European trip ?'s

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 18:42:06 +0100, B wrote:

I disagree with this advice. Taking a nap in the morning is just
setting yourself up for several more days of being on the wrong
schedule. The best thing you can do on your arrival in Europe is stay
outdoors in the sunshine as much as possible and try to go to bed at a
reasonable hour for your new time zone.

I definitely recommend a day trip to some smaller cities while in
London and Paris. From London, a day trip to Salisbury, Bath or York
would be interesting. From Paris, perhaps Chartres or Bayeux. Both
London and Paris are large international cities, and it is interesting
also to see a smaller city in each country.
--
Ditto on the jet lag...stay awake as long as you can when you arrive -
if you take a short nap your sleep pattern will be allout of whack for
sure. Get out and walk/stroll around, then hit bed early
evening...I'd say no earlier than 7pm. You will likely sleep for
about 12 hours, and wake the next morning refreshed. As soon as I get
on the plane I set my watch to the time zone at my destination, so I
start "thinking European."

Another nice trip from Paris is Monet's gardens at Giverny. You take
the train to Vernon (about 40 mins, IIRC), and can take a short bus or
cab ride from the train station. You can also tour his home; the
studio is now a gift shop. The gardens are beautiful and a pleasant
relaxing break form the city.

Jens Arne Maennig wrote:
I stayed in Europe for most of the last 45 years including trevelling
there quite a bit and I never did a group tour or even made use of a
travel agencs (except maybe for booking some business trips in the
pre-internet era). It's certainly not a must or even schould.

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 23:04:00 GMT, lid
(=?ISO-8859-9?Q?Kir=E1ly?=) wrote:
I disagree with this. While it's certainly possible to do a lot of one's
own research on the net, one should head stright to a good travel agent
when it comes time to buy international airline tickets. A good travel
agent can get a better price on international flights than any online
source. Buying an international ticket on the internet is a ripoff,
even from the airlines' own websites.

K.
I research hotels on the net, reading trip advisor and slow trravel
websites, and comparing them to guidebook recommendations, and make a
first night's reservation (but usually none after that). But I do use
a travel agent for airline reservations. I simply have no patience to
scroll around through the online sites comparing schedules and prices.
My agent gets me great fares for a modest fee for the amount of time
it takes me to make a phone call to her. That frees my time to plan
out a general itinerary, read up on local history of the areas I am
planning to see, mark up my guidebook with things that strike my
fancy, all the fun part of planning and anticipating.

Király wrote:

While it's certainly possible to do a lot of one's own research on the
net, one should head stright to a good travel agent when it comes
time to buy international airline tickets. A good travel agent can
get a better price on international flights than any online source.
Buying an international ticket on the internet is a ripoff, even from
the airlines' own websites.

1. For which part of the world should this theory be valid?

2. Are you a travel agent?

Jens

"Jens Arne Maennig" wrote in message
...
Király wrote:

While it's certainly possible to do a lot of one's own research on the
net, one should head stright to a good travel agent when it comes
time to buy international airline tickets. A good travel agent can
get a better price on international flights than any online source.
Buying an international ticket on the internet is a ripoff, even from
the airlines' own websites.

1. For which part of the world should this theory be valid?


Its certainly true buying long haul international air tickets from Britain

2. Are you a travel agent?


No But I know a very good one

There is a class of travel agent called a 'consolidator'

These agents but large blocks of tickets from the airlines at
a price well below the level the airline itself retails them at. The
advantage to the airline is that they are guaranteed cash flow.
The consolidator is then free to sell them to its customers at whatever
markup it can achieve.

These savings are normally quite small on economy class travel
to popular destinations which is a very competitive market but
the savings on business class tickets can be thousands of euros
compared with the best deals available from the airlines direct.

The other are travel agents can be very helpful with is non conventional
routings and stopovers. If you wish to fly into one airport and back
via another they can often get a better deal for you.

Keith

Király wrote:

While it's certainly possible to do a lot of one's own research on the
net, one should head stright to a good travel agent when it comes
time to buy international airline tickets. A good travel agent can
get a better price on international flights than any online source.
Buying an international ticket on the internet is a ripoff, even from
the airlines' own websites.

"Jens Arne Maennig" wrote in message
...
1. For which part of the world should this theory be valid?
2. Are you a travel agent?


On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 08:10:14 -0000, "Keith W"
wrote:
Its certainly true buying long haul international air tickets from BritainNo But I know a very good one

There is a class of travel agent called a 'consolidator'
snipped

The other are travel agents can be very helpful with is non conventional
routings and stopovers. If you wish to fly into one airport and back
via another they can often get a better deal for you.

Particularly when you are dealing with multiple stops in one long
jaunt. My agent got us consolidator tickets Seattle-Amsterdam-Athens.
When we later decided we wanted to fly to Santorini upon arrival in
Athens (45 min flight vs. 5 hr ferry) she booked that flight as well.
I am in Seattle and had tried to contact Olympic at LAX without
success (they didn't have a Seattle ofc, and did not at that time -
Sept 01 travel - do online booking). She booked us in minutes. For
our return, once I determined we were able to take an overnight train
from Zagreb-Venice she confirmed we could fly Marco
Polo-Amsterdam-Seattle. Our entire flight costs were in the range of
$750-800 each. For that much flight time, I thought it was a bargain
and far cheaper than anything I saw on the net from Seattle to
anywhere in Europe that would connect to Athens.

I did book our Superfast and Jadrolinija ferry tickets using the net.
Because we traveled on those mid-Sept the scheduled ferries to Croatia
from Italy were not daily and we needed to make connections on a date
specific. There were no ferries direct from Greece to Croatia. The
other alternative was by bus across Albania, through Kosovo; we
discarded that idea, as my sister's passport has her Croatian surname
on it and in 2001 athough Croatia was perfectly safe (I had also been
there in 1998), Kosovo was still in upheaval.

Following up to David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of
besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h offy

Incidently, I'd add that First Class really isn't necessary, though in high
season it may ensure an added degree of comfort given the crowds that make
the trip.

It is assigned seating though, so no matter how busy, if you have a
ticket you have a seat...

yes, first class is a waste of money, better spent upgrading
elsewhere.
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Following up to jst

Our family of three( 2 adults & 17 y/o )are considering a trip to Europe
this summer. We would want to spend at least 2-3 days in London then 5-7
days going from France ( Paris a must ) to Switzerland ( the alps ).

3 days in London, easiest place to start as English spoken, then
Eurostar to Paris, then on to Switzerland (car/train?), so three
places in about 10 days, sounds sensible to me. You dont want
ages in a place you might decide you dont like. Next year maybe
try somewhere "latin", Sevilla, Firenze, Venice?

We have traveled the states extensively and have never been overseas.Is
this the type of trip that we should do exclusively with a travel agency
and do the group tour bit. We have never been the types to do a group
tour but would do one if we could find the right locations included.

If you dont like group tours you wont like them in Europe either.
On your own you can see less and experience more. You seem to
have a big enough budget to buy yourself out of problems.

We are just starting to look into this and any recommendations would be
appreciated. We are budgeting 10 - 15 thousand , is this reasonable ???

sounds plenty.
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

"Citizen Ted" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 2 Jan 2006 17:33:40 -0800, "PTRAVEL"
wrote:


Finally, bear in mind that Europeans travel a lot lighter than Americans,
so
trains aren't designed for dragging around lots of big suitcases. You'll
have to manage them up and down the train steps yourself. Also, many
European train stations require that you ascend or descend stairs to reach
the platforms.

I'm an American, but an atypical one. I travel light.

I've traveled solo a few times, as well as with a friend, in Europe,
And on each trip, I had everything I needed in a carry-on sized
suitcase and the accompanying carry bag. I check the small suitcase,
even though it might squeeze onboard, because 10-12 hours of flying is
easier without worrying about that stupid overhead/underseat crap. The
carry bag should hold all your flying necessities.

I'm not disagreeing that it's not possible to pack much lighter than the
average American. Bear in mind, though, that "pack light" shouldn't be a
religion, and there are good reasons why it's not always possible, e.g.
extended trips (3 to 5 weeks), business attire, cold weather, etc.



Americans are under the mistaken impression that they need to pack
fresh clothes for each day of the trip plus extra room for souvenirs.
WRONG. In summer, you need a few pairs of pants, shorts (maybe),

Oh, god -- please, don't take shorts.

a few
shirts and a light jacket. They all go in the small suitcase.

Where do you put your dress jacket, your ties, rain coat and dress shirts
and shoes? How many days out of a 4 week trip are you willing to wear the
same socks and underwear? By the way, do you sweat?

You get my point -- different people have different needs. Over-packing is
unnecessary and a pain, but people need what they need. It's like those
obsessed with budget travel. Sure, it's nice if you eat on 1 Euro a day or
less, but if you don't have to, why would you?

In the
carry bag I bring my toiletries (long flight), any gizmos or
paper/pens, as well as the usual flying stuff: paperback books and
food.

I have two carry-on bags -- a camera bag backpack and a small rolling TUMI
computer case. Inside the camera bag is my video camera, tape, extra
batteries, my still camera, three lenses, a digital audio recorder, two
microphones, a rain cape for the camera, a monopod, and battery chargers.
Inside my TUMI is my computer, power supply, various needed accessories
(wifi card, cables, mouse, etc.), my QC2 headphones, my MP3 player, my
travelling pharmacy, my PDA, my blackberry, my cellphone, a book or two and
magazines.


Yes, your clothes will get dirty. That's when you ask for a
laundrette. There's nothing wrong with spending brunch washing clothes
and chatting with the housewives who come by the laundrette.

No, there's nothing wrong with it. However, there's no reason to do it if
you'd rather be doing something else. For my wife, "vacation" means not
having to wash clothes. I'd much rather explore an interesting
neighborhood, discover a restaurant, meander around a museum, ancient ruin
or palace, shop for antiques, etc. than sit in a laundrette and watch
clothes spin around.

Please, please, please, don't turn packing light into a religion --
different folks, different strokes.


You may
even get lucky! ;0)
I've met nice folks at laundrettes from Bath, UK to Cesky Krumlov,
Czechia. (note: at Cesky Krumlov, I met a nice American couple whom I
will see again in a few weeks at a beer festival in Washington state.
Dirty laundry = good friends!)

As you travel, you can ditch your paperback novels and maybe even a
shirt or two.

Um, no, I'm not ditching expensive shirts, thank you.


Replace them with local purchases - souvenirs!

If that's your idea of souvenirs. Again, I find this obsession with
"packing light" somewhat off-putting, because it's less about packing light
and more about assuming that everyone travels in the same way, on the same
budget and for the same reason.

Since you
didn't stuff your small suitcase with 4 trousers and 6 shirts, you'll
have room for those extra souvenirs from all those tacky tourist
shops.

And that's not my idea of souvenirs.


Finally, as PTravel mentioned, lugging around smaller luggage makes
your train travel and walkabouts to/from hotels much easier and less
stressful. I refer any American traveling to Europe to the hallowed
halls of pragmatic travel guru Rick Steves:
http://www.ricksteves.com/.

Ah, I think I understand. I am definitely _not_ in the Rick Steves school
of world travel. I agree completely with his basic philosophy, i.e. get off
the beaten path, eat local, experience the culture. His approach to
budgeting, though, is not something I would ever do.


I didn't discover Rick until after I'd traveled to Europe, but I was
amazed at how his advice paralleled my strategy. Travel light. See the
touristy crap, then quickly find the "real" parts of a city or region.

Quite often, but not always, the touristy crap is very much the real part of
a city or region. Think Florence, for example. The best point Steves
makes, I think, is that there is no reason to be afraid to get off the
tourist path, particularly in Europe. There is, however, a reason why
tourist attractions become tourist attractions. Again, using Florence as an
example, would you really suggest skipping the Uffizi?


Stay at BnB's - not big hotels.

I'd re-phrase that to: don't be afraid to stay in B'n'Bs. Big hotels can
very, very nice if they're the right big hotels, and if you travel at the
right time of year, the difference between a luxury 5-star and a budget
3-star can be considerably less than most people think.

Learn enough of the language and
customs to greet people and ask simple questions. (Mea Culpa: my Czech
consisted of 3 words - and I paid the price for my ignorance).

Absolutely! I can't emphasize this enough -- it makes SO much difference if
you can say, "Excuse me," "Thank you," etc. I've found that people the
world over appreciate and enjoy it if you make the effort. It says, "I'm
interested enough in you, your country and culture to learn to be polite in
your language."


One final word for the OP: 10 days is a short trip. I recommend you
spend 5 days in London (with side trips to Bath or Brighton or
Stonehenge or whatever), then take the Channel train for 5 days in
Paris, with a day trip or two from there. Then fly home from Paris.

I agree completely with this suggestion. Taking day trips is one of the
joys of travelling for a few reasons. Aside from getting out of town and
experiencing something different, you get a chance to really immerse
yourself in day-to-day real life of whatever country you visit. In catching
the train or bus, you'll observe lots of little details, some similar, some
different, that are part of the culture that you're visiting.

My wife and I have been travelling together extensively for about ten years.
We find, as time goes on, we want to spend more and more time in a single
place, using it as a base to explore the surrounding environs. Now, we'll
rarely spend less than a week to 10 days in a new city, though we might do
as little as 5 days in one which we've visited often. We find that we
really get a sense of the gestalt of a place by doing this. As an added
bonus, we invariably find a restaurant, cafe, magazine stand, or something
similar, that we like enough to continue going back to and, after a few
days, we become regulars -- it's nice to be greeted as returning friends
when you're in another country.



You'll enjoy the trip more without the endless travel and
musical-chair hotel stays.

Amen! The biggest mistake new travelers make is to forget that a travel day
is, usually, a wasted day. Whether you're travelling by train or plane, it
means packing, checking out, get to the airport or train station, making the
actual trip, getting to the new hotel, checking in, and then getting
unpacked. I don't care how light someone travels, it's exhausting and not
particularly fun.

And when you get home all excited about the
cool time you had, you can crack open the atlas and start planning
your next 10 day, 2 city trip to Europe.

Sing it, brother! Now, THAT's my religion!



- TR
"Dám si jedno pivo prosím." --- too late to properly ask "I'll have a
beer, please..."

"Keith W" wrote in message
...

"Jens Arne Maennig" wrote in message
...
Király wrote:

While it's certainly possible to do a lot of one's own research on the
net, one should head stright to a good travel agent when it comes
time to buy international airline tickets. A good travel agent can
get a better price on international flights than any online source.
Buying an international ticket on the internet is a ripoff, even from
the airlines' own websites.

1. For which part of the world should this theory be valid?


Its certainly true buying long haul international air tickets from Britain

2. Are you a travel agent?


No But I know a very good one

There is a class of travel agent called a 'consolidator'

These agents but large blocks of tickets from the airlines at
a price well below the level the airline itself retails them at. The
advantage to the airline is that they are guaranteed cash flow.
The consolidator is then free to sell them to its customers at whatever
markup it can achieve.

Buying from a consolidator is a good way to save money, particularl if you
want to fly in business or first class. However, anyone considering buying
from a consolidator should understand the downside: it may be impossible to
make a change to your schedule, even with a penalty. If there is a problem,
your recourse is with the consolidator, not the airline. And, of course,
you probably won't get frequent flyer miles on a consolidator ticket.



These savings are normally quite small on economy class travel
to popular destinations which is a very competitive market but
the savings on business class tickets can be thousands of euros
compared with the best deals available from the airlines direct.

The other are travel agents can be very helpful with is non conventional
routings and stopovers. If you wish to fly into one airport and back
via another they can often get a better deal for you.

Keith

Following up to Martin

It is assigned seating though, so no matter how busy, if you have a
ticket you have a seat...

yes, first class is a waste of money, better spent upgrading
elsewhere.

Not when it's somebody else's money.

nobody suggested that was the case.
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap