Using mobiles in an aeroplane... NOT dangerous after all! (apparently)

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 19:13:46 -0000, "Ivor Jones"
wrote:

I know many
pilots and *none* will allow phones in flight.

but that's just the attitude du jour. If Airbus do the research and
say their kit has no issues with mobiles do you believe the pilots
would stick to this position like a group of witchfinders ?

I would put money on a bet that virtually every commercial flight
within Europe has at least one mobile phone switched on throughout the
duration.

Phil
--
spamcop.net address commissioned 18/06/04
Come on down !

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 19:13:46 -0000, "Ivor Jones"
wrote:

I know many
pilots and *none* will allow phones in flight.

but that's just the attitude du jour. If Airbus do the research and
say their kit has no issues with mobiles do you believe the pilots
would stick to this position like a group of witchfinders ?

I would put money on a bet that virtually every commercial flight
within Europe has at least one mobile phone switched on throughout the
duration.

Phil
--
spamcop.net address commissioned 18/06/04
Come on down !

Ivor Jones wrote:
On my last trip to the US the info in the plane magazine regarding the
on-board satellite phones (Verizon) was that they only worked while within
the boundaries of the continental US or up to 200 miles offshore.

The name "Verizon" is a good sign of why it only works over the USA. Verizon
is a telco based in the USA and it doesn't offer satellite services.

Most of the US planes are outfitted with similar systems which require land
based antennas for coverage. Reason is simple: most US traffic is domestic.

However, international airlines who do outfit their planes generally go for
the satellite services (intelsat) since their planes spend so much time over water.

However, in recent years, even US planes have been equipped with satellite
communications which provide data communications between airline operations/ATC/cockpit.

Both the Boeing and Tenzing "internet access" as well as the proposed mobile
phone have become possible because of those satellite links that are already
on the plane.

Ivor Jones wrote:
On my last trip to the US the info in the plane magazine regarding the
on-board satellite phones (Verizon) was that they only worked while within
the boundaries of the continental US or up to 200 miles offshore.

The name "Verizon" is a good sign of why it only works over the USA. Verizon
is a telco based in the USA and it doesn't offer satellite services.

Most of the US planes are outfitted with similar systems which require land
based antennas for coverage. Reason is simple: most US traffic is domestic.

However, international airlines who do outfit their planes generally go for
the satellite services (intelsat) since their planes spend so much time over water.

However, in recent years, even US planes have been equipped with satellite
communications which provide data communications between airline operations/ATC/cockpit.

Both the Boeing and Tenzing "internet access" as well as the proposed mobile
phone have become possible because of those satellite links that are already
on the plane.

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 19:13:46 -0000, "Ivor Jones"
wrote:

"Jim Ley" wrote in message
And the airline has the last say on if they want to carry on employing
the pilot or not. It'll be a revenue stream for the airline, and a
strong marketing point. The airlines won't let pilots deny them
those.

Hmm, pilotless passenger aircraft are still some way off. I know many
pilots and *none* will allow phones in flight.

But phones are always on in flights - I've hardly been on a plane
where someone I'm sitting near hasn't realised they'd left there phone
on upon arrival, so if they genuine thought there was a risk, they'd
actually do something about it.

The pilot has the last say
regarding aircraft *safety* and any airline rash enough to question this
will have a serious problem.

Any pilot who refuses to do something that is perfectly safe and
certified for use will not keep his job long.

Jim.

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 19:13:46 -0000, "Ivor Jones"
wrote:

"Jim Ley" wrote in message
And the airline has the last say on if they want to carry on employing
the pilot or not. It'll be a revenue stream for the airline, and a
strong marketing point. The airlines won't let pilots deny them
those.

Hmm, pilotless passenger aircraft are still some way off. I know many
pilots and *none* will allow phones in flight.

But phones are always on in flights - I've hardly been on a plane
where someone I'm sitting near hasn't realised they'd left there phone
on upon arrival, so if they genuine thought there was a risk, they'd
actually do something about it.

The pilot has the last say
regarding aircraft *safety* and any airline rash enough to question this
will have a serious problem.

Any pilot who refuses to do something that is perfectly safe and
certified for use will not keep his job long.

Jim.

Yeah, there's only a weak correlation between smoking & lung cancer, but
I'll be damned if I let you endanger my health in either circumstance while
trying to prove it wrong...


"Tristán White" wrote in message
...
I've been reading about this in various places, that they have found
out that private cellular mobile phones do NOT affect flight controls,
that this information is erroneous. Some report has come out.

Furthermore, I have also been told that the flight companies have
always known it's not dangerous, but that they have PRETENDED that
it's dangerous so that people don't use the expensive onboard phones
that you get on long-haul flights (International Roaming is cheaper
than these rip-off phones).

I wonder whether all the flight companies knew it was a scam and
clubbed together, or whether only a couple of them knew and the other
companies simply followed suit.

So I wonder whether in the light of all these revelations, whether we
will now have all those announcements removed? Or will they try and
brush it under the carpet and hope that not a lot of people find out
about the little scam, and end up continuing with the subterfuge? Or
will they come clean and let people use their private phones? Or will
they come clean but give another reason for not using private phones
(eg noise pollution)? Interesting isn't it!

Also, will people who were fined for disobeying regulations, such as
that guy who got arrested for texting "I love you" to his wife while
on a flight, will be able to claim their money back....

Furthermore, will this see the price of onboard phones come down
dramatically (it took me a while to come back from the shock when I
got my credit card bill back after calling my wife from the Virgin
phone in my seat when flying London to Jo'burg in 2001!)

T'will be interesting!!!

TRISTÁN


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.776 / Virus Database: 523 - Release Date: 10/12/2004

Well answered to a topic that comes up here ad nauseum...

"Steven Sumpter" wrote in message
...
Tristán White wrote:
I've been reading about this in various places, that they have found
out that private cellular mobile phones do NOT affect flight controls,
that this information is erroneous. Some report has come out.


Most planes aren't affected by mobiles, that is true. Some older planes
are, however, so don't go using your phone on any and all flights just
because you have read an article and think you know better.

A problem that still affects the use of mobiles on planes is that the
signal from a mobile high over land will reach a very broad area. Since
the same frequency is re-used many times in that area, it means that
several cells will be unable to use one of their frequencies.

Secondly the phone will be travelling extremely fast and so the cells
will have to handoff the call from cell to cell very quickly. That will
overload some systems, especially if a lot of people do it.

Thirdly the phone will have to pump up the output power to maximum to
bridge the distance from plane to ground and to get through the metal
skin of the plane. Your battery won't last very long.

Some enterprising airlines are planning to install microcells in their
planes that connect back to land via satellite or radio link. Mobiles
in planes will be able to roam onto these cells thus using much lower
power and solving the problem of blotting out frequencies across many
cells on the ground or handing off from cell to cell too quickly.
Unfortunately it also means that the airline can still set the pricing
and get a cut of the call charges.

http://theregister.co.uk/ has some details if you search.

Steve.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.776 / Virus Database: 523 - Release Date: 10/12/2004

nobody reckoned that...
UMTS uses a collision detection scheme (cdma) and not time slots, so it is not
so distance sensitive.

UMTS used WCDMA (Wideband Code Division Multiple Access) Collision
Detection does not feature in the spec anywhere!
--
www.unlockingshop.co.uk
SonyEricsson K700i unlock/unbrand - £22.50
Nokia 7600 Factory re-setting - £10
New LG / Sharp / VK / Sendo / Motorola phones added to the range

nobody reckoned that...
UMTS uses a collision detection scheme (cdma) and not time slots, so it is not
so distance sensitive.

UMTS used WCDMA (Wideband Code Division Multiple Access) Collision
Detection does not feature in the spec anywhere!
--
www.unlockingshop.co.uk
SonyEricsson K700i unlock/unbrand - £22.50
Nokia 7600 Factory re-setting - £10
New LG / Sharp / VK / Sendo / Motorola phones added to the range