"Americans not getting bang for buck in Europe"

Following up to PJ O'Donovan

Reason all attempts at
Socialism whether it is International (communist) or National
Socialism or creeping as we have it here has a history of eventual
economic collapse throughout history.

A few weeks ago some other US right wing fanatic linked the
collapse of communism with trade unions, now its linked to
taxation. Everybody in Europe knows it was the failure of
centralised state controlled economies to function. Where do
Americans get this stuff from? Why do they start ranting
"taxation is theft" and rave on with irrelevant antique terms
like "communism" and "Marxism" when any issue related to
government comes along?
And what on earth has "National Socialism" got to do with it?
That one completely beats me.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Walking, Wasdale, Thames path, London etc "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

On 18/02/04 0:49, in article
, "PJ O'Donovan"
wrote:

. where people`s money
actually is in Europe is harder to pin down, it is easier to hide assets
(Luxembourg, Switzerland) that in the USA.


You have just vindicated supply side economics.

Nobody has vindicated supply side economics! It was destroyed during
the Reagan administration when it was planned that a tax reduction
would generate more tax revenues than it costs. This was pushed
by the Wall Street Journal op-ed page and their love affair with the
Laffer curve. Supply side theory is a ******* concept in modern
economic theory. Simple logic, son. **** is nearly infinitely supplied
but that supply generates no demand.

When tax rates become confiscatory and unreasonable as they are in
Europe,

But they are not confiscatory? They are not in France, which I know
well. That is a distortion, once again. You don`t know the facts,
which is usually the case.

the "rich" will find a way to avoid those taxes and revenues
will reduce. When tax rates become less confiscatory and reasonable
the "rich" will pay and revenues will increase.

The American rates are not confiscatory. But the sentiment of greed is
so well accepted that a number of Americans maintain illegal accounts
in the tax havens of the Caribbean.

Here is a news item today. You better mend your tax cheating ways, PJ!

Are you one of the "more than a million U.S. citizens" cheating?

Cut the "supply side mantra", this is old fashion cheating, greed,
and other forms of behavior, regardless of the tax burden.

Earl

******

http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/2004/01/18/cards.htm

IRS cracks down on Caribbean tax haven credit cards

Sunday, January 18, 2004

NEW YORK, USA: As part of a crack-down, on offshore credit cards, the IRS
has filed several "John Doe" summonses to obtain records from 70 companies,
including Disney, Hilton and Air Canada, regarding credit-card transactions
between 1998 and 2001.*

Previously, the IRS filed seven other lawsuits to scoop up records from
companies that process MasterCard transactions. Yet another lawsuit sought
MasterCard International's records for accounts set up in Antigua and
Barbuda, the Bahamas and the Cayman Islands.*

The IRS is also moving to gather information about MasterCard, Visa and
American Express account holders in 77 other countries.

What the US government is after, obviously, is the identity of anyone who
may have signed up for offshore credit-card deals to evade taxes. The IRS
believes more than a million U.S. citizens hold cards issued by foreign
banks and a million seems like a suspiciously big number to the IRS -
especially when a much smaller number of taxpayers admit to having foreign
bank accounts.*

Following up to Earl Evleth

Mobility is another issue. One British report I read a year or so ago said
the Eastern Europe is the currently more socially mobile than either the USA
or Western Europe.

For social mobility read desperation. Save me from it!

This might be true because of the nearly revolutionary
upheaval that has occurred since communism went out. Some massive amounts
of wealth has moved quite quickly into a few hands, as in Russia. There are
no old rich, just new rich, so the game started
from a ³level² playing field in which being a crook helps.

Being a crook seems essential in novaya Russia!

For him America is the best of all possible worlds.

I do notice a patriotic lack of self examination in *some*
Amercians who post here. I never seem to actually meet these
people in the real world.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Walking, Wasdale, Thames path, London etc "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Following up to Padraig Breathnach

As a former Accountant living in South Georgia, I can assure you that
the
"old" money you refer to is mostly long gone here.

I thought that South Georgia was uninhabited since the whaling station
closed. That's why the money left.

There are penguins I think.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Walking, Wasdale, Thames path, London etc "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

On 18/02/04 1:51, in article
, "PJ O'Donovan"
wrote:

The new rich are classically more arrogant than the old. Ask any
of the old rich. The new rich always come up with the boot strap
story! The old rich know they are lucky, and thank God for his
Blessings.

Earl

As a former Accountant living in South Georgia, I can assure you that
the "old" money you refer to is mostly long gone here.

South Georgia? Where is that!

For the most part what is left is gentile manners, charming silver
tongued elocution and a lot of pretense.

That is to say a social backwater.

Earl

Following up to Reid

Mobility is another issue. One British report I read a year or so ago said
the Eastern Europe is the currently more socially mobile than either the USA
or Western Europe.

For social mobility read desperation. Save me from it!

Doh! Social, you said social. Ignore my comment! (Up at 5am every
day this week after 10 days on El Hierro, knackered!)
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Walking, Wasdale, Thames path, London etc "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

On 18/02/04 1:56, in article ,
"Padraig Breathnach" wrote:

(PJ O'Donovan) wrote:

As a former Accountant living in South Georgia, I can assure you that
the
"old" money you refer to is mostly long gone here.

I thought that South Georgia was uninhabited since the whaling station
closed. That's why the money left.


Attention, PJ might not know world geography.

US students recently scored next to the bottom in the National Geographic
quiz.

Several ago I called a computer magazine in Colorado to
subscribe to it for a colleague in Cuba. The US Embargo against
commerce with Cuba did not include educational materials so it was
not illegal. Since money transfers are, they could not subscribe
themselves so I acted as an intermediary here in France. Their funding,
ironically, came through Sweden which had constantly dissed the
American embargo. So I was not using "Cuban money".

Anyway, in talking with somebody on the phone, I gave the
address to where the magazine subscription was to be sent.

I said it was in Cuba.

The person on the phone said "Cuba, where is that?"

I coughed and thought, and said, "In the western hemisphere, just south of
Florida"

The person said "oh".

Subsequently the subscription never arrived in Cuba, so I guess the US
Postal Service was also not in the know.

So PJ has to clarify this difficult point. Is he on a windswept island in
the South Atlantic?

http://www.btinternet.com/~sa_sa/sou...h_georgia.html

Earl

Padraig Breathnach wrote in message . ..
(PJ O'Donovan) wrote:

As a former Accountant living in South Georgia, I can assure you that
the
"old" money you refer to is mostly long gone here.

I thought that South Georgia was uninhabited since the whaling station
closed. That's why the money left.

Well, there is metropolitan Atlanta and then there is South Georgia
and thank God for the difference. All they want to do is steal our
water and send their
garbage.

Earl Evleth wrote in message ...
On 17/02/04 17:32, in article ,
"Reid" wrote:

Following up to PJ O'Donovan

According to Bartlett there is far greater wealth mobility in the U.S.
than in Europe.

Americans have the idea of a "classless society" in which wealth is
quickly
made (nobody mentions the down side!). I personally know somebody who
lost millions in the dot.com crash (after starting from zero) and ended
up back at zero.

It happens but not part of the PJ`s propaganda.

Earl

Sure it is as is evidenced by what was posted previously:

"Rags to riches to rags again in three generations, is not an American
myth," said Bruce Bartlett, an NCPA senior fellow and the author of
the study. "It has been reality for many families."

According to the study, a significant percentage of the largest
American fortunes were accumulated in a single generation.

80 percent of millionaires acquire their wealth in a single generation
without the benefit of inheritance"


AND ALSO POSTED

"Over a ten year period, 60 percent of families in the bottom ten
percent of wealth distribution had moved up to a higher tenth - and
some all the way up to the top ten percent.Conversely, almost half of
those in the top ten percent of wealth had dropped out of that tier
after 10 years"

Earl- you might read a lot and qoute a lot of sources, but you should
learn to absorb more.

On 18/02/04 9:12, in article ,
"Reid" wrote:

And what on earth has "National Socialism" got to do with it?
That one completely beats me.

PJ posted an item indicating his thinking was still in 1943.
This happens with most people as they get older, they live in the
past. However, I am the same age as he is (72) and still am marching
towards the future. I never thought we had a choice, life is a one way
street.

The world is divided into two basic elements, the reactionary one which
wants to return to the past, and the progressive which is seeking a path
to the future. National Socialism is over 50 years in the past. The world
has "been there, done that" and it did not work.

Earl