Using mobiles in an aeroplane... NOT dangerous after all! (apparently)

In article , Miss L. Toe says...


"Tristán White" wrote in message
.. .
I've been reading about this in various places, that they have found
out that private cellular mobile phones do NOT affect flight controls,
that this information is erroneous. Some report has come out.


So now the question is will people who talk loudly into their cell phones on
planes be more or less annoying than people who recline their seats ???

I vote more annoying - especially if I am trying to sleep (in my reclined
seat).



Babies! You forgot to compare them to babies! ;-)

Banty

In article , Miss L. Toe says...


"Tristán White" wrote in message
.. .
I've been reading about this in various places, that they have found
out that private cellular mobile phones do NOT affect flight controls,
that this information is erroneous. Some report has come out.


So now the question is will people who talk loudly into their cell phones on
planes be more or less annoying than people who recline their seats ???

I vote more annoying - especially if I am trying to sleep (in my reclined
seat).



Babies! You forgot to compare them to babies! ;-)

Banty

In article , Ian
Stirling writes
In uk.telecom.mobile nobody wrote:
snip
The tests that have been made and which will lead to mobile phone service in
2006. But it requres the installation of what is called a picocell
(essentially an antenna) inside the cabin. This will allow the phones to
operate are a much lower power level and their emissions won't reach the
ground.

The plane will relay calls over satellite back to the ground. And tel'll
probably ding you for mobile roaming fees, but that will be charged to your
mobile phone bill.

Idly wondering what will happen if the phone is locked to a network other
than the picocell one.
Surely it'll go to full power and start pinging away at whatever networks
it can reach outside the plane?

Perhaps a world-wide frequency band, a small extension or even DECT
perhaps?, is required for on plane use Needn't be that wide, just enough
for a few conversations up in da skie.


--
Tony Sayer

In article , Ian
Stirling writes
In uk.telecom.mobile nobody wrote:
snip
The tests that have been made and which will lead to mobile phone service in
2006. But it requres the installation of what is called a picocell
(essentially an antenna) inside the cabin. This will allow the phones to
operate are a much lower power level and their emissions won't reach the
ground.

The plane will relay calls over satellite back to the ground. And tel'll
probably ding you for mobile roaming fees, but that will be charged to your
mobile phone bill.

Idly wondering what will happen if the phone is locked to a network other
than the picocell one.
Surely it'll go to full power and start pinging away at whatever networks
it can reach outside the plane?

Perhaps a world-wide frequency band, a small extension or even DECT
perhaps?, is required for on plane use Needn't be that wide, just enough
for a few conversations up in da skie.


--
Tony Sayer

Ian Stirling wrote:
If I was to buy a small ocean-going yaught, equip it with a satellite
uplink and a GSM base station with several high-gain antennas that I
pointed at airplanes passing over in the flight path I was parked next
to, is it possible to tweak the range further, at the expense of
capacity?

With current GSM, no. With next generation GSM (UMTS) yes.

GSM uses a time division multiplexing. A channel is divided in an equal number
of time slots (I think 8). When you're assigned time slot 3, you're only
supposed to send/receive data during that one short period every second.

Problem arises when you are too far: by the time the signal your phone sent
during time slot 3 travels to reach the antenna, the antenna is already
listening to time slot 4.

UMTS uses a collision detection scheme (cdma) and not time slots, so it is not
so distance sensitive.

Now, there are some networks which did tweak range of existing GSM by
essentially blocking every second slot, so that even if your signal arrives
late, it doesn't collide with that of another caller.

Ian Stirling wrote:
If I was to buy a small ocean-going yaught, equip it with a satellite
uplink and a GSM base station with several high-gain antennas that I
pointed at airplanes passing over in the flight path I was parked next
to, is it possible to tweak the range further, at the expense of
capacity?

With current GSM, no. With next generation GSM (UMTS) yes.

GSM uses a time division multiplexing. A channel is divided in an equal number
of time slots (I think 8). When you're assigned time slot 3, you're only
supposed to send/receive data during that one short period every second.

Problem arises when you are too far: by the time the signal your phone sent
during time slot 3 travels to reach the antenna, the antenna is already
listening to time slot 4.

UMTS uses a collision detection scheme (cdma) and not time slots, so it is not
so distance sensitive.

Now, there are some networks which did tweak range of existing GSM by
essentially blocking every second slot, so that even if your signal arrives
late, it doesn't collide with that of another caller.

"nobody" wrote in message
...
Miguel Cruz wrote:
I'm inclined to agree. The recliner only has one victim; the cell phone
user
has a whole blast radius. I am going to be really really upset the day
that
they start allowing this.

Actually, this may not be as bad. Aircraft noise will probably deaden
the
noise from someone talking on the phone. (unless he is seated next to
you).

What will be annoying however is if people start getting incoming calls.

Thankfully most of my flights are international,
and often over water where there are no cell towers.

Since the planes will transmit to a satelline, there is no reason
service
couldn't continue over oceans.

On my last trip to the US the info in the plane magazine regarding the
on-board satellite phones (Verizon) was that they only worked while within
the boundaries of the continental US or up to 200 miles offshore. No
mention of them being usable mid-Atlantic (thank God..!)

Ivor

"nobody" wrote in message
...
Miguel Cruz wrote:
I'm inclined to agree. The recliner only has one victim; the cell phone
user
has a whole blast radius. I am going to be really really upset the day
that
they start allowing this.

Actually, this may not be as bad. Aircraft noise will probably deaden
the
noise from someone talking on the phone. (unless he is seated next to
you).

What will be annoying however is if people start getting incoming calls.

Thankfully most of my flights are international,
and often over water where there are no cell towers.

Since the planes will transmit to a satelline, there is no reason
service
couldn't continue over oceans.

On my last trip to the US the info in the plane magazine regarding the
on-board satellite phones (Verizon) was that they only worked while within
the boundaries of the continental US or up to 200 miles offshore. No
mention of them being usable mid-Atlantic (thank God..!)

Ivor

"Jim Ley" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 23:19:32 GMT, ServiceTech wrote:

That's exactaly what I was getting at. Even if you could prove no
problems, some pilots will still disagree. And as long as that
happens, you won't see phones used during flights. The pilot has the
last say

And the airline has the last say on if they want to carry on employing
the pilot or not. It'll be a revenue stream for the airline, and a
strong marketing point. The airlines won't let pilots deny them
those.

Hmm, pilotless passenger aircraft are still some way off. I know many
pilots and *none* will allow phones in flight. The pilot has the last say
regarding aircraft *safety* and any airline rash enough to question this
will have a serious problem.

Ivor

"Jim Ley" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 23:19:32 GMT, ServiceTech wrote:

That's exactaly what I was getting at. Even if you could prove no
problems, some pilots will still disagree. And as long as that
happens, you won't see phones used during flights. The pilot has the
last say

And the airline has the last say on if they want to carry on employing
the pilot or not. It'll be a revenue stream for the airline, and a
strong marketing point. The airlines won't let pilots deny them
those.

Hmm, pilotless passenger aircraft are still some way off. I know many
pilots and *none* will allow phones in flight. The pilot has the last say
regarding aircraft *safety* and any airline rash enough to question this
will have a serious problem.

Ivor