"Special" swimming times for Muslims in UK public swimming pools

Addinall wrote:


Shrug. Having Muslim women being given an hour
pool time upsets me not one bit.


OK, but it's the slippery slope to segregation IMO.

Shrug. You can't argue for GOOD segregation and
argue against BAD segregation.


Yes, I think that's exactly what we should do.
Men only private clubs and women only gym sessions
are not harming society.

(Actually -- scrub that! -- typing "men only
clubs" is making me seethe!!! ....Ban them! :-)

Religious segregation does harm society, but we're
only just beginning to realize that in the UK.


It's silly. I don't
have a clothing fetish. Most do. It's just a matter of
degree on the whole. And, it seems, that we respect
OTHER people's sensibilities.


I think religiously segregated public leisure facilities
harms society. I just can't see how it can be
justified.
Would you accept Christian only swimming
sessions in public pools?

I think it is discrimatory. I would disagree with
special swimming times for any religions: Christian,
Muslim, Hinudu, Jewish, whatever.
But there are only special concessions in this case
for Muslims. Non-Muslims can only join the sessions
if they dress in Islamic clothes.

I suggest you're fantasizing. The situation in the UK is that pools
have special times for *women* - these happen to be the only times
Muslim women go, and in some places not many other women do, but
there is absolutely zero requirement for any special clothing, and
most of the participants, whatever their religion, will be wearing
ordinary swimsuits.

============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ==============
Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/ for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557

In article , Jack Campin -
bogus address says...

I think it is discrimatory. I would disagree with
special swimming times for any religions: Christian,
Muslim, Hinudu, Jewish, whatever.
But there are only special concessions in this case
for Muslims. Non-Muslims can only join the sessions
if they dress in Islamic clothes.

I suggest you're fantasizing. The situation in the UK is that pools
have special times for *women* - these happen to be the only times
Muslim women go, and in some places not many other women do, but
there is absolutely zero requirement for any special clothing, and
most of the participants, whatever their religion, will be wearing
ordinary swimsuits.


No, that's not true. The women have to wear special
clothing. Non-Muslim women can only join them if they
agree to dress in the same way.
There are separate sessions for Muslim men too.
Certain dress requirements apply for them also.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770


--

~*~*Emma*~*~
http://www.carols.org.uk/we_wish_you..._chris1mas.htm

wrote:
Addinall wrote:


Shrug. Having Muslim women being given an hour
pool time upsets me not one bit.


OK, but it's the slippery slope to segregation IMO.

Shrug. You can't argue for GOOD segregation and
argue against BAD segregation.


Yes, I think that's exactly what we should do.
Men only private clubs and women only gym sessions
are not harming society.

If you say so. Idon't have a problem with your belief system.


(Actually -- scrub that! -- typing "men only
clubs" is making me seethe!!! ....Ban them! :-)

Religious segregation does harm society, but we're
only just beginning to realize that in the UK.

Oh don't be silly. I lived in Doncaster and Sheffield
in the 50s through the 60s, Again in 1973-1975,
again in 1988 - 1990. I saw a lot of Paki Bashing
years and years ago. Some people have always
been somewhat intolerant.



It's silly. I don't
have a clothing fetish. Most do. It's just a matter of
degree on the whole. And, it seems, that we respect
OTHER people's sensibilities.


I think religiously segregated public leisure facilities
harms society. I just can't see how it can be
justified.

Nor I. But I'm not forcing my will onto others.
That's what "liberal" means.

Would you accept Christian only swimming
sessions in public pools?

User pays Darls. If you can get a group of Christians
together that want the pool for thier very own for
an hour, I don't have a problem.

Mark Addinall.

I think it is discrimatory. I would disagree with
special swimming times for any religions: Christian,
Muslim, Hinudu, Jewish, whatever.
But there are only special concessions in this case
for Muslims. Non-Muslims can only join the sessions
if they dress in Islamic clothes.
I suggest you're fantasizing. The situation in the UK is that pools
have special times for *women* - these happen to be the only times
Muslim women go, and in some places not many other women do, but
there is absolutely zero requirement for any special clothing, and
most of the participants, whatever their religion, will be wearing
ordinary swimsuits.
No, that's not true.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk [...]

Got a source that isn't a consistently racist rag going back to when
it backed Hitler in the 30s?

I know how this worked in Glasgow, when the council's closure of the
Govanhill baths left Muslim women with no option at all - Govanhill
alowed for women-only swimming, the miles-away glass box they got as
a replacement meant they could have sessions of women-only swimming
but with anybody who wanted to perving. I take that's what you want.

============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ==============
Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/ for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557

In article , Jack Campin -
bogus address says...

I think it is discrimatory. I would disagree with
special swimming times for any religions: Christian,
Muslim, Hinudu, Jewish, whatever.
But there are only special concessions in this case
for Muslims. Non-Muslims can only join the sessions
if they dress in Islamic clothes.
I suggest you're fantasizing. The situation in the UK is that pools
have special times for *women* - these happen to be the only times
Muslim women go, and in some places not many other women do, but
there is absolutely zero requirement for any special clothing, and
most of the participants, whatever their religion, will be wearing
ordinary swimsuits.
No, that's not true.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk [...]

Got a source that isn't a consistently racist rag going back to when
it backed Hitler in the 30s?

It's a mainstream newspaper, Jack. It wouldn't be in
print if it was racist. And you're thinking of the
Evening Standard? That backed Hitler in the 30's.

In any case, you have to concede that
the swimming pool in Croydon is insisting on
Muslim dress.


I know how this worked in Glasgow, when the council's closure of the
Govanhill baths left Muslim women with no option at all - Govanhill
alowed for women-only swimming, the miles-away glass box they got as
a replacement meant they could have sessions of women-only swimming
but with anybody who wanted to perving. I take that's what you want.


Jack, there's no need to get nasty.
I will accept that was the situation in Glasgow.
You must accept that you were wrong about Croydon.
And please retract what you said about my
fantasizing. I don't often fantasize about Muslim
men in Islamic-style long swimming trousers :-)


--

~*~*Emma*~*~
http://www.carols.org.uk/we_wish_you..._chris1mas.htm

In article . com, Addinall
says...


wrote:
Addinall wrote:


Shrug. You can't argue for GOOD segregation and
argue against BAD segregation.


Yes, I think that's exactly what we should do.
Men only private clubs and women only gym sessions
are not harming society.

If you say so. Idon't have a problem with your belief system.


Well it's a fact, isn't it?
Or do you think otherwise?


(Actually -- scrub that! -- typing "men only
clubs" is making me seethe!!! ....Ban them! :-)

Religious segregation does harm society, but we're
only just beginning to realize that in the UK.

Oh don't be silly. I lived in Doncaster and Sheffield
in the 50s through the 60s, Again in 1973-1975,
again in 1988 - 1990. I saw a lot of Paki Bashing
years and years ago. Some people have always
been somewhat intolerant.


So you're arguing for segregation?


It's silly. I don't
have a clothing fetish. Most do. It's just a matter of
degree on the whole. And, it seems, that we respect
OTHER people's sensibilities.


I think religiously segregated public leisure facilities
harms society. I just can't see how it can be
justified.

Nor I. But I'm not forcing my will onto others.
That's what "liberal" means.


Is segregation supported by liberals?


Would you accept Christian only swimming
sessions in public pools?

User pays Darls. If you can get a group of Christians
together that want the pool for thier very own for
an hour, I don't have a problem.


Well when will the general public get to use the
public swimming pool if every religious group
can claim their special hour?


--

~*~*Emma*~*~
http://www.carols.org.uk/we_wish_you..._chris1mas.htm

In article , Emma says...

In article , Jack Campin -
bogus address says...

I think it is discrimatory. I would disagree with
special swimming times for any religions: Christian,
Muslim, Hinudu, Jewish, whatever.
But there are only special concessions in this case
for Muslims. Non-Muslims can only join the sessions
if they dress in Islamic clothes.
I suggest you're fantasizing. The situation in the UK is that pools
have special times for *women* - these happen to be the only times
Muslim women go, and in some places not many other women do, but
there is absolutely zero requirement for any special clothing, and
most of the participants, whatever their religion, will be wearing
ordinary swimsuits.
No, that's not true.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk [...]

Got a source that isn't a consistently racist rag going back to when
it backed Hitler in the 30s?

It's a mainstream newspaper, Jack. It wouldn't be in
print if it was racist. And you're thinking of the
Evening Standard? That backed Hitler in the 30's.

In any case, you have to concede that
the swimming pool in Croydon is insisting on
Muslim dress.


And if you still aren't convinced...

http://www.croydon.gov.uk/leisure/sports/swim/498121

Apology please, Jack!


--

~*~*Emma*~*~
http://www.carols.org.uk/we_wish_you..._chris1mas.htm

I think it is discrimatory. I would disagree with special swimming
times for any religions: Christian, Muslim, Hinudu, Jewish, whatever.
But there are only special concessions in this case for Muslims.
Non-Muslims can only join the sessions if they dress in Islamic
clothes.
I suggest you're fantasizing. The situation in the UK is that pools
have special times for *women* - these happen to be the only times
Muslim women go, and in some places not many other women do, but
there is absolutely zero requirement for any special clothing, and
most of the participants, whatever their religion, will be wearing
ordinary swimsuits.
No, that's not true.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk [...]
Got a source that isn't a consistently racist rag going back to when
it backed Hitler in the 30s?
It's a mainstream newspaper, Jack. It wouldn't be in print if it was
racist.

It wouldn't be in print if it was too racist for Tony Blair, but that
doesn't mean a hell of lot.

It has been consistently the worst in the UK for cheerleading attacks
on refugees.


And you're thinking of the Evening Standard? That backed Hitler in
the 30's.

So did the Mail and the Express.


In any case, you have to concede that the swimming pool in Croydon
is insisting on Muslim dress.

Not according to their website.

And if you still aren't convinced...
http://www.croydon.gov.uk/leisure/sports/swim/498121
Apology please, Jack!

What they actually say:

: Contrary to national press reports over the weekend,

by which they presumably mean the Daily Mail...

: sessions are
: open to all faiths. The sessions for women are held on Saturday
: afternoon and the sessions for men are held on Sunday afternoons.
: The dress code during these sessions requires a greater level of
: covering-up than would be the case during public opening hours.

Which most likely means "no string bikinis".

I'll be in Istanbul in a week. When I'm in Turkey I generally dress
according to the local version of the Islamic dress code for men. What
do you suppose that means? And how do you suppose the Daily Mail would
interpret that statement?

[Followups set to rte, the only one of these groups I read - I doubt
people on the death penalty group want to see their forum trivialized
like this.]

============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ==============
Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/ for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557

Jack Campin - bogus address wrote:
I suggest you're fantasizing. The situation in the UK is that pools
have special times for *women* - these happen to be the only times
Muslim women go, and in some places not many other women do, but
there is absolutely zero requirement for any special clothing, and
most of the participants, whatever their religion, will be wearing
ordinary swimsuits.
No, that's not true.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk [...]
Got a source that isn't a consistently racist rag going back to when
it backed Hitler in the 30s?
It's a mainstream newspaper, Jack. It wouldn't be in print if it was
racist.

It wouldn't be in print if it was too racist for Tony Blair, but that
doesn't mean a hell of lot.

It has been consistently the worst in the UK for cheerleading attacks
on refugees.


That would be incitement, which would be covered
by UK law.
You also said it was racist. If it was racist, it would be
breaking other UK laws.



And you're thinking of the Evening Standard? That backed Hitler in
the 30's.

So did the Mail and the Express.

I didn't know that, but I would still need to see proof.
In any case, that obviously doesn't mean
a thing today.


In any case, you have to concede that the swimming pool in Croydon
is insisting on Muslim dress.

Not according to their website.

Yes.


And if you still aren't convinced...
http://www.croydon.gov.uk/leisure/sports/swim/498121
Apology please, Jack!

What they actually say:

: Contrary to national press reports over the weekend,

by which they presumably mean the Daily Mail...

: sessions are
: open to all faiths. The sessions for women are held on Saturday
: afternoon and the sessions for men are held on Sunday afternoons.
: The dress code during these sessions requires a greater level of
: covering-up than would be the case during public opening hours.

Which most likely means "no string bikinis".

Certainly. It means covering up sufficiently to enable
Muslims to swim.
Therefore Islamic dress rules apply. You denied that.


I'll be in Istanbul in a week. When I'm in Turkey I generally dress
according to the local version of the Islamic dress code for men. What
do you suppose that means?

I don't know. But we're not talking about day wear
in Istanbul.

Have a nice time. Istanbul for Christmas? Hmmm...
not my idea of a good time, but each to his own.

Remember, if you want to swim, don't take the
itsy-bitsy swimwear.

And I'm still waiting for that apology....