Air France? Ptui!

Kris Baker wrote:
"Tchiowa" wrote in message
ps.com...

Phoenix wrote:
In article , says...
qu'est-ce que c'est wrote:
[snip]

Overall, I've found the French helpful if you will just take the
trouble to learn a few hundred words of French and use them. OTOH, if
you think that they ought to speak English because that is the right
and proper language, you are likely to get what you deserve. (The
bare _attempt_ to stumble through a sentence in French was enough to
get me smiling help -- in English.)


That's true in any foreign country, as far as I've noticed. Learn to
string together a few sentences and people suddenly start to smile and
warmly help you out. I have no idea why France catches hell for it when
the same is true everywhere.

Because that's not what the French do. I have found (advised originally
by friends and it turned out to be true) that if you are in France and
speak to someone in any language other than French or English they will
happily switch to English (if they can) and help you. But if you
approach them in English you get treated like dirt.

That wasn't our experience at all. We made plenty of goofs, laughed
at ourselves, let them laugh at us, and were treated well.

The *only* rude person we encountered in France was a young man
we asked for directions. He turned out to be from London, who
started in on an anti-French rant, telling us how lucky we were to
have asked him, instead of a Frenchman who'd have answered
rudely. That made a good party story that evening.

I suggest that you were "lucky". My job in the 90s took me to Paris for
about a day or so close to 100 times. I could count the number of times
I was *not* treated rudely on one hand.

In article . com,
says...

Kris Baker wrote:
"Tchiowa" wrote in message
ps.com...

Phoenix wrote:
In article , says...
qu'est-ce que c'est wrote:
[snip]

Overall, I've found the French helpful if you will just take the
trouble to learn a few hundred words of French and use them. OTOH, if
you think that they ought to speak English because that is the right
and proper language, you are likely to get what you deserve. (The
bare _attempt_ to stumble through a sentence in French was enough to
get me smiling help -- in English.)


That's true in any foreign country, as far as I've noticed. Learn to
string together a few sentences and people suddenly start to smile and
warmly help you out. I have no idea why France catches hell for it when
the same is true everywhere.

Because that's not what the French do. I have found (advised originally
by friends and it turned out to be true) that if you are in France and
speak to someone in any language other than French or English they will
happily switch to English (if they can) and help you. But if you
approach them in English you get treated like dirt.

That wasn't our experience at all. We made plenty of goofs, laughed
at ourselves, let them laugh at us, and were treated well.

The *only* rude person we encountered in France was a young man
we asked for directions. He turned out to be from London, who
started in on an anti-French rant, telling us how lucky we were to
have asked him, instead of a Frenchman who'd have answered
rudely. That made a good party story that evening.

I suggest that you were "lucky". My job in the 90s took me to Paris for
about a day or so close to 100 times. I could count the number of times
I was *not* treated rudely on one hand.

As compared to what other non-English country? If you've only blared
away in France, expecting everyone to fall on their knees for you, then
you don't have much to compare the country to.

bel

Phoenix wrote:
In article . com,


As compared to what other non-English country? If you've only blared
away in France, expecting everyone to fall on their knees for you, then
you don't have much to compare the country to.

Portugal, Angola, DR Congo, Nigeria, Benin, Morocco, Kazakhstan,
Germany, Italy, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Russia, Latvia, Thailand,
Indonesia, Papua Niugini, Philippines, Japan, China (Hong Kong when
independent, Macau when independent, mainland China), Taiwan, South
Korea, Fiji, Myanmar, Vietnam, Nepal.

Those are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head that I've
been to. Some just once others many times including living in several
of them for several years. I'm sure there are other countries I've
forgotten. Benin just came to mind. And Spain. And Malaysia. Does
Monaco count? Should I omit Philippines and NIgeria because of so much
English? I already left out England, Australia, Singapore and other
primarily English-speaking countries.

Are those enough comparisons?

It has nothing to do with people "falling on their knees" but rather
simple common courtesy.

Barry Gold wrote:

I've even gotten good service from taxi drivers, although I've
also gotten such *bad* service that I had to have the concierge
send them away (e.g., arriving 45 min. early for a pre-arranged
appointment and expecting me to pay for waiting time -- I just had

I've had bad service from taxi drivers in a lot of countries. Sadly,
especially for the honest members of the trade, it does seem to attract
a lot of dishonest people.

For that reason, I tend to avoid taxis where possible and use public
transport instead. Cheaper as well, usually.

Neil

In article .com,
says...

Phoenix wrote:
In article . com,


As compared to what other non-English country? If you've only blared
away in France, expecting everyone to fall on their knees for you, then
you don't have much to compare the country to.

Portugal, Angola, DR Congo, Nigeria, Benin, Morocco, Kazakhstan,
Germany, Italy, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Russia, Latvia, Thailand,
Indonesia, Papua Niugini, Philippines, Japan, China (Hong Kong when
independent, Macau when independent, mainland China), Taiwan, South
Korea, Fiji, Myanmar, Vietnam, Nepal.

Those are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head that I've
been to. Some just once others many times including living in several
of them for several years. I'm sure there are other countries I've
forgotten. Benin just came to mind. And Spain. And Malaysia. Does
Monaco count? Should I omit Philippines and NIgeria because of so much
English? I already left out England, Australia, Singapore and other
primarily English-speaking countries.

Are those enough comparisons?

I don't believe a word of it. What did you do, open up an atlas and
start typing?

bel



It has nothing to do with people "falling on their knees" but rather
simple common courtesy.

On 17 Oct 2006 23:37:37 -0700, "Tchiowa" wrote:


Phoenix wrote:
In article . com,


As compared to what other non-English country? If you've only blared
away in France, expecting everyone to fall on their knees for you, then
you don't have much to compare the country to.

Portugal, Angola, DR Congo, Nigeria, Benin, Morocco, Kazakhstan,
Germany, Italy, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Russia, Latvia, Thailand,
Indonesia, Papua Niugini, Philippines, Japan, China (Hong Kong when
independent, Macau when independent, mainland China), Taiwan, South
Korea, Fiji, Myanmar, Vietnam, Nepal.

Those are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head that I've
been to. Some just once others many times including living in several
of them for several years. I'm sure there are other countries I've
forgotten. Benin just came to mind. And Spain. And Malaysia. Does
Monaco count? Should I omit Philippines and NIgeria because of so much
English? I already left out England, Australia, Singapore and other
primarily English-speaking countries.

Are those enough comparisons?

It has nothing to do with people "falling on their knees" but rather
simple common courtesy.


Normally a "comparison" offers two or more scenarios for contrast.
Other than boasting of all your travels, did you have a point?

Phoenix wrote:
In article .com,
says...

Phoenix wrote:
In article . com,


As compared to what other non-English country? If you've only blared
away in France, expecting everyone to fall on their knees for you, then
you don't have much to compare the country to.

Portugal, Angola, DR Congo, Nigeria, Benin, Morocco, Kazakhstan,
Germany, Italy, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Russia, Latvia, Thailand,
Indonesia, Papua Niugini, Philippines, Japan, China (Hong Kong when
independent, Macau when independent, mainland China), Taiwan, South
Korea, Fiji, Myanmar, Vietnam, Nepal.

Those are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head that I've
been to. Some just once others many times including living in several
of them for several years. I'm sure there are other countries I've
forgotten. Benin just came to mind. And Spain. And Malaysia. Does
Monaco count? Should I omit Philippines and NIgeria because of so much
English? I already left out England, Australia, Singapore and other
primarily English-speaking countries.

Are those enough comparisons?

I don't believe a word of it. What did you do, open up an atlas and
start typing?

No. I've spent the last roughly 20 years living and working outside the
US. Plus a lot of personal travel. Sorry if you can't handle that
concept.

Bob Ward wrote:
On 17 Oct 2006 23:37:37 -0700, "Tchiowa" wrote:


Phoenix wrote:
In article . com,


As compared to what other non-English country? If you've only blared
away in France, expecting everyone to fall on their knees for you, then
you don't have much to compare the country to.

Portugal, Angola, DR Congo, Nigeria, Benin, Morocco, Kazakhstan,
Germany, Italy, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Russia, Latvia, Thailand,
Indonesia, Papua Niugini, Philippines, Japan, China (Hong Kong when
independent, Macau when independent, mainland China), Taiwan, South
Korea, Fiji, Myanmar, Vietnam, Nepal.

Those are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head that I've
been to. Some just once others many times including living in several
of them for several years. I'm sure there are other countries I've
forgotten. Benin just came to mind. And Spain. And Malaysia. Does
Monaco count? Should I omit Philippines and NIgeria because of so much
English? I already left out England, Australia, Singapore and other
primarily English-speaking countries.

Are those enough comparisons?

It has nothing to do with people "falling on their knees" but rather
simple common courtesy.

Normally a "comparison" offers two or more scenarios for contrast.
Other than boasting of all your travels, did you have a point?

Yes, that the French treat English speakers more rudely than people do
in any other country. Try reading the post in context.

I responded to a post where I was asked to compare with "what other
country" so I listed the countries I'm comparing with based on personal
experience. If you consider travelling a lot to be "boasting" perhaps
you shouldn't be on a "travel" group in Usenet.

Barry Gold writes:

Overall, I've found the French helpful if you will just take the
trouble to learn a few hundred words of French and use them.

You're aware, of course, that the international language of aviation
is -- wait for it -- English? I see no reason why that should be
limited to just radio communication. I submit that anyone in the
employ of an international air carrier whose job involves dealing
with passengers should have at least a working knowledge of English.

(The international language of diplomacy remains French, so it isn't
as though Francophones have been dissed or marginalized.)


OTOH, if you think that they ought to speak English because that
is the right and proper language, you are likely to get what you
deserve.

You mean, to be addressed in English? That's what *I* think I'd
deserve. Your mileage, as they say, may vary.

Americans are commonly criticized for expecting people to speak
English...in our own country. Anyone who expresses annoyance at
not being able to understand (or be understood by) an immigrant
when conducting business does so at the risk of being set upon
and denounced as a bigot, a xenophobe, and the rest of the usual
liberal laundry list of disparaging terms.

But oddly, the same thing is tolerated, and even admired, in the
French. Especially in the context of dealing with Americans.
Heads they win, tails we lose. "If you'd only just give in a
little, you'd be surprised how pleasant and helpful they can be."

Yeah, but first they have to take their pound (okay, half-kilogram)
of flesh by watching us struggle with _their_ language. There's
always that little ritual to be gotten through first, before the
*******s pull the stick out of their _derriere_ and magically become
so helpful and accomodating.

Why is it always we Americans who are expected to adjust, and never
people of other nationalities? What's up with that?



Geoff

--
"Substitution of a 'y' for any other vowel in a child's name
is a HUGE red 'brat' flag. Ditto for 'ee' substituted for
any ending long-e sound." -- Rob Novak

Phoenix writes:

That's true in any foreign country, as far as I've noticed. Learn
to string together a few sentences and people suddenly start to
smile and warmly help you out. I have no idea why France catches
hell for it when the same is true everywhere.

Maybe because it's a matter of degree, and the French have earned a
reputation for doing it a lot more than anybody else does?


Can you guys imagine a Russian coming to the US and getting bent
out of shape because no one will answer him in his language? A
bit psycho, no? Well, that's how the British and the US tourists
act a lot of the time in foreign countries.

English is much more of a (irony alert) _lingua franca_ than Russian
(or even French) is. If I were Russian, I'd certainly expect Russian
to be understood if I traveled to Eastern Europe.



Geoff

--
"Substitution of a 'y' for any other vowel in a child's name
is a HUGE red 'brat' flag. Ditto for 'ee' substituted for
any ending long-e sound." -- Rob Novak