French Defend Their Approach to Terror Threats

The article below essentially matches our own experience
over the last 25 or so years, plus other year living
here prior to that.






French Defend Their Approach to Terror Threats
Noting History of Attacks and Defensive Measures, Experts Dismiss U.S.
Suggestions Security Is Lax

By John Burgess
Washington Post Foreign Service
Sunday, December 28, 2003; Page A24

PARIS, Dec. 27 -- Police cordon off a Paris neighborhood for an elaborate
drill to respond to a mock poison gas attack in a subway station. Terror
suspects are tried by special courts. Six Air France flights are canceled
after U.S. intelligence agencies warn that terrorists might be intending to
board.

From close up, France does not look like a country that takes terrorism
lightly. Officials and security experts here lament that despite strict
measures like these, some Americans believe that French opposition to the
invasion of Iraq and to Israeli policies toward the Palestinians means the
country is soft on terrorism.

The French argue that they have developed one of the world's best security
shields, having seen terror close up many times. A chain of bombings
paralyzed Paris in 1986 and 1995; more recently the al Qaeda network has
targeted French citizens abroad.

"The fact is that France has been fighting Islamic terrorism for a long
time," said Guillaume Parmentier, director of the French Center on the
United States. "The feeling in France is that the Americans were imprudent,
incautious for a long time" before the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

The government of Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin was elected last year
in part on a law-and-order platform. That has included targeting a surge of
petty crime in French cities but also tightening up on terror groups. The
interior minister, Nicolas Sarkozy, has become one of the country's most
visible leaders, largely by overseeing the efforts of the police.

France also devotes much of its intelligence agencies' energy to the Islamic
underground, both abroad and in its own Muslim community of 5 million to 7
million people.

Americans experienced international terrorism at home largely on that single
day in 2001. In various periods in recent years, the French have experienced
it week after week, month after month.

In 1986, 13 people were killed in the French capital and dozens were injured
when a series of bombs detonated at targets that included a Champs-Elysees
shopping arcade, city hall and police headquarters. Responsibility was
claimed by a group demanding the release of a Lebanese sentenced to life in
prison for complicity in the assassinations of a U.S. and an Israeli
diplomat in Paris.

In 1995, Paris was again brought to a state of siege by a four-month wave of
attacks, the weapon of choice being explosives-filled gas containers, with
nails and bolts added to worsen the carnage. These attacks were attributed
to an Algerian group angry over French support for the Algerian government
and the deaths of four members in the hijacking of an Air France jet.

This experience helped France quickly support the United States after the
Sept. 11 attacks. French warplanes dropped bombs on enemy fighters during a
major battle in the Shahikot Valley in Afghanistan; French troops remain
part of the international peacekeeping detachment in Kabul.

The alliance with the United States appears to have generated retaliation.
In May 2002, 11 French citizens were among the fatalities when a suicide
bomber blew up a bus they were boarding in Karachi, Pakistan. In October,
the hull of a French oil tanker was blasted by a speedboat-borne bomb off
the coast of Yemen.

In recent months, "every opinion poll shows that terrorism is [perceived as]
the main threat to the country," Parmentier said. Yet random conversations
with people encountered on crowded streets in central Paris Saturday
suggested that it was a bigger concern to government than to the population
at large.

The Paris bombings "were shocking and a very serious thing," said Simone De
Teyssiere, 59, who formerly worked for a social security agency. "But now
it's past." In her view, terrorism today is something far away, in other
countries, not to be worried about in France.

For Donia Bouremana, 19, a management student, the memories were more vivid.
"I watch out for strange bags left in the transport system," she said,
adding, "I'm always careful, and it's still in my head."

Simon Pernollet, 26, a bookstore employee, said he did not worry about
terrorism. In his view, terrorism warnings were often not what they
appeared. The United States might have sought the cancellation of the Air
France flights, for instance, in an effort to damage the French carrier
economically, he said.

A conversation with a cafe manager who declined to be identified by name
turned up a similar theme, that the United States uses fear of terrorism to
manipulate public opinion. The invasion of Iraq, which in his view was aimed
at securing the country's oil for President Bush and his associates, could
backfire and create new terrorists seeking revenge, he said.

Indeed, nearly a quarter of people responding to a survey by France's IFOP
polling group in March said they believed that the most important
consequence of war in Iraq could be a resumption of terrorist attacks in
France.

The French government continues to take the terror threat seriously. In
October, police closed off a neighborhood in Paris's Left Bank and practiced
responding to an imaginary attack in which a terrorist smashes a vial of
sarin gas on a subway platform as a train pulls in. About 50 people played
the role of victim; hundreds of medical workers were on hand to tend to
them.

In December, authorities ordered heightened security precautions, based on
intelligence indicating possible attacks around Christmas. Other countries
in Europe did the same, fearing an attack on some symbol of Christianity.
"We feel just the same [as the United States], at war with terrorist
groups," said Jean-Claude Mallet, permanent secretary for national defense
in Raffarin's office.

© 2003 The Washington Post Company

"Earl Evleth" a écrit dans le message
de


So what's your point ?

This is actually true. The French may be completely untrustworthy as
allies but this is not an area in which they are not very good.. What
they can be criticized for in this area was making public the flight
cancellations before the fact, giving any would be terrorists plenty
of notice not to show up and be caught. For that, they deserve worlds
of blame.


On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 09:45:15 +0100, Earl Evleth
wrote:

The article below essentially matches our own experience
over the last 25 or so years, plus other year living
here prior to that.






French Defend Their Approach to Terror Threats
Noting History of Attacks and Defensive Measures, Experts Dismiss U.S.
Suggestions Security Is Lax

By John Burgess
Washington Post Foreign Service
Sunday, December 28, 2003; Page A24

PARIS, Dec. 27 -- Police cordon off a Paris neighborhood for an elaborate
drill to respond to a mock poison gas attack in a subway station. Terror
suspects are tried by special courts. Six Air France flights are canceled
after U.S. intelligence agencies warn that terrorists might be intending to
board.

From close up, France does not look like a country that takes terrorism
lightly. Officials and security experts here lament that despite strict
measures like these, some Americans believe that French opposition to the
invasion of Iraq and to Israeli policies toward the Palestinians means the
country is soft on terrorism.

The French argue that they have developed one of the world's best security
shields, having seen terror close up many times. A chain of bombings
paralyzed Paris in 1986 and 1995; more recently the al Qaeda network has
targeted French citizens abroad.

"The fact is that France has been fighting Islamic terrorism for a long
time," said Guillaume Parmentier, director of the French Center on the
United States. "The feeling in France is that the Americans were imprudent,
incautious for a long time" before the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

The government of Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin was elected last year
in part on a law-and-order platform. That has included targeting a surge of
petty crime in French cities but also tightening up on terror groups. The
interior minister, Nicolas Sarkozy, has become one of the country's most
visible leaders, largely by overseeing the efforts of the police.

France also devotes much of its intelligence agencies' energy to the Islamic
underground, both abroad and in its own Muslim community of 5 million to 7
million people.

Americans experienced international terrorism at home largely on that single
day in 2001. In various periods in recent years, the French have experienced
it week after week, month after month.

In 1986, 13 people were killed in the French capital and dozens were injured
when a series of bombs detonated at targets that included a Champs-Elysees
shopping arcade, city hall and police headquarters. Responsibility was
claimed by a group demanding the release of a Lebanese sentenced to life in
prison for complicity in the assassinations of a U.S. and an Israeli
diplomat in Paris.

In 1995, Paris was again brought to a state of siege by a four-month wave of
attacks, the weapon of choice being explosives-filled gas containers, with
nails and bolts added to worsen the carnage. These attacks were attributed
to an Algerian group angry over French support for the Algerian government
and the deaths of four members in the hijacking of an Air France jet.

This experience helped France quickly support the United States after the
Sept. 11 attacks. French warplanes dropped bombs on enemy fighters during a
major battle in the Shahikot Valley in Afghanistan; French troops remain
part of the international peacekeeping detachment in Kabul.

The alliance with the United States appears to have generated retaliation.
In May 2002, 11 French citizens were among the fatalities when a suicide
bomber blew up a bus they were boarding in Karachi, Pakistan. In October,
the hull of a French oil tanker was blasted by a speedboat-borne bomb off
the coast of Yemen.

In recent months, "every opinion poll shows that terrorism is [perceived as]
the main threat to the country," Parmentier said. Yet random conversations
with people encountered on crowded streets in central Paris Saturday
suggested that it was a bigger concern to government than to the population
at large.

The Paris bombings "were shocking and a very serious thing," said Simone De
Teyssiere, 59, who formerly worked for a social security agency. "But now
it's past." In her view, terrorism today is something far away, in other
countries, not to be worried about in France.

For Donia Bouremana, 19, a management student, the memories were more vivid.
"I watch out for strange bags left in the transport system," she said,
adding, "I'm always careful, and it's still in my head."

Simon Pernollet, 26, a bookstore employee, said he did not worry about
terrorism. In his view, terrorism warnings were often not what they
appeared. The United States might have sought the cancellation of the Air
France flights, for instance, in an effort to damage the French carrier
economically, he said.

A conversation with a cafe manager who declined to be identified by name
turned up a similar theme, that the United States uses fear of terrorism to
manipulate public opinion. The invasion of Iraq, which in his view was aimed
at securing the country's oil for President Bush and his associates, could
backfire and create new terrorists seeking revenge, he said.

Indeed, nearly a quarter of people responding to a survey by France's IFOP
polling group in March said they believed that the most important
consequence of war in Iraq could be a resumption of terrorist attacks in
France.

The French government continues to take the terror threat seriously. In
October, police closed off a neighborhood in Paris's Left Bank and practiced
responding to an imaginary attack in which a terrorist smashes a vial of
sarin gas on a subway platform as a train pulls in. About 50 people played
the role of victim; hundreds of medical workers were on hand to tend to
them.

In December, authorities ordered heightened security precautions, based on
intelligence indicating possible attacks around Christmas. Other countries
in Europe did the same, fearing an attack on some symbol of Christianity.
"We feel just the same [as the United States], at war with terrorist
groups," said Jean-Claude Mallet, permanent secretary for national defense
in Raffarin's office.

© 2003 The Washington Post Company

wrote:

This is actually true. The French may be completely untrustworthy as
allies but this is not an area in which they are not very good.. What
they can be criticized for in this area was making public the flight
cancellations before the fact, giving any would be terrorists plenty
of notice not to show up and be caught. For that, they deserve worlds
of blame.

The flights were cancelled because the US told France that they would not be
allowed to land. It looks to me like the whole affair was designed to make the
French look bad and were part of an agenda to deflect blame. The US claimed that
there were some suspicious people booking flights and boarding in France, giving
the impression that France was not being co-operative in the war on terrorists.
then when France was unable to find any proof of a threat it would make them look
incompetent. Needless to say, the American public, not daring to question Bush
or his credibility, will refuse to realize that they are either crying wolf or
deliberately trying to make France look bad.

On 28/12/03 15:14, in article ,
" wrote:

This is actually true. The French may be completely untrustworthy as
allies but this is not an area in which they are not very good.. What
they can be criticized for in this area was making public the flight
cancellations before the fact, giving any would be terrorists plenty
of notice not to show up and be caught. For that, they deserve worlds
of blame.

The scenario of news release is unclear. First, the US requested
cancellation, the French might have gone along (they suggested it) with
armed guards aboard the planes.

Second, once the first flight had been cancelled, this would
warn off those actually planning other flights.

Thirdly, the press today said the number of "no shows" was normal.
If a no-show has totally disappeared he will be the candidate
to go after.

I have so far concluded that was no plan.

Forthly, historically, the terrorists have selected times when
nothing was expected. With increased security this is hardly
the time to strike.

In the war on terrorism one tends to make plans around what
they have already done, once. 9/11 is likely to be a singularity.
Too much energy has been devoted to not allowing that to happen
again. If history is going to repeat itself I would bet on a
Lockerbie, a bomb placed in the baggage area but placed there
by a paid member of the ground crew.

Earl

writes:

This is actually true. The French may be completely untrustworthy as
allies but this is not an area in which they are not very good.. What
they can be criticized for in this area was making public the flight
cancellations before the fact, giving any would be terrorists plenty
of notice not to show up and be caught. For that, they deserve worlds
of blame.

Perhaps they knew that none of the suspects was a terrorist, and just
wanted to irritate Americans for insisting that they cancel flights
needlessly.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

Mxsmanic wrote:



Perhaps they knew that none of the suspects was a terrorist, and just
wanted to irritate Americans for insisting that they cancel flights
needlessly.

The cancelled the flights because tHe US said the planes would not be allowed
to land.

Forthly, historically, the terrorists have selected times when
nothing was expected. With increased security this is hardly
the time to strike.

I keep saying this as well. September 11 was a typical day. The
only possible advantage of a day in September versus a day at
some other time is that the weather is almost guaranteed to be
spectacular, warm but not hot, with blue skies, and a low chance
of precipitation, i.e. great flying weather. The fuss that the Bush
administration made over July 4 proved that they are totally
devoid of clues. Why would the terrorists strike on the day with
the most security? On the contrary, their next strike will occur
on another typical day, a date with no significance.


Casey

On 28/12/03 21:07, in article , "Dave Smith"
wrote:


Mxsmanic wrote:



Perhaps they knew that none of the suspects was a terrorist, and just
wanted to irritate Americans for insisting that they cancel flights
needlessly.

The cancelled the flights because tHe US said the planes would not be allowed
to land.



That is the bottom line. The French knew they could not insist.

Earl

On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 11:11:48 -0500, Dave Smith
wrote:

wrote:

This is actually true. The French may be completely untrustworthy as
allies but this is not an area in which they are not very good.. What
they can be criticized for in this area was making public the flight
cancellations before the fact, giving any would be terrorists plenty
of notice not to show up and be caught. For that, they deserve worlds
of blame.

The flights were cancelled because the US told France that they would not be
allowed to land. It looks to me like the whole affair was designed to make the
French look bad and were part of an agenda to deflect blame. The US claimed that
there were some suspicious people booking flights and boarding in France, giving
the impression that France was not being co-operative in the war on terrorists.
then when France was unable to find any proof of a threat it would make them look
incompetent. Needless to say, the American public, not daring to question Bush
or his credibility, will refuse to realize that they are either crying wolf or
deliberately trying to make France look bad.


Complete nonsense. It was the US that wanted to keep it quiet to lure
the supposed terrorists to the planes. It was the French who blabbed
about it. And obviously there were credible reports about aircraft
related terrorism becing contemplated or did you miss the Saudis just
nabbing two pilots who were planning to fly planes into a BA jet? I
suppose that was a Bush plot too huh?