A Travel and vacations forum. TravelBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » TravelBanter forum » Travelling Style » Air travel
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Many ex-pat pilots are out of work in China because of MAX 737



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old December 20th, 2019, 06:05 PM posted to soc.culture.china,talk.politics.misc,rec.travel.air,rec.aviation,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Byker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 79
Default Many ex-pat pilots are out of work in China because of MAX 737

"stoney" wrote in message ...

Nowadays, all these new planes do not need white men pilots. As long the
standard training is applied to everyone, any local pilot can fly it, per
se.

The Max plane that crashed in Indonesia was piloted by the pilot from
Indonesia. When the plane crashed, Boeing blamed the incompetence of the
pilot which was an Indonesian, and also poor local maintenance crew on the
plane.

The FAA also believed so and therefore nothing much of the investigation
of the plane maker was further on that crash, until This Lion Air was new
had operated 400 hours in service only. The Ethiopian airline crashed on
March 2019. The crashed Ethiopian airliner was only 4 month old.


The Ethiopian plane was also piloted by foreign nationals who spoke English
as a second language. Why is it that there were no Max crashes involving
U.S. airlines in the prior 18 months?

  #2  
Old December 20th, 2019, 07:15 PM posted to soc.culture.china,talk.politics.misc,rec.travel.air,rec.aviation,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
George
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10
Default Many ex-pat pilots are out of work in China because ofMAX 737

On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 12:05:37 -0600
"Byker" wrote:

"stoney" wrote in message ...

Nowadays, all these new planes do not need white men pilots. As
long the standard training is applied to everyone, any local pilot
can fly it, per se.

The Max plane that crashed in Indonesia was piloted by the pilot
from Indonesia. When the plane crashed, Boeing blamed the
incompetence of the pilot which was an Indonesian, and also poor
local maintenance crew on the plane.

The FAA also believed so and therefore nothing much of the
investigation of the plane maker was further on that crash, until
This Lion Air was new had operated 400 hours in service only. The
Ethiopian airline crashed on March 2019. The crashed Ethiopian
airliner was only 4 month old.


The Ethiopian plane was also piloted by foreign nationals who spoke
English as a second language. Why is it that there were no Max
crashes involving U.S. airlines in the prior 18 months?


What a bloody racist.
There are thousands of aircrews not white who go out every day, do
their sectors and go home same as the white aircrews

  #3  
Old December 20th, 2019, 10:03 PM posted to soc.culture.china,talk.politics.misc,rec.travel.air,rec.aviation,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Byker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 79
Default Many ex-pat pilots are out of work in China because of MAX 737

"George" wrote in message ...

What a bloody racist.
There are thousands of aircrews not white who go out every day, do their
sectors and go home same as the white aircrews


And they've been properly trained, something
turd-world ********s can't afford...
  #4  
Old December 21st, 2019, 02:47 AM posted to soc.culture.china,talk.politics.misc,rec.travel.air,rec.aviation,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
PhantomView
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16
Default Many ex-pat pilots are out of work in China because of MAX 737

On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 12:05:37 -0600, "Byker" wrote:

"stoney" wrote in message ...

Nowadays, all these new planes do not need white men pilots. As long the
standard training is applied to everyone, any local pilot can fly it, per
se.

The Max plane that crashed in Indonesia was piloted by the pilot from
Indonesia. When the plane crashed, Boeing blamed the incompetence of the
pilot which was an Indonesian, and also poor local maintenance crew on the
plane.

The FAA also believed so and therefore nothing much of the investigation
of the plane maker was further on that crash, until This Lion Air was new
had operated 400 hours in service only. The Ethiopian airline crashed on
March 2019. The crashed Ethiopian airliner was only 4 month old.


The Ethiopian plane was also piloted by foreign nationals who spoke English
as a second language. Why is it that there were no Max crashes involving
U.S. airlines in the prior 18 months?


I think Boeing may have had a 'cultural bias' built into
its design and instruction manual - one that put non-
english-speakers at a disadvantage. The fatal flaw
was hard to understand in and of itself, requiring some
counter-intuitive corrective measures. By the time the
foreign pilots could "think like an American" it was too
late.

It was a "smartplane" feature ... but implemented VERY
badly. No automated system should EVER fight the
pilot. It would be like an automotive cruise control applying
more throttle when you hit the brakes. The instant the
pilot put hands on the wheel the anti-stall feature should
have cut off entirely.

And now it is even WORSE for Boeing. Not only will there
be a few months more delay in re-certifying the Max (seems
there were other issues too) but this morning their new Orion
space capsule went to ****. Apparently somebody did not
set the clock correctly .......... no doubt heads are rolling down
the corridors at the office ...............

I guess this will mean two or three additional un-manned
flights will be necessary to prove they got it right. They
do think they can retrieve the capsule from its weird orbit
however so at least they be able to do a post-mortem.

The SpaceX capsule is also in limbo. It did get to the
space station, did dock, did return as intended - but
during its post-mortem/refurb a terrible design flaw
in the retro engine design became clear when one of
them exploded. That COULD have happend in space
or during re-entry, with people in the thing. Not good.

So, it looks like we will NOT have a homegrown way
to send people into space again until maybe the latter
half of 2020, maybe 2021. I sure as hell would not trust
the products of EITHER company until they got quite
a number of full successes under their belts. Pack
the things with TV dinners for the space station ...
may as well get some use out of them during the
tests. (millenials+ may not know what a "TV dinner"
actually was ... I do recall the peas always tasted
of aluminum ...)

  #5  
Old December 22nd, 2019, 03:45 PM posted to soc.culture.china,talk.politics.misc,rec.travel.air,rec.aviation,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Byker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 79
Default Many ex-pat pilots are out of work in China because of MAX 737

"PhantomView" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 12:05:37 -0600, "Byker" wrote:

The Ethiopian plane was also piloted by foreign nationals who spoke
English as a second language. Why is it that there were no Max crashes
involving U.S. airlines in the prior 18 months?


I think Boeing may have had a 'cultural bias' built into
its design and instruction manual - one that put non-
english-speakers at a disadvantage. The fatal flaw
was hard to understand in and of itself, requiring some
counter-intuitive corrective measures. By the time the
foreign pilots could "think like an American" it was too
late.

It was a "smartplane" feature ... but implemented VERY
badly. No automated system should EVER fight the
pilot. It would be like an automotive cruise control applying
more throttle when you hit the brakes. The instant the
pilot put hands on the wheel the anti-stall feature should
have cut off entirely.


It's just the latest in a series of embarrassing (and often fatal) results
whenever a "new and improved" model is put on the market, like British
Midlands flight 92 ("Do I shut down the left or right engine?"):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoUPZ_KJrWc

Also: "Airbus is ready for pilotless jets - are you?"
Nope: https://phys.org/news/2019-06-airbus...ess-jets-.html

What happens when automation goes psycho:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qantas_Flight_72

https://www.internetvictory.org/qant...isaster-qf-72/

https://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...c252ae2168b327



I do recall the peas always tasted of aluminum ...)


No doubt the Millennials' parents remember what
happened when they tried to microwave them ;-)

  #6  
Old December 23rd, 2019, 02:29 AM posted to soc.culture.china,talk.politics.misc,rec.travel.air,rec.aviation,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
PhantomView
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16
Default Many ex-pat pilots are out of work in China because of MAX 737

On Sun, 22 Dec 2019 09:45:32 -0600, "Byker" wrote:

"PhantomView" wrote in message
.. .

On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 12:05:37 -0600, "Byker" wrote:

The Ethiopian plane was also piloted by foreign nationals who spoke
English as a second language. Why is it that there were no Max crashes
involving U.S. airlines in the prior 18 months?


I think Boeing may have had a 'cultural bias' built into
its design and instruction manual - one that put non-
english-speakers at a disadvantage. The fatal flaw
was hard to understand in and of itself, requiring some
counter-intuitive corrective measures. By the time the
foreign pilots could "think like an American" it was too
late.

It was a "smartplane" feature ... but implemented VERY
badly. No automated system should EVER fight the
pilot. It would be like an automotive cruise control applying
more throttle when you hit the brakes. The instant the
pilot put hands on the wheel the anti-stall feature should
have cut off entirely.


It's just the latest in a series of embarrassing (and often fatal) results
whenever a "new and improved" model is put on the market, like British
Midlands flight 92 ("Do I shut down the left or right engine?"):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoUPZ_KJrWc

Also: "Airbus is ready for pilotless jets - are you?"
Nope: https://phys.org/news/2019-06-airbus...ess-jets-.html

What happens when automation goes psycho:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qantas_Flight_72

https://www.internetvictory.org/qant...isaster-qf-72/

https://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...c252ae2168b327



I do wonder though, if the plane had been completely automatic
would there have been an issue ? In this particular case, I would
say "probably yes" because the anti-stall system engaged far
too near the ground. Give its way, the flight path would have been
"corrected" about 1000 feet underground. The pilots knew there
was not a real problem, knew what to do, but the automation
fought them to the end.

Likely there were a lot MORE screwups in the software, the
reason it is taking so long to get the planes re-certified.
Software, especially "intelligent" software, can be very hard
to de-bug ... but Boeing wanted to start selling planes RIGHT
NOW. I await some whistleblowers to come out and claim
their serious concerns were ignored so Boeing could rush
the plane to the market.

For the near future, IMHO there should be NO software in
these planes that can in any way affect its flight systems.
Warnings, maybe suggestions, yes - but let the humans
do the actual flying. Leave it at the old-fashioned "hold
course/speed/altitude" auto-pilot systems ... they work.



I do recall the peas always tasted of aluminum ...)


No doubt the Millennials' parents remember what
happened when they tried to microwave them ;-)


OOOH-Yea ! :-)

Some folks popped the original "Jiffy Pop" things in
there - aluminum pan covered by aluminum foil ....

Nowadays the successors come in hard plastic trays.
The peas no longer taste like aluminum. Do not have
much taste at all actually.

Oh, for funzies, put one of those empty trays in the
microwave and plop a CD or DVD disk on top,
recording side up. Then hit the power for about three
seconds and no more. The result is actually rather
beautiful, artistic, a "frozen lightning" effect.


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Newark - China How well do laptop connections work CLK Air travel 2 February 5th, 2007 08:45 AM
Advice on moving to china to work tim \(back at home\) Asia 8 May 7th, 2006 05:39 PM
A great opportunity to work in China\ Grande Opportunitee de travailler en Chine [email protected] Europe 0 March 10th, 2006 10:59 AM
Alaska Marine Pilots at Work Mark O. Polo Cruises 0 December 16th, 2005 02:34 AM
United to outsource maintenance work to China Casey Air travel 3 September 1st, 2005 04:38 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2020 TravelBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.