Brooklyn Welcomes Cruise Ships!

Do not have to sail out of philly to seethe SS US we can see that just
by driving across the bridge to the airport

What is the matter with philadelphia is just that it is a dirty,drug
infested city,and i am glad we had enough sense to move out 54 years ago

"Chrissy Cruiser" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 11:54:08 -0400, E.k.R. wrote:

Why bother having different brands
if all you are going to do is dilute them?

B/c, Ernie, it is much simpler to have one business plan for a hundred
ships than ot have 100 business plans for 100 ships. Economies of scale,
Ole Chap.

Oh I fully understand economies of scale (my business degree comes in handy
every now and again), but I don't fully understand the purpose of buying a
distinctive brand if your eventual plan is to dilute it. I honesty don't
think Carnival buys various brands with the actual intent to dilute them,
but this is what happens when accountants identify more and more areas to
increase the benefits of economies of scale. If nothing else, at least the
market share is protected. Eventually people will figure out that brand x
and y are essentially the same minus a few relatively minor details, so why
pay the higher price for brand y? It would be much cheaper to shut down one
or more of the similar brands and fold them into one. This is basically
what Carnival has done with Cunard and Princess, although each brand still
carries it's own name. These days there is not a lot of difference between
lines like HAL and Cunard, and Costa, Carnival, and Princess. Thankfully
each brand does continue to offer certain distinctions, but those
distinctions seem to be fading fast.

Ernie

GEORGE IN PA:
I was born and raised in philly,and am 100% glad we decided to move
out,hope never to have to go back for any reason. surfer
e2468

"E.k.R." wrote

I was there, sailing on STATENDAM and NIUEW AMSTERDAM. This was in the
late 70's and 80's. HAL was a great product.

And by the mid 90's Royal Caribbean had the Song of America and the
Sovereign class ships..... Carnival had the Celebration class ships and the
Ecstasy class ships and NCL had the Norwegian Dream and Norwegian Wind.
These companies put new "vacation" ships in the water and HAL didn't change
fast enough to compete. HAL was in terrible shape in the mid 90's. They
never adapted to the change from transportation to recreation.

I certainly don't remember the "rusting hulks". I don't think ROTTERDAM V
was ever in really poor condition. She was treasured up the very end and
HAL took immaculate care of her.

I disagree. By the mid 90's many TA's were calling this ship the RottenDam.
When Premier took over the ship, it was in terrible shape, both mechanically
and decor wise. Do you remember the air conditioning fiasco when Premier
had to install two air-conditioning units on one of the top decks when the
HVAC system went to hell?

In the case of Cunard, it was simply the name they were after.

Absolutely. Cunard didn't have any ships worth buying except the QE 2 and
even that was a money pit. Still is.

Carnival wanted Princess simply to keep it out of the hands of Royal
Caribbean, which would have seriously eroded Carnival's market dominance.
I don't blame them, but I do want to make it clear that Princess did not
need Carnival to survive.

You are correct and I never said differently. Getting involved with
Princess was a strategic financial move and nothing else.

They are not in business to perpetuate or replicate a "tradition".

Oh but they are! Why do you think Carnival bought Cunard to begin with?
It's all about "tradition" and the old style of ocean crossings.

No, it is about marketing a concept that people will buy. As I already
stated, I think this was a mistake and the lukewarm sales of the QM 2 are
proof.


--
George in PA http://www.countryside-travel.com

Miracle in May - http://www.cruisemaster.com/miracle.htm
The Mother of All Group Cruises 2 - http://www.moagc2.com/

"Benjamin Smith" wrote

You're a wonderful mouthpiece for Carnival Corp., they must love you.

Ironically, I had a meeting with a Carnival Corp person yesterday and he
told me that I was too hard in my criticism of that company. Since I have
both ends of the spectrum covered, I figure I am doing something right by
pleasing the people in the middle... and those are my customers.

Fact is that I don't care what Carnival Corp thinks of me (if they bother to
think of me at all). My criteria for dealing with any cruise company is
that they provide my customers with a good value and customer satisfaction.
MY main purpose for being a travel agent is to make a profit and I do that
by matching the customer's needs and desires with a cruise line that will
deliver. The fact that I love what I do is a plus, but unless I make a
profit I wouldn't last very long.

BTW - I think you would be hard pressed to cite many instance where I
"defend" Carnival. My opinions are about what is happening, not whether it
is
good or bad. Personally, I see the evolution of the "ocean liner" industry
into the "cruise vacation" industry as a good thing. I admire the business
acumen that Carnival Corp has to start a company from nothing and build it
into the major player in the industry today. I don't defend their tactics
or marketing strategies but I am smart enough to be able to separate the
hype from the product and guide my customers accordingly.


--
George in PA http://www.countryside-travel.com

Miracle in May - http://www.cruisemaster.com/miracle.htm
The Mother of All Group Cruises 2 - http://www.moagc2.com/

"Surfer E2468" wrote
GEORGE IN PA:
I was born and raised in philly,and am 100% glad we decided to move
out,hope never to have to go back for any reason. surfer
e2468


According to another post, you left Philadelphia 54 years ago. It is nice
that you are basing your opinion of the Port of Philadelphia on current
information.


--
George in PA http://www.countryside-travel.com

Miracle in May - http://www.cruisemaster.com/miracle.htm
The Mother of All Group Cruises 2 - http://www.moagc2.com/

In article ,
Thomas Smith -NO-SPAM wrote:

Granted my New York geography is a bit lacking, but I pulled up maps of the
area where the Brooklyn cruise ship terminal will be. If I am reading this
right, it will be at Atlantic Ave. and Columbia St., right off exit 27 of
the BQE (I-278). Folks from New Jersey can take I-278 across Staten Island
and the Verazano Narrows bridge, and end up going directly to the terminal,
unless traffic gets real fun at the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel (I-478) right
there. Now, if you are coming from the north, you could take I-95 across
the George Washington Bridge, pick up the Deegan Expressway (I-87) south to
the Grand Central Parkway (I-278) towards LaGuardia (is that the Tri-Borough
Bridge?), and follow I-278 as it becomes the BQE.

Now, you New Yorkers, please tell me what is wrong with these directions.

Well, they are pretty good, except for one small problem - they'll
leave you quite far away from the proposed site.

For those unfamiliar with the area, this link -

http://www.oasisnyc.net/OASISMap.asp...77856&Bottom=1
84731&Right=984878&Top=191753&xMin=&xMax=&yMin=&yM ax=&Action=pan&tool=&E
XPRESSWAYS=&LOT_LABELS=&LOTS=&BUILDINGS=&mTheme=Se lect+a+map+theme&zoomw
idth=1.33&Refresh=Refresh&Photo=on&NYC_ST_LABELS=o n&SUBWAY_STATIONS=on&S
UBWAY_ROUTES=on&FERRY_STOPS=on&FERRY_ROUTES=on&WAT ERFRONT_ACCESS=on&PIER
S=on&STREAMS=on&NJ_LAKES=on

- will give an aerial view (yes that's five and a half lines of link -
make sure include all of it).

Pier 12 is the large brownish rectangle just left of center in the
image. Pier 11 is the long whiteish strip on the long side of the
basin. If you zoom in twice on the pier, you'll get a much better feel
for the area involved - internal railroad tracks and everything.

Atlantic and Columbia is way up at the top right corner of the map; the
BQE/Gowanus/Brooklyn Battery Tunnel interchange is in the lower right
quarter.

The OASIS map is five years old; however, the land use sections are
supposedly updated every now and then. To get a better overview on the
area, in the Land Use section, turn on the following lines -
NYCHA Properties, and all the choices from Piers to Vacant Lots. This
is a very industrial area. Supposedly, an IKEA store is being built
somewhere in the area, but that project is on hold due to an asbestos
issue.

In article , Charles
wrote:

In article . net,
Benjamin Smith wrote:

Not seeing QM2 anymore in Manhattan or going to Liberty Park to
watch the ship sail is a big loss.

I think they will sail up around Governors Island and back down past
the Statue of Liberty. That will give it a view of downtown Manhatten.
If they did that, you should see the QM2 from the Liberty Park.

Why go the long way - Buttermilk Channel is already deep enough and it
won't interfere with normal shipping traffic in the harbor.

In article , Alex L
wrote:

I think they will sail up around Governors Island and back down past
the Statue of Liberty. That will give it a view of downtown Manhatten.
If they did that, you should see the QM2 from the Liberty Park.

Why go the long way - Buttermilk Channel is already deep enough and it
won't interfere with normal shipping traffic in the harbor.

Thw "why" is so that you will have a sailaway with a great view of the
New York skyline and the Statue of liberty!!!

--
Charles