*** ***********, Hershey packer

Ari Silverstein wrote in news:893ttmFulcU1
@mid.individual.net:

Many of the clothing-optional cruises are also "swinger" cruises where
private party rooms are used as do-whatever-sexually.

I couldn't tell you about that. The only cruises I know are the Bare
Necessities cruises and they are rather clear about what they expect:

http://www.bare-necessities.com/decorum.html

On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 13:57:05 -0400, Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article ,
Ari Silverstein wrote:


Kurt, with your extensive background RN psychiatry, how much good can
be done to open the doors to a healthier American attitude toward
nudism and sex by adopting nudism and/or naturism?

Nudity and sexual norms are mostly societal and not psychiatric and
way outside my areas of expertise. I have always found it interesting,
though, that the Boomers, who "invented" free love in the 60s, soon
turned back around into what we see today. I guess Don Fagen had it
right: "All those day-glo freaks who used to paint the face, they've
joined the human race. Somethings will never change."

Too often the fastest track to money is tucked inside conformity.
Interesting comment about social setting of norms. Clothes IMO were
borne out of necessity not divine sexual repression. Clothes around
genital areas especially for protection, comfort and warmth. Europeans
live in colder climates than Americans, wear more clothes but have
generally less issues with nudity and sex. Seems contradictory.

I live in SW FL. I don't see any greater freedom of sexual expression
and clothes are kept to shorts, t-shirts and sandals for the most part
6-9 months out of the year.

Then again, I can't help but wonder if we had no clothes, would we
have the different sexual norms that you feel are socially driven. The
nudists in this thread express a disconnect between sexual attitudes
and nudity i.e. the spread of prudishness is equal across textile and
nudist populations. I was surprised by this.

I am looking for a connect between nudism and sexual attitudes but the
conversation keeps going in circles.

Which means that nude cruising is not going to save the world and that
is a damned shame. lol

I am hearing when the clothes come off, the emotional and
psychological barriers can drop away as well. Couldn't seem to hurt
and what a better way to do this than a nude or clothing-optional
cruise?

That is assuming that dropping off the clothes is congruent with
the person's outlook and if they feel comfortable. To impose that on an
unwilling person would do much more damage.

Funny that. Nudists will tell you when they are thrown into a textile
world, have to conform, they have to adjust. Throw a textile into a
nudist world and they are likely to implode.

I tell textile folks that a nude cruise is nowhere to begin to
experiment with nudism. There's literally no place to hide especially
if you have a balcony cabin.
--
Ari Silverstein, C.T.A; C.T.A.S, FREE Cruise Travel Advisory Services
www.cruisequick.com - able to offer some of the lowest prices and best
value added in the industry. (not affiliated)

On Thu, 1 Jul 2010 13:35:56 -0400, Carol Eskra wrote:

I sailed on the Radiance, but no balls to the walls festivities.

Sailed on the Emerald Princess this past April on a 3 generation cruise.
My son and wife met a couple from West Virg. in the disco and all they
talked about was the swinger clubs they belong to, and how they love the
nudist see thru slide in Jamaica. They looked very respectable on the
video I purchased, and she was only missing one tooth.

lol

After they learned my son was not interested in swinging they moved
on. Made me wonder if they found any takers!

They were in the right place, the disco and excursions are the two
best places to look for swappy-funsies.

My wife loves these people. She is so good at titillation and teasing,
I can't keep a straight face. She's 50 going on 33, gym rat, all the
right stuff and its amazing to watch her work both the female and the
male. The females (remember, I'm on the other side of the room) get
all hot and bothered figuring that her Other half is going to be hot.
The males just drool buckets. After she has got her snoot full of free
booze, she excuses herself to find me...and disappears. lol

Amazing show much better than the Cirque de Soleil.
--
Ari Silverstein, C.T.A; C.T.A.S, FREE Cruise Travel Advisory Services
www.cruisequick.com - able to offer some of the lowest prices and best
value added in the industry. (not affiliated)

On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 13:19:11 -0500, Terry J. Wood wrote:

Ari Silverstein wrote in news:893ttmFulcU1
@mid.individual.net:

Many of the clothing-optional cruises are also "swinger" cruises where
private party rooms are used as do-whatever-sexually.

I couldn't tell you about that. The only cruises I know are the Bare
Necessities cruises and they are rather clear about what they expect:

http://www.bare-necessities.com/decorum.html

"Bare Necessities also complies with the cruise line¢s regulations,
which we agreed to when we entered into the charter agreement,
including the right to dismiss persons from the cruise for abusing
alcohol and/or drugs, sexual solicitation..."

I know of no textile, clothing cruises where you would be put to port
for a simple sexual solicitation. Why the overkill?
--
Ari Silverstein, C.T.A; C.T.A.S, FREE Cruise Travel Advisory Services
www.cruisequick.com - able to offer some of the lowest prices and best
value added in the industry. (not affiliated)

In article ,
Ari Silverstein wrote:


On top of that, we have turned into ****ty, materialistic parents but
that's another thread. No excuses can be made.

I would suggest that we have added "self-centered" and egotistical to
the what the old folks did.

--
I want to find a voracious, small-minded predator
and name it after the IRS.
Robert Bakker, paleontologist

In article ,
Ari Silverstein wrote:



That is assuming that dropping off the clothes is congruent with
the person's outlook and if they feel comfortable. To impose that on an
unwilling person would do much more damage.

Funny that. Nudists will tell you when they are thrown into a textile
world, have to conform, they have to adjust. Throw a textile into a
nudist world and they are likely to implode.
That's (largely) because the nudists are already outside the norm and
have the less restrictive mindset to begin with (probably really lousy
explanation, but you can get the drift). It is easier for most folks to
go from outside the norm to inside than the other way around. They are
already not as hung up on norms because they are outside of them. If
you don't understand, let me know and I'll try again. (g).



--
I want to find a voracious, small-minded predator
and name it after the IRS.
Robert Bakker, paleontologist

Ari Silverstein wrote in news:89450uFas1U1
@mid.individual.net:

I am looking for a connect between nudism and sexual attitudes but the
conversation keeps going in circles.

It's hard to find what is not there.

Ari Silverstein wrote in news:8946c4Fj9cU1
@mid.individual.net:

I know of no textile, clothing cruises where you would be put to port
for a simple sexual solicitation. Why the overkill?

You'd have to ask them to know for sure.

But I get the feeling they've had this problem arise in the past and have
found a sure fire way to deal with it.

Ari Silverstein wrote in news:8946unFmtfU1
@mid.individual.net:

More of a colony setting

Maybe it was an ant colony?

Nudists don't live in colonies. We go to camps.

On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 15:09:42 -0400, Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article ,
Ari Silverstein wrote:

That is assuming that dropping off the clothes is congruent with
the person's outlook and if they feel comfortable. To impose that on an
unwilling person would do much more damage.

Funny that. Nudists will tell you when they are thrown into a textile
world, have to conform, they have to adjust. Throw a textile into a
nudist world and they are likely to implode.
That's (largely) because the nudists are already outside the norm and
have the less restrictive mindset to begin with (probably really lousy
explanation, but you can get the drift). It is easier for most folks to
go from outside the norm to inside than the other way around. They are
already not as hung up on norms because they are outside of them. If
you don't understand, let me know and I'll try again. (g).



I get it, I agree. The facts are no matter what the nudist might
believe is their personal norm, the norm that have to live with begins
with clothes on. From there they have to daily adjust. The textile has
no adjustments...until they are faced with nudism (if they ever are).

Textiles who think that clothing-optional cruising will work for them
if they have no nude aspirations are delusional...unless they are
voyeurs.
--
Ari Silverstein, C.T.A; C.T.A.S, FREE Cruise Travel Advisory Services
www.cruisequick.com - able to offer some of the lowest prices and best
value added in the industry. (not affiliated)