Holland America is Going More Upscale

It looks like Carnival wants to differentiate HAL as a bit more
upscale. I would expect a slightly higher pricing schedule, as well.
Personally, I welcome it.

"Holland America Announces $225 million "Signature of Excellence
Initiative"

As one of our valued past guests and a Mariner Society member, we
want you to be among the first to know about our new $225 million
investment in unparalleled product and service enhancements on our
fleet of 12 five-star ships. Called “Signature of Excellence,” this
comprehensive initiative will strengthen our position as the premium
cruise leader and center around five main components of Holland
America Line’s cruise experience:

• dining
• accommodations
• service
• activities
• destinations

This nearly quarter of a billion dollar commitment is the most
significant product investment in our industry and will clearly cement
our leadership position. We will continue our promise of delivering
the best premium cruise experience available.

We are evaluating and assessing just about every aspect of our
operation to ensure that we provide our guests with a truly
extraordinary experience and tremendous value. Holland America Line
clearly sets the industry standard in premium cruising, and we need to
challenge ourselves diligently and deliberately to ensure our
excellent product of today is even better in the future. With
“Signature of Excellence” we will ensure that our premium product is
well matched to meet the expectations of tomorrow’s sophisticated
travelers.

Enhancements, and in some cases construction, associated with the
“Signature of Excellence” initiative will begin in late 2003 and are
scheduled to be fully completed on all Holland America Line ships
within 24 months. All shipboard work will occur during regularly
scheduled dry-docks. Many of the “Signature of Excellence”
enhancements will be incorporated on the company’s 13th and 14th ships
that are under construction in Italy. The 1,848-passenger Vista class
ship ms Westerdam is scheduled for delivery in April 2004 and a yet
unnamed vessel joins the fleet in January 2006.

Enhanced Dining Experience
Long known for the most extensive menus at sea, Holland America
Line will further differentiate its dining experience with additions
such as the new Pinnacle Grill, even more personalized service and two
more dining times in the main dining room, enhanced Lido dining and
services, and a groundbreaking new Culinary Arts Program.

The Pinnacle Grill is a popular alternative restaurant that is
currently featured on eight ships and will be added to the remaining
ships. The Pinnacle Grill serves Pacific Northwest specialties
including aged, prime beef and superb seafood items, as well as fine
wines, all in a romantic, upscale atmosphere – complete with
distinctive Bulgari china and elegant Riedel stemware.

The popular Lido -- a casual alternative dining experience,
features breakfast, lunch and dinner in a relaxed, buffet and
food-court style -- will be further enhanced with made-to-order dinner
entrees and table-side waiter service at dinner.

A new Culinary Arts Program will be an interactive experience that
will appeal to gourmet food and wine lovers, and will be conducted in
specially designed “Culinary Arts Theaters” on-board the ships.

More Luxurious Accommodations
Already offering the most spacious and elegant accommodations in
premium cruising, Holland America Line will enhance its staterooms
with even more luxurious items.

All staterooms will be outfitted with Premium Plush Euro-Top
mattresses, 100 percent Egyptian cotton bed linens, extra-fluffy
towels and deluxe terry bathrobes. New amenities will include massage
showerheads, lighted magnifying make-up mirrors and stylish new hair
dryers. Guests will also be welcomed with a complimentary fresh fruit
basket and an elegant stainless-steel ice bucket and serving tray for
use with in-cabin beverages.

Holland America Line is the industry leader in suites with the
highest percentage of suite accommodations among major cruise lines.
With "Signature of Excellence," our suites will be enhanced with
additional amenities including comfortable duvets on the beds,
fully-stocked mini-bars, VCRs or DVD players and access to a
well-stocked video/DVD library, and personalized stationery.

“Signature of Excellence” will further enhance the “suite life”
with the expansion of the Neptune Lounge. Currently available on seven
Holland America Line ships, this industry-leading concierge lounge
will be extended to all the ships in the fleet. The exclusive Neptune
Lounge is a private retreat for Deluxe Verandah Suite and Penthouse
Suite guests, where they can relax, read, socialize, as well as take
advantage of the personalized services from the Neptune Lounge’s
concierge.

Continued Superb Service Levels
Holland America Line, renowned for its superb service will enhance
its service level even further with many additional touches, including
early embarkation and a state-of-the-art Greenhouse Spa experience.

The company recently announced an early embarkation program across
its 12-ship fleet that features boarding as early as 11:30 a.m. and a
leisurely disembarkation process at the end of the voyage. In
addition, other service enhancements include a convenient folio
posting of nominal, optional gratuities, as well as automatic service
charge postings to bar-bills, thus simplifying the sometimes confusing
cruise tipping system.

The famed land-based Greenhouse Spa, already existing on
Vista-class ships, will be added to the other ships in the fleet.
Guests can choose from a variety of Signature Treatments designed
especially for Holland America Line. To accommodate the Greenhouse Spa
features, spa and fitness facilities will be expanded, adding several
treatment rooms, a thermal suite and a hydro-pool.

Exciting and Unique Activities
In order to provide guests with new and unique enrichment
experiences, Holland America Line will introduce a number of
enhancements including the aforementioned Culinary Arts Theater,
Exploration and Enrichment programs and an upgraded HAL Kids Center.

A new Sidewalk Café/Exploration Center will be the hub of the
enrichment programs and will provide a multi-dimensional venue focused
on destination, relaxation and entertainment choices. In addition,
Holland America Line will expand its lecture series with more diverse
offerings.

A more comprehensive Kids Center and Youth Program will offer
age-specific activities designed to provide kids with entertaining
choices and parents with peace of mind knowing their children are
enjoying supervised fun.

Unmatched Destinations
Holland America Line will stay true to its tradition of exploration
by offering the best itineraries in the industry. The company will
enhance its robust shore excursion program to include more “Medallion
Shore Excursions.” These one-of-a-kind, exclusive experiences are
available in many ports and range from private tours of estates in the
Caribbean to big game photo tours in Africa to private helicopter
tours over Hong Kong.

Holland America Line’s Half Moon Cay, the highest-rated private
island in the Caribbean, will feature new options such as horseback
riding, a stingray lagoon experience, a new Kids Aqua Park and a Wave
Runner Park.

This unprecedented initiative will significantly raise the bar in
premium cruising and ensure that the Holland America Line experience
is unmatched. We are committed to ensuring that "Signature of
Excellence" becomes a hallmark of the Holland America Line tradition.

Thank you for your continued support of Holland America Line. We
look forward to having you sail with us again soon, to experience
first-hand our new "Signature of Excellence" initiatives.




Mason Barge

"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea. If this is tea, please bring me some coffee."
-- Abraham Lincoln

HAL and Carnivall's version of measures made by Celebrity and RCI months
ago. But, we aren't hearing the HAL isn't really premium or premium
anymore discussions.

Interesting, huh?

Ben S.

Mason Barge wrote:
It looks like Carnival wants to differentiate HAL as a bit more
upscale. I would expect a slightly higher pricing schedule, as well.
Personally, I welcome it.

"Holland America Announces $225 million "Signature of Excellence
Initiative"

As one of our valued past guests and a Mariner Society member, we
want you to be among the first to know about our new $225 million
investment in unparalleled product and service enhancements on our
fleet of 12 five-star ships. Called “Signature of Excellence,” this
comprehensive initiative will strengthen our position as the premium
cruise leader and center around five main components of Holland
America Line’s cruise experience:

• dining
• accommodations
• service
• activities
• destinations

This nearly quarter of a billion dollar commitment is the most
significant product investment in our industry and will clearly cement
our leadership position. We will continue our promise of delivering
the best premium cruise experience available.

We are evaluating and assessing just about every aspect of our
operation to ensure that we provide our guests with a truly
extraordinary experience and tremendous value. Holland America Line
clearly sets the industry standard in premium cruising, and we need to
challenge ourselves diligently and deliberately to ensure our
excellent product of today is even better in the future. With
“Signature of Excellence” we will ensure that our premium product is
well matched to meet the expectations of tomorrow’s sophisticated
travelers.

Enhancements, and in some cases construction, associated with the
“Signature of Excellence” initiative will begin in late 2003 and are
scheduled to be fully completed on all Holland America Line ships
within 24 months. All shipboard work will occur during regularly
scheduled dry-docks. Many of the “Signature of Excellence”
enhancements will be incorporated on the company’s 13th and 14th ships
that are under construction in Italy. The 1,848-passenger Vista class
ship ms Westerdam is scheduled for delivery in April 2004 and a yet
unnamed vessel joins the fleet in January 2006.

Enhanced Dining Experience
Long known for the most extensive menus at sea, Holland America
Line will further differentiate its dining experience with additions
such as the new Pinnacle Grill, even more personalized service and two
more dining times in the main dining room, enhanced Lido dining and
services, and a groundbreaking new Culinary Arts Program.

The Pinnacle Grill is a popular alternative restaurant that is
currently featured on eight ships and will be added to the remaining
ships. The Pinnacle Grill serves Pacific Northwest specialties
including aged, prime beef and superb seafood items, as well as fine
wines, all in a romantic, upscale atmosphere – complete with
distinctive Bulgari china and elegant Riedel stemware.

The popular Lido -- a casual alternative dining experience,
features breakfast, lunch and dinner in a relaxed, buffet and
food-court style -- will be further enhanced with made-to-order dinner
entrees and table-side waiter service at dinner.

A new Culinary Arts Program will be an interactive experience that
will appeal to gourmet food and wine lovers, and will be conducted in
specially designed “Culinary Arts Theaters” on-board the ships.

More Luxurious Accommodations
Already offering the most spacious and elegant accommodations in
premium cruising, Holland America Line will enhance its staterooms
with even more luxurious items.

All staterooms will be outfitted with Premium Plush Euro-Top
mattresses, 100 percent Egyptian cotton bed linens, extra-fluffy
towels and deluxe terry bathrobes. New amenities will include massage
showerheads, lighted magnifying make-up mirrors and stylish new hair
dryers. Guests will also be welcomed with a complimentary fresh fruit
basket and an elegant stainless-steel ice bucket and serving tray for
use with in-cabin beverages.

Holland America Line is the industry leader in suites with the
highest percentage of suite accommodations among major cruise lines.
With "Signature of Excellence," our suites will be enhanced with
additional amenities including comfortable duvets on the beds,
fully-stocked mini-bars, VCRs or DVD players and access to a
well-stocked video/DVD library, and personalized stationery.

“Signature of Excellence” will further enhance the “suite life”
with the expansion of the Neptune Lounge. Currently available on seven
Holland America Line ships, this industry-leading concierge lounge
will be extended to all the ships in the fleet. The exclusive Neptune
Lounge is a private retreat for Deluxe Verandah Suite and Penthouse
Suite guests, where they can relax, read, socialize, as well as take
advantage of the personalized services from the Neptune Lounge’s
concierge.

Continued Superb Service Levels
Holland America Line, renowned for its superb service will enhance
its service level even further with many additional touches, including
early embarkation and a state-of-the-art Greenhouse Spa experience.

The company recently announced an early embarkation program across
its 12-ship fleet that features boarding as early as 11:30 a.m. and a
leisurely disembarkation process at the end of the voyage. In
addition, other service enhancements include a convenient folio
posting of nominal, optional gratuities, as well as automatic service
charge postings to bar-bills, thus simplifying the sometimes confusing
cruise tipping system.

The famed land-based Greenhouse Spa, already existing on
Vista-class ships, will be added to the other ships in the fleet.
Guests can choose from a variety of Signature Treatments designed
especially for Holland America Line. To accommodate the Greenhouse Spa
features, spa and fitness facilities will be expanded, adding several
treatment rooms, a thermal suite and a hydro-pool.

Exciting and Unique Activities
In order to provide guests with new and unique enrichment
experiences, Holland America Line will introduce a number of
enhancements including the aforementioned Culinary Arts Theater,
Exploration and Enrichment programs and an upgraded HAL Kids Center.

A new Sidewalk Café/Exploration Center will be the hub of the
enrichment programs and will provide a multi-dimensional venue focused
on destination, relaxation and entertainment choices. In addition,
Holland America Line will expand its lecture series with more diverse
offerings.

A more comprehensive Kids Center and Youth Program will offer
age-specific activities designed to provide kids with entertaining
choices and parents with peace of mind knowing their children are
enjoying supervised fun.

Unmatched Destinations
Holland America Line will stay true to its tradition of exploration
by offering the best itineraries in the industry. The company will
enhance its robust shore excursion program to include more “Medallion
Shore Excursions.” These one-of-a-kind, exclusive experiences are
available in many ports and range from private tours of estates in the
Caribbean to big game photo tours in Africa to private helicopter
tours over Hong Kong.

Holland America Line’s Half Moon Cay, the highest-rated private
island in the Caribbean, will feature new options such as horseback
riding, a stingray lagoon experience, a new Kids Aqua Park and a Wave
Runner Park.

This unprecedented initiative will significantly raise the bar in
premium cruising and ensure that the Holland America Line experience
is unmatched. We are committed to ensuring that "Signature of
Excellence" becomes a hallmark of the Holland America Line tradition.

Thank you for your continued support of Holland America Line. We
look forward to having you sail with us again soon, to experience
first-hand our new "Signature of Excellence" initiatives.




Mason Barge

"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea. If this is tea, please bring me some coffee."
-- Abraham Lincoln

Benjamin Smith wrote:

HAL and Carnivall's version of measures made by Celebrity and RCI months
ago. But, we aren't hearing the HAL isn't really premium or premium
anymore discussions.

Interesting, huh?

Ben S.

There was absolutely nothing premium about my Zuiderdam cruise last
year, except for some really good chocolate after dinner in the
Explorer's Lounge.

Howard

Mason,
I agree with your assessment. I would be willing to pay more, within
reason, to increase the overall quality experience. Effective Jan/04
Princess is also making additions to their suite categories and
implementing a general upgrade.
Steve Hayes
Likes seeing this change in trends.

Mason Barge wrote in message . ..
It looks like Carnival wants to differentiate HAL as a bit more
upscale. I would expect a slightly higher pricing schedule, as well.
Personally, I welcome it.

"Holland America Announces $225 million "Signature of Excellence
Initiative"

As one of our valued past guests and a Mariner Society member, we
want you to be among the first to know about our new $225 million
investment in unparalleled product and service enhancements on our
fleet of 12 five-star ships. Called ?Signature of Excellence,? this
comprehensive initiative will strengthen our position as the premium
cruise leader and center around five main components of Holland
America Line?s cruise experience:

? dining
? accommodations
? service
? activities
? destinations

This nearly quarter of a billion dollar commitment is the most
significant product investment in our industry and will clearly cement
our leadership position. We will continue our promise of delivering
the best premium cruise experience available.

We are evaluating and assessing just about every aspect of our
operation to ensure that we provide our guests with a truly
extraordinary experience and tremendous value. Holland America Line
clearly sets the industry standard in premium cruising, and we need to
challenge ourselves diligently and deliberately to ensure our
excellent product of today is even better in the future. With
?Signature of Excellence? we will ensure that our premium product is
well matched to meet the expectations of tomorrow?s sophisticated
travelers.

Enhancements, and in some cases construction, associated with the
?Signature of Excellence? initiative will begin in late 2003 and are
scheduled to be fully completed on all Holland America Line ships
within 24 months. All shipboard work will occur during regularly
scheduled dry-docks. Many of the ?Signature of Excellence?
enhancements will be incorporated on the company?s 13th and 14th ships
that are under construction in Italy. The 1,848-passenger Vista class
ship ms Westerdam is scheduled for delivery in April 2004 and a yet
unnamed vessel joins the fleet in January 2006.

Enhanced Dining Experience
Long known for the most extensive menus at sea, Holland America
Line will further differentiate its dining experience with additions
such as the new Pinnacle Grill, even more personalized service and two
more dining times in the main dining room, enhanced Lido dining and
services, and a groundbreaking new Culinary Arts Program.

The Pinnacle Grill is a popular alternative restaurant that is
currently featured on eight ships and will be added to the remaining
ships. The Pinnacle Grill serves Pacific Northwest specialties
including aged, prime beef and superb seafood items, as well as fine
wines, all in a romantic, upscale atmosphere ? complete with
distinctive Bulgari china and elegant Riedel stemware.

The popular Lido -- a casual alternative dining experience,
features breakfast, lunch and dinner in a relaxed, buffet and
food-court style -- will be further enhanced with made-to-order dinner
entrees and table-side waiter service at dinner.

A new Culinary Arts Program will be an interactive experience that
will appeal to gourmet food and wine lovers, and will be conducted in
specially designed ?Culinary Arts Theaters? on-board the ships.

More Luxurious Accommodations
Already offering the most spacious and elegant accommodations in
premium cruising, Holland America Line will enhance its staterooms
with even more luxurious items.

All staterooms will be outfitted with Premium Plush Euro-Top
mattresses, 100 percent Egyptian cotton bed linens, extra-fluffy
towels and deluxe terry bathrobes. New amenities will include massage
showerheads, lighted magnifying make-up mirrors and stylish new hair
dryers. Guests will also be welcomed with a complimentary fresh fruit
basket and an elegant stainless-steel ice bucket and serving tray for
use with in-cabin beverages.

Holland America Line is the industry leader in suites with the
highest percentage of suite accommodations among major cruise lines.
With "Signature of Excellence," our suites will be enhanced with
additional amenities including comfortable duvets on the beds,
fully-stocked mini-bars, VCRs or DVD players and access to a
well-stocked video/DVD library, and personalized stationery.

?Signature of Excellence? will further enhance the ?suite life?
with the expansion of the Neptune Lounge. Currently available on seven
Holland America Line ships, this industry-leading concierge lounge
will be extended to all the ships in the fleet. The exclusive Neptune
Lounge is a private retreat for Deluxe Verandah Suite and Penthouse
Suite guests, where they can relax, read, socialize, as well as take
advantage of the personalized services from the Neptune Lounge?s
concierge.

Continued Superb Service Levels
Holland America Line, renowned for its superb service will enhance
its service level even further with many additional touches, including
early embarkation and a state-of-the-art Greenhouse Spa experience.

The company recently announced an early embarkation program across
its 12-ship fleet that features boarding as early as 11:30 a.m. and a
leisurely disembarkation process at the end of the voyage. In
addition, other service enhancements include a convenient folio
posting of nominal, optional gratuities, as well as automatic service
charge postings to bar-bills, thus simplifying the sometimes confusing
cruise tipping system.

The famed land-based Greenhouse Spa, already existing on
Vista-class ships, will be added to the other ships in the fleet.
Guests can choose from a variety of Signature Treatments designed
especially for Holland America Line. To accommodate the Greenhouse Spa
features, spa and fitness facilities will be expanded, adding several
treatment rooms, a thermal suite and a hydro-pool.

Exciting and Unique Activities
In order to provide guests with new and unique enrichment
experiences, Holland America Line will introduce a number of
enhancements including the aforementioned Culinary Arts Theater,
Exploration and Enrichment programs and an upgraded HAL Kids Center.

A new Sidewalk Café/Exploration Center will be the hub of the
enrichment programs and will provide a multi-dimensional venue focused
on destination, relaxation and entertainment choices. In addition,
Holland America Line will expand its lecture series with more diverse
offerings.

A more comprehensive Kids Center and Youth Program will offer
age-specific activities designed to provide kids with entertaining
choices and parents with peace of mind knowing their children are
enjoying supervised fun.

Unmatched Destinations
Holland America Line will stay true to its tradition of exploration
by offering the best itineraries in the industry. The company will
enhance its robust shore excursion program to include more ?Medallion
Shore Excursions.? These one-of-a-kind, exclusive experiences are
available in many ports and range from private tours of estates in the
Caribbean to big game photo tours in Africa to private helicopter
tours over Hong Kong.

Holland America Line?s Half Moon Cay, the highest-rated private
island in the Caribbean, will feature new options such as horseback
riding, a stingray lagoon experience, a new Kids Aqua Park and a Wave
Runner Park.

This unprecedented initiative will significantly raise the bar in
premium cruising and ensure that the Holland America Line experience
is unmatched. We are committed to ensuring that "Signature of
Excellence" becomes a hallmark of the Holland America Line tradition.

Thank you for your continued support of Holland America Line. We
look forward to having you sail with us again soon, to experience
first-hand our new "Signature of Excellence" initiatives.




Mason Barge

"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea. If this is tea, please bring me some coffee."
-- Abraham Lincoln

Howard Garland wrote:
Benjamin Smith wrote:

HAL and Carnivall's version of measures made by Celebrity and RCI
months ago. But, we aren't hearing the HAL isn't really premium or
premium anymore discussions.

Interesting, huh?

Ben S.


There was absolutely nothing premium about my Zuiderdam cruise last
year, except for some really good chocolate after dinner in the
Explorer's Lounge.

While I think the Zuiderdam is a mistake in HAL's judgment for
representing their fleet here are some things that are built in to her
that raises her to another level.

1. Passenger space ratio, look at the similar-sized Carnival ships, the
Zuiderdam carries far less passengers.

2. Suite accommodations, compare the size and amenities of the suites to
RCI or others.

3. What they don't do. Did the waiters sing and dance nightly? Did they
sing "God Bless America". Did they have sexy legs pool games? Did they
have lots of loud announcements?

While the premium level is definitely watered down, there still are
aspects of both HAL and Celebrity that put them in to some other level
than Carnival, RCI, NCL. You may not think of it as premium, but the
value of that word is devalued, just like diva, artist, and hero, they
just don't mean what they did at one time. I'd argue that HAL and
Celebrity meet today's watered down definition of "premium". However,
they also realize that they need to step the level up, and both
Celebrity and now HAL have come up with some cake-frosting ways and some
more substantive ways of doing this.

Ben S.




Howard

CupCaked wrote:
Howard Garland wrote:


There was absolutely nothing premium about my Zuiderdam cruise last
year, except for some really good chocolate after dinner in the
Explorer's Lounge.


This is so sad to hear. I guess we'll continue to stay away from HAL,
even though they used to be our cruise line of choice.

Karen

From what I've read on this ng, it may only be the new, vista class
ships that have this reduced level of service.

Howard

CupCaked wrote:
Howard Garland wrote:


There was absolutely nothing premium about my Zuiderdam cruise last
year, except for some really good chocolate after dinner in the
Explorer's Lounge.


This is so sad to hear. I guess we'll continue to stay away from HAL,
even though they used to be our cruise line of choice.



I think the Prinsendam may offer closer to a HAL cruise of yore. I think
it is HAL embracing the cruise style de jour that makes them seem like
any other line. Different expectations from pax will dictate a different
cruise style, prices determine content. This is across the board, not
just HAL. It's the whole definition of premium that affects all the
lines that were at one time premium (in a higher sense of the word).

The cruise public is responsible to some degree for the product. Most
people sailing HAL and Celebrity today are reasonably satisfied with the
product. I think what we need is a quality product at a similar price
that blows HAL and Celebrity away. If cruising consumers see higher
quality and realize just what they are getting isn't as good as it could
be then Carnival and RCI will not get away with diluting their "premium"
lines and would be forced to raise the level. There's no competition,
Oceana won't be it.

Ben S.


Karen


__ /7__/7__/7__
\::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.cupcaked.com/reviews
(...and leave off the "potatoes" to e-mail)

Benjamin Smith wrote:

While the premium level is definitely watered down, there still are
aspects of both HAL and Celebrity that put them in to some other level
than Carnival, RCI, NCL. You may not think of it as premium, but the
value of that word is devalued, just like diva, artist, and hero, they
just don't mean what they did at one time. I'd argue that HAL and
Celebrity meet today's watered down definition of "premium". However,
they also realize that they need to step the level up, and both
Celebrity and now HAL have come up with some cake-frosting ways and some
more substantive ways of doing this.

Ben S.

Let me get very specific Ben. You and I do not define premium in the
same way. I do not define premium by the presence or absence of singing
waiters, sexy legs contests, or anything like that (and, by the way, I
really hate those things). I also don't define premium by level of
tranquility or reserve, because these things cost a ship nothing.
Finally, I don't define premium in terms of the average SES among
passengers. My definition of premium includes the following:

Food: Quality of ingredients, preparation, presentation, and service.

Accommodations: Size, furnishings, toiletries, steward service.

Entertainment: Quality and quantity of singers, dancers, musicians (and
not just in production shows), costumes, sets, lighting, etc.

Miscellaneous Amenities: Space ratios (you mention this), art and
furnishings in public spaces, deck chairs (padded or bare), pools
(freshwater or sal****er), towels freely available or signed out, gym
equipment, complimentary sauna and steam room, complimentary espresso
and cappuccino, etc.

Miscellaneous Service: Well trained and friendly staff at bars, by the
pool, at the guest relations desk. How well the guest relations staff
handles problems and attempts to to compensate passengers for these
problems (e.g., sending an apology along with a bottle of nice champagne).

You will notice that all of the above has a financial cost to the cruise
line, rather than the passenger.

As someone who cruises very often and watches prices carefully, I can
report that all of the major cruise lines (Carnival, HAL, NCL,
Celebrity, RCCL, Princess) price their Caribbean cruises at about the
same level these days. If anything, RCCL generally commands higher
prices (offers lower discounts) than any of the others.

Considering all of the factors that go into my definition of premium,
all of the majors are just about equal, overall. However, they do
differ on the specific dimensions that I've mentioned. Unfortunately,
and I know you will agree with this, because I have heard you state it
more than once, the differences are getting smaller and smaller as each
line tries to increase its market share and revenue, while containing
its costs.

Here are some examples of differences that I have noticed. I know that
there are many others.

Celebrity, HAL, and Carnival Spirit Class - still offer trays (at an
obvious cost) in their lido restaurants. The others do not. Celebrity,
even provides fake linen place mats on their trays and staff to help you
get seated (a nice touch).

Carnival, NCL, RCCL, and Princess have better entertainment (they
obviously spend more money) overall than Celebrity or HAL.

HAL and celebrity still provide cushions on their pool lounges. Carnival
and RCCL never have provided these for their outdoor pools.

Carnival provides excellent beef, free Cappuccino, and molded butter
with dinner.

Celebrity provides champagne upon boarding, intermezzo's at some meals,
and sorbet by the pool.

RCCL spends a fortune on loading it's mega ships with numerous
specialized spaces sports facilities.

Celebrity and RCCL do not charge a fee for taking cash (from the casino)
on your on-board account.

Unfortunately, all of the lines seem to be doing away with freely
available towels by the pools.

I got so lost in the details that I never stated my conclusion, which
is: At the present time, none of the major cruise lines is, overall,
more premium than any of the others.

Howard

Howard Garland wrote:

Benjamin Smith wrote:

While the premium level is definitely watered down, there still are

aspects of both HAL and Celebrity that put them in to some other level
than Carnival, RCI, NCL. You may not think of it as premium, but the
value of that word is devalued, just like diva, artist, and hero, they
just don't mean what they did at one time. I'd argue that HAL and
Celebrity meet today's watered down definition of "premium". However,
they also realize that they need to step the level up, and both
Celebrity and now HAL have come up with some cake-frosting ways and
some more substantive ways of doing this.

Ben S.


Let me get very specific Ben. You and I do not define premium in the
same way. I do not define premium by the presence or absence of singing
waiters, sexy legs contests, or anything like that (and, by the way, I
really hate those things). I also don't define premium by level of
tranquility or reserve, because these things cost a ship nothing.
Finally, I don't define premium in terms of the average SES among
passengers. My definition of premium includes the following:

Food: Quality of ingredients, preparation, presentation, and service.

Accommodations: Size, furnishings, toiletries, steward service.

Entertainment: Quality and quantity of singers, dancers, musicians (and
not just in production shows), costumes, sets, lighting, etc.

Miscellaneous Amenities: Space ratios (you mention this), art and
furnishings in public spaces, deck chairs (padded or bare), pools
(freshwater or sal****er), towels freely available or signed out, gym
equipment, complimentary sauna and steam room, complimentary espresso
and cappuccino, etc.

Miscellaneous Service: Well trained and friendly staff at bars, by the
pool, at the guest relations desk. How well the guest relations staff
handles problems and attempts to to compensate passengers for these
problems (e.g., sending an apology along with a bottle of nice champagne).

You will notice that all of the above has a financial cost to the cruise
line, rather than the passenger.

As someone who cruises very often and watches prices carefully, I can
report that all of the major cruise lines (Carnival, HAL, NCL,
Celebrity, RCCL, Princess) price their Caribbean cruises at about the
same level these days. If anything, RCCL generally commands higher
prices (offers lower discounts) than any of the others.

Considering all of the factors that go into my definition of premium,
all of the majors are just about equal, overall. However, they do
differ on the specific dimensions that I've mentioned. Unfortunately,
and I know you will agree with this, because I have heard you state it
more than once, the differences are getting smaller and smaller as each
line tries to increase its market share and revenue, while containing
its costs.

Here are some examples of differences that I have noticed. I know that
there are many others.

Celebrity, HAL, and Carnival Spirit Class - still offer trays (at an
obvious cost) in their lido restaurants. The others do not. Celebrity,
even provides fake linen place mats on their trays and staff to help you
get seated (a nice touch).

Carnival, NCL, RCCL, and Princess have better entertainment (they
obviously spend more money) overall than Celebrity or HAL.

HAL and celebrity still provide cushions on their pool lounges. Carnival
and RCCL never have provided these for their outdoor pools.

Carnival provides excellent beef, free Cappuccino, and molded butter
with dinner.

Celebrity provides champagne upon boarding, intermezzo's at some meals,
and sorbet by the pool.

RCCL spends a fortune on loading it's mega ships with numerous
specialized spaces sports facilities.

Celebrity and RCCL do not charge a fee for taking cash (from the casino)
on your on-board account.

Unfortunately, all of the lines seem to be doing away with freely
available towels by the pools.

Having sailed the Zuiderdam as recently as April I was sorely
disappointed.as I have reported. Service in the dining room was the
worst encountered on any ship.
Cleanliness on deck - at the taco station in particular - was not good.
We are sailing on her again over Thanksgiving - decided to late to
obtain a berth on my favourite ship, Golden Princess - and hoping things
have improved vastly.

SUNNY.........will report when I return

S'nd I