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#1
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Q's Yangtze Riv Cruise + China land touring in June/July
Greetings,
If you've been to China and can offer info/tips, I'd appreciate it. (Mike Cordelli, I know you went last summer, and I've read all of your posts + viewed your gorgeous pix. Hope you'll have something to say!) 1 - Recommend a Tour Company - Trying to identify organized group or custom land tour operators who use the East Queen/King or any of the Victoria ships vs. going with the all-inclusive land + cruise program offered by Viking. I've done quite a bit of research, but desire firstand feedback from fellow travelers about recommended companies bearing in mind those factors I cannot tell from looking at the printed itinerary, e.g., quality of guides; amount of time devoted to attractions (would rather see 2-3 sites in depth than 6 on the run); number of shopping stops (our preferred number being zero); and group size & demographics (we will be a group of 7+ ranging in age from 12 to a very young & fit 71 and, if we don't do a custom trip, prefer a tour of a small to medium-sized group of travelers of all ages). 2 - What about Unescorted Tours? - We normally travel independently, but need the logistical support on this one, e.g., prearranged domestic air & ground transport/transfers/accommodations/luggage handling. Consequently, it might be ideal to find an operator that provides an unescorted or "independent tour" without the daily tour agenda (we'd retain our own private guides when necessary) and meals. But, I haven't seen many of those types of tours for China. Ideas? 3 - June/July Weather - We have no choice but to take this trip in June/July. I see it will be hot, humid and, oh boy, rainy season. Can anyone elaborate on the rain--all day every day or brief tropical bursts or what? Of course, we're going to be all over the map, from Beijing to Hong Kong and the usual tourist spots in between, so I imagine the answer is "it varies," but it'd be helpful for me to have some insight. And any thoughts on suffering the heat? I am thinking there is no way we can handle a long walk on the wall.... 4 - The River Cruise: Upstream or Downstream? - Natch, the cruise companies all say "it doesn't matter." Are there pros & cons? All I can see is that upstream adds a day to your itin., which might be nice for added rest/relaxation; on the other hand, if it's a pretty slooooow experience, we might get a little stir crazy? Thanks for any and all help. Diana Ball near Houston, TX |
#2
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It has been a couple of years but I went with a group of people . The
company was "pacific bestours". They did a wonderful job and I think it was about 3 weeks. They used the victoria cruises. In my opinion a tour group is the only way to visit china at this time. although it is opening up, there are still many places one should not venture ( IMHO) The organized tour was a combination of boats buses, & planes and gave a wonderful look at this fascinating country. I think in china it is still advisible to used the company who does the package. Pacific Bestours stayed in china's better hotels and started each day with an american buffet breakfast. The majority of the meals were supplied and good as they only used governments approved restaurants. I sure it will be hot as I went in spring and it was moderately warm, and I think that's another good reason to hook up with a tour company. I think any travel agent has access to pacific bestours. "D Ball" wrote in message ... Greetings, If you've been to China and can offer info/tips, I'd appreciate it. (Mike Cordelli, I know you went last summer, and I've read all of your posts + viewed your gorgeous pix. Hope you'll have something to say!) 1 - Recommend a Tour Company - Trying to identify organized group or custom land tour operators who use the East Queen/King or any of the Victoria ships vs. going with the all-inclusive land + cruise program offered by Viking. I've done quite a bit of research, but desire firstand feedback from fellow travelers about recommended companies bearing in mind those factors I cannot tell from looking at the printed itinerary, e.g., quality of guides; amount of time devoted to attractions (would rather see 2-3 sites in depth than 6 on the run); number of shopping stops (our preferred number being zero); and group size & demographics (we will be a group of 7+ ranging in age from 12 to a very young & fit 71 and, if we don't do a custom trip, prefer a tour of a small to medium-sized group of travelers of all ages). 2 - What about Unescorted Tours? - We normally travel independently, but need the logistical support on this one, e.g., prearranged domestic air & ground transport/transfers/accommodations/luggage handling. Consequently, it might be ideal to find an operator that provides an unescorted or "independent tour" without the daily tour agenda (we'd retain our own private guides when necessary) and meals. But, I haven't seen many of those types of tours for China. Ideas? 3 - June/July Weather - We have no choice but to take this trip in June/July. I see it will be hot, humid and, oh boy, rainy season. Can anyone elaborate on the rain--all day every day or brief tropical bursts or what? Of course, we're going to be all over the map, from Beijing to Hong Kong and the usual tourist spots in between, so I imagine the answer is "it varies," but it'd be helpful for me to have some insight. And any thoughts on suffering the heat? I am thinking there is no way we can handle a long walk on the wall.... 4 - The River Cruise: Upstream or Downstream? - Natch, the cruise companies all say "it doesn't matter." Are there pros & cons? All I can see is that upstream adds a day to your itin., which might be nice for added rest/relaxation; on the other hand, if it's a pretty slooooow experience, we might get a little stir crazy? Thanks for any and all help. Diana Ball near Houston, TX |
#3
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D Ball wrote:
1 - Recommend a Tour Company - Trying to identify organized group or custom land tour operators who use the East Queen/King or any of the Victoria ships vs. going with the all-inclusive land + cruise program offered by Viking. We visited China with a tour offered by our alumni association. They, in turn, used the services of Gohagan Tours. I don't believe this company offers tours to the general public. If you can travel with Gohagan through your alumni association, you can expect a superior experience: excellent choice of hotels, good food, local and national guides in addition to your Gohagan rep, and an interesting itinerary without too many shopping stops. (By the time I read farther down your post, I saw that you will be traveling with a mix of ages, including children. The alumni group would not be a good option for you.) In the commercial category, I can recommend Pacific Delights in the mid- price range and Abercrombie and Kent in the high price range. I'm sure there are families touring China, but my memory tells me that the majority of tourists were adults. This will make your search for an appropriate pre-existing tour package more challenging. I've done quite a bit of research, but desire firstand feedback from fellow travelers about recommended companies bearing in mind those factors I cannot tell from looking at the printed itinerary, e.g., quality of guides I recommend you specifically ask if the guides from the Chinese tourist agency and if your group would have both a national guide who would accompany you throughout the entire trip in addition to local guides who are knowledgeable for each destination. (A representative from the tour company might be useful.) If you get specialists rather than relying exclusively on the generalist -- or worse, relying on the company-provided guide -- you probably won't have the highest quality guide. By that I mean the guide will give a canned and probably superficial explanation. 2 - What about Unescorted Tours? - We normally travel independently, but need the logistical support on this one, e.g., prearranged domestic air & ground transport/transfers/accommodations/luggage handling. Consequently, it might be ideal to find an operator that provides an unescorted or "independent tour" without the daily tour agenda (we'd retain our own private guides when necessary) and meals. But, I haven't seen many of those types of tours for China. Ideas? The lack of English in China makes wholly independent touring less typical. However, with varying degrees of effort, you can create the type of tour you're used to. The most expensive way to do this is to contact Abercrombie and Kent who will design a personalized tour for our group. Go to their web site and click on the "Tailor Made link." If you're willing to be heavily involved, I believe the Chinese Tourist Agency will work with individuals and you can put together a personal tour that meets your specifications. As for your reluctance to include shopping stops, I can only say that we shared your reluctance and viewed our stops at a rug factory, cloisone factory, and silk factory with skepticism in advance. Happily, we found the tours to be sufficiently interesting that we did not regret the time spent there. Incidentally, we traveled to China with no expectation of doing much shopping. This was the common perception of the people in our group. We -- along with everyone else -- ended up buying so much that people were shipping things home along with way and buying extra suitcases. We now sleep nightly under our silk comforters and a tiny silk rug is now hanging on our wall and that's only the big stuff. 4 - The River Cruise: Upstream or Downstream? - Natch, the cruise companies all say "it doesn't matter." Are there pros & cons? All I can see is that upstream adds a day to your itin., which might be nice for added rest/relaxation; on the other hand, if it's a pretty slooooow experience, we might get a little stir crazy? It's not clear how much upstream or downstream matters any more with the partial completion of the dam. The current may already be sufficiently slowed that the two trips are almost identical. We traveled upstream -- pre-dam -- and would have preferred to have cut one day off our five-day trip for the same distance downstream. Is *is* a slow experience! There are things to do while on the boat and there are excursions just as there would be on any regular cruise. Nevertheless, I would minimize my time on the river and spend no more than three-four days on the rive because it was the least interesting and least comfortable part of the trip. Karen Selwyn |
#4
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Steve,
Thank you for taking the time to offer your personal recommendation of Pacific Bestours. This is exactly the kind of idea I was seeking. I am going to spend some time on their website. Diana "Steve" wrote in message news:4xXPd.68835$tU6.50962@edtnps91... It has been a couple of years but I went with a group of people . The company was "pacific bestours". They did a wonderful job and I think it was |
#5
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Karen,
As always, I appreciate your experienced advice. I had already considered alumni & similar touring groups, but they are wise--none are taking folks to China in the summer! Indeed, I have been forced to eliminate several good contendors because of the off-season timing of our trip. Hence, one reason I asked for input from folks like Steve and you. Thank you so much for your explanatory comments about both guides and shopping. I will be able to ask better questions based on your remarks. I am laughing about the shopping. I am not a shopper, either...so I guess I should be prepared to be surprised?! My husband, OTOH, loves to shop, so I really need to be prepared to deal with is the "How to Get it Home" issue! I, too, had heard positive things about Pacific Delights, so with your second, I will definitely take a look at them. We used A&K on the Nile last year and were spoiled by the quality of their guides, as well as everything they did. But that was just the 4 of us for a relatively short leg of a long trip. With China, I'm looking at 7+ for up to 3 weeks...so unless I can drive a very hard bargain, I don't think we'll get to go the A&K way. (Just FYI, speaking of high end travel suppliers, R. Crusoe & Son are ex-A&K'ers who have put together some incredible tours to China and elsewhere. I always get ideas from looking at the itineraries & program offerings of the luxury suppliers.) The kid factor is mostly a non-issue. Young teens aren't much different than adults when it comes to travel. Ours have traveled a bit & are pretty good road warriors. Their presence simply motivates me to plug in some free time so they can both participate in all of the programmed activities & take a couple of hours here and there to do "normal things" like sleep late, rent bikes, hang by the hotel pool, check out the local shopping, etc. Unscheduled down time is not necessarily a bad thing for adult travelers, either! Question: Could you be more specific in stating why the river trip was "the least interesting and least comfortable part of the trip?" I was definitely looking at it as a way to provide some much-needed R 'n R, but.... Thanks, again, Karen. Diana |
#6
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The tour company - I'm really not sure that there are that many differences,
some all use the same people over on the china side, they just farm this part to this tour guide, the river cruise to Victoria, etc. We were with Pacific Delight (loved them) and there were people from Uniworld along with us part of the trip (different busses) and they loved it, etc. Handling it all as one thing makes it easier for you, one point to call if there is an issue, etc. Our guides were all excellent, but again, they were not employees of the tour company, but locally hired people. Business was very slow, they were thrilled to have us, can't say it would be the same if they had groups every day (one guide told us it would be three weeks before she had another group) On our trip, the shopping stops were actually quite good, there were two real ones, and one at probably the driver's uncle's or something. The silk factory tour was wonderful, the other real one was good. The driver's uncle was a guy selling pearls, took like ten minutes. I looked at it this way, selling to the rest of the world is such a major part of their economy, that it made sense to see the factories Ask your operator what their policy is. Our group would have been two, the wife and I for an extra $100, which would have been great. At the last minute they got four or five others, so the group was still a very decent six or seven. Because there were not lots of people the groups were smaller, but if you check with the operator they will tell you their policy. Unescorted Tours - I would love to do that, but there is still lots of handholding unless you speak the language. English was not all that popular of a language for many. Again, it's probably with the same guides, I think each area only has a few "official" guides available. The heat - The spicy food helps way more then you would expect, and lots of liquids, which are available everywhere. Bottled water (the only way to drink water) is incredibly inexpensive and something you can bargain, and ice cream bars are everywhere. The busses are also air conditioned, about the only thing that is are the tour busses. Hotels, on the other hand was a different story, some considered Air Conditioning to be what we could call a fan. We could have spent weeks on the river, I don't think you would so stir crazy, it's up to you how active or how much you want to just sit back and watch the world go by. "D Ball" wrote in message ... Greetings, If you've been to China and can offer info/tips, I'd appreciate it. (Mike Cordelli, I know you went last summer, and I've read all of your posts + viewed your gorgeous pix. Hope you'll have something to say!) 1 - Recommend a Tour Company - Trying to identify organized group or custom land tour operators who use the East Queen/King or any of the Victoria ships vs. going with the all-inclusive land + cruise program offered by Viking. I've done quite a bit of research, but desire firstand feedback from fellow travelers about recommended companies bearing in mind those factors I cannot tell from looking at the printed itinerary, e.g., quality of guides; amount of time devoted to attractions (would rather see 2-3 sites in depth than 6 on the run); number of shopping stops (our preferred number being zero); and group size & demographics (we will be a group of 7+ ranging in age from 12 to a very young & fit 71 and, if we don't do a custom trip, prefer a tour of a small to medium-sized group of travelers of all ages). 2 - What about Unescorted Tours? - We normally travel independently, but need the logistical support on this one, e.g., prearranged domestic air & ground transport/transfers/accommodations/luggage handling. Consequently, it might be ideal to find an operator that provides an unescorted or "independent tour" without the daily tour agenda (we'd retain our own private guides when necessary) and meals. But, I haven't seen many of those types of tours for China. Ideas? 3 - June/July Weather - We have no choice but to take this trip in June/July. I see it will be hot, humid and, oh boy, rainy season. Can anyone elaborate on the rain--all day every day or brief tropical bursts or what? Of course, we're going to be all over the map, from Beijing to Hong Kong and the usual tourist spots in between, so I imagine the answer is "it varies," but it'd be helpful for me to have some insight. And any thoughts on suffering the heat? I am thinking there is no way we can handle a long walk on the wall.... 4 - The River Cruise: Upstream or Downstream? - Natch, the cruise companies all say "it doesn't matter." Are there pros & cons? All I can see is that upstream adds a day to your itin., which might be nice for added rest/relaxation; on the other hand, if it's a pretty slooooow experience, we might get a little stir crazy? Thanks for any and all help. Diana Ball near Houston, TX |
#7
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D Ball wrote:
(Just FYI, speaking of high end travel suppliers, R. Crusoe & Son are ex-A&K'ers who have put together some incredible tours to China and elsewhere. I always get ideas from looking at the itineraries & program offerings of the luxury suppliers.) Thanks for this reference. My husband and I are considering a trip to Asia in '06 -- that's about as specific as we've gotten -- and we've feel much the same way about independent travel for our trip as you feel about China. Question: Could you be more specific in stating why the river trip was "the least interesting and least comfortable part of the trip?" I was definitely looking at it as a way to provide some much-needed R 'n R, but.... Sure. We cruised upriver from Wuhan to Chongqing, that's five nights on the river. The landscape was flat and relatively uninteresting from Wuhan to Chenglingji, our first port of call the next day. I could have happily done without that entire day spent on the river. The last day on the river was, again, relatively uninteresting. The scenery began to be more interesting the second day on the river once we entered Xiling Gorge, the first of the three gorges. Our port call at the Three Gorges Dam itself was fascinating. Our most impressive sight came as we sailed alongside the end of the dam portion that had been completed at the time. Being at river level gave us a sense of the scale of the project that we did not get from above. You will ride up the series of locks that are now functional with the completion of the first phase of the dam, so you will not have the experience we had sailing alongside. Continuing up river and sailing through all three gorges was appealing for both scenic and sociological reasons. In particular, we sailed before the flooding began and there were markers at two heights along the cliffs. The lower marker showed where the water would rise when the first phase of the dam was completed. (This has already occurred.) The second marker showed the expected water level in 2009, at the completion of the project and the full flooding. We were interested in the abandoned communities and structures along the river and taken with the beauty of the gorges. However, I didn't need 2 1/2 days of scenery that was somewhat repetitive. You will find the gorge less interesting as the water level creeps up. One day, we took a particularly exciting excursion in small motorized sampans up a branch off the Yangtze called the Three Small Gorges. To some extent the scenery didn't change, but seeing the cliffs from down on the river level and the watery speed of the sampan ride made the experience memorable. (Our guides allowed each person to spend some time riding in the front of the sampan for a particular thrill. We changed position as the boat moved so changing location was itself a bit of an adventure.) The port calls are interesting but they are brief compared to the travel time to get there. In addition, compared to the rich and interesting stops in Beijing or Xian or Shanghai, the appeal of these stops is somewhat limited. (I wonder if one of the stops will still be the food market in Wanxian. With all the new information about flu jumping from species to species, travelers are being warned to stay away from close contact with live poultry in China. We were up close and personal in the Wanxian food market. The shoppers select the live chicken, goose, duck for dinner and the obliging seller either slaughters the animal or sends home a live animal for the purchaser to do the deed.) We cruised on the newest of the M.S. Victoria ships, then considered the nicest boat on the river. The accommodations were spartan but adequate, and you should be prepared to enter into the spirit of the trip. Perhaps the biggest problem with the accommodations on the boat is the contrast between the boat's standards and the standards of the 5-star hotels throughout the rest of the trip. In China, there is essentially no middle ground when it comes to hotels. As for the entertainment on the Yangtze, expect nightly shows that make the staff show on HAL seem professional. One night, the entertainment was a passenger talent show and the awful performers were as much fun as the wonderful performers. The food on board wasn't bad, but it wasn't great. There was usually one dish that was really excellent. In general, the chef tried to Americanize most of the Chinese offerings along with offering American choices. My husband and I were happier with the authentic food during the land portion. Interestingly, even the people who were troubled by the authenticity of the land meals weren't thrilled by the shipboard meals. The American food was generally poor. If you visit Wuhan, be absolutely certain to visit the Hubei Provincial Museum. It features ancient musical instruments that were unearthed in the tomb of a provincial governor. Museum employees give concerts on these ancient instruments and the experience was amazing. By now, you may be in the "too much information" mode! Still, I hope something I've said is useful. Karen Selwyn |
#8
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Mike,
I'm so glad you weighed in--thanks for all of your "on point" & very helpful comments. Note, on your personal website, at the list of travels, you haven't added a link for your China trip. I know how it is with maintenance of personal websites. But, your China pictures are so wonderful, I just thought you might want to throw up a quick hyperlink! I will probably have more questions when I get deep into it. Thank you for now! Diana |
#9
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Karen,
Wow! I love detail, and you are a terrific writer, so this is all fascinating and helpful at the same time. Thank you for making the effort. In many respects, the Yangtze river cruise sounds very much like what we experienced on the Nile. (I commend that trip to you if you haven't made it.) As I understand it, one possible difference between the time you visited and now is the proliferation of commercial air out of Yichang? For that reason, fewer cruises go beyond Yichang now, and based on what I had already read about that stretch east to Wuhan and beyond toward Shanghai, but confirmed by your remarks, we definitely plan to limit our cruise to the Yichang-Chongqing segment. It is just that going upstream gives you a tad bit more time (adds one day/night), and I think we would like that, if nothing more than to simply be able to curl up in a corner with a book, or sleep in an hour later, without feeling guilty. If I could impose on your time again, did you do the Guilan/Li River/Yangshuo jaunt? It is rather common on itineraries, and many people rave about it. But that's 2 more days on an already long first trip to Asia. Good luck in narrowing down your Asia '06 trip to manageable size! I see so many enticing options. Diana |
#10
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Thanks, you are 100% right, I have some updating to do.
"D Ball" wrote in message ... Mike, I'm so glad you weighed in--thanks for all of your "on point" & very helpful comments. Note, on your personal website, at the list of travels, you haven't added a link for your China trip. I know how it is with maintenance of personal websites. But, your China pictures are so wonderful, I just thought you might want to throw up a quick hyperlink! I will probably have more questions when I get deep into it. Thank you for now! Diana |
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