for the majority of
passengers.

That "majority" is changing. The trend is towards
passengers for whom filling cabins to capacity is a good
thing, for the reason Ben mentions:

Filling cabins can be good for pax if it keeps prices low

I can attest to this, as someone who wasn't able to afford
cruising until the fares came down (adjusted for inflation).

I'm not going to be condescending toward this type of pax

And I really do appreciate that. I've exchanged messages
today on CC with some cretins who share your sentiments
regarding the industry's offerings, but don't share your
class and maturity.


--
bicker®
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/GMA/D...ry_040602.html