Vietnam shore visit

On Sun, 01 Oct 2006 13:19:05 GMT, "John Sisker" wrote:

I have to agree with some of the responses to this original post. I
personally don't know why anyone would want to travel to Vietnam, but then
again, that's me. As most everyone knows, I can book cruises to just about
anywhere, including Vietnam as part of the schedule, if that's what a client
wants. But I would certainly discuss this with them first just to see why
they would want to go there in the first place.

Perhaps it is because Vietnam is one of the most beautiful countries on the planet. The people are
great, too.

"Patrick Danville" wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:

Also, ignore most of the posts from disgruntled vets - the place is
interesting to visit some 30 odd years after the it was carpet bombed,
phosphored and deforested.

Absolutley true. I got the chance to visit Hanoi on business in 1998.
The city was nothing like I expected -- wide boulevards, French
architecture, delicious, fascinating food, and open people. I found
the people to be curious and gracious, which is amazing considering we
carpet-bombed them.

The vets who are painting the Vietnamese people as "vicious" are wrong
wrong wrong.


That's because the bleeding hearts would not let the military win the war
and we never bombed the crap out of Hanoi.
As for the vicious part. Of course they aren't. It was just our imagination
the horrible atrocities they committed against our troops, the murders they
committed, the beheadings, the rapes, the torture and rape of a mans
daughters and wife in front of his eyes while he is tied to a post, belly
slit open and his entrails burned before his eyes. Must have been my
imagination. Sorry.
Jim

"Ken Conner" wrote in message
news:fhVTg.21034$gF3.18508@trnddc02...
"Jean O'Boyle" wrote in message
m...

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi Carl,

You can arrange a visa yourself quite easily through any embassy for
around the US$40 mark. However, check with you TA as the ship may
handle everything for you.

Also, ignore most of the posts from disgruntled vets - the place is
interesting to visit some 30 odd years after the it was carpet bombed,
phosphored and deforested. I guess they (the vets) can't get over the
fact that the most powerful nation on earth with all of the latest gear
got totally screwed by a bunch of rice farmers. I especially liked the
comment by one respondant regarding the attrocities committed by the
Vietnamese - he should take a look in his own back yard with the secret
CIA torture camps and the concentration camp in Cuba.


I know, isn't it sad that more money is spent on feeding the prisoners at
Guantanamo than is spent on feeding the military stationed there? If the
military had been allowed to fight a war as a war IS fought (yes, war is
ugly) by the politicians in Washington and the troops were supported by
the people as they should have been, it would have been won and won in a
much shorter time than it eventually lasted. But it seems that the arm
chair warriors and those sitting in their cushy jobs in Washington
mandate those decisions.

Sad that you read the rags that make the USA and the military look bad
and believe them.
Ask John McCain or any other POW about the definition of the word,"
atrocity"...Ask the wounded American Vietnam Vets about the" kindness" of
the Viet Cong and the savage way those wounds were gotten...It is evident
that you were not there or you would not speak so callously and
deprecatingly of the military who lay their lives on the line every day
for you...for you to be able to have the freedom of speech...
Again,...thanks to them. And yet they continue to do it despite people
who malign them ...like you.

--Jean

Don't forget the pompous asses that sat behind their news desks and
convinced the American public and obviously some congressmen that we were
losing the war when, in fact, the enemy was being held together only by
the attitude of the American public.


Exactly. After the Tet offensive the public was told how terribly we were
defeated and how we could no longer win. Fact was that the VC were decimated
and the NVA in the south were virtually non-existance after we kicked there
ass all the was back behind the DMZ. The North was seriously contumplating
surrender at that point but changed their attitudes after watching our news
broadcasts. How much of this reminds us of Lraq. Yes, "Mission Accomplished"
was exactly that. Our military won the war against Suddam. The insurgency
began after our media steped in and started making all the dire predictions
about this being a Vietnam and encouraged the militants to start a civil
war. Way to go media! Because of you, thousands more have again died for
your ratings.
Jim

"jim" wrote in message
.. .

"Patrick Danville" wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:

Also, ignore most of the posts from disgruntled vets - the place is
interesting to visit some 30 odd years after the it was carpet bombed,
phosphored and deforested.

Absolutley true. I got the chance to visit Hanoi on business in 1998.
The city was nothing like I expected -- wide boulevards, French
architecture, delicious, fascinating food, and open people. I found
the people to be curious and gracious, which is amazing considering we
carpet-bombed them.

The vets who are painting the Vietnamese people as "vicious" are wrong
wrong wrong.


That's because the bleeding hearts would not let the military win the war
and we never bombed the crap out of Hanoi.
As for the vicious part. Of course they aren't. It was just our
imagination the horrible atrocities they committed against our troops, the
murders they committed, the beheadings, the rapes, the torture and rape of
a mans daughters and wife in front of his eyes while he is tied to a post,
belly slit open and his entrails burned before his eyes. Must have been my
imagination. Sorry.
Jim


Don't bother Jim..........

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 01 Oct 2006 13:19:05 GMT, "John Sisker"
wrote:

I have to agree with some of the responses to this original post. I
personally don't know why anyone would want to travel to Vietnam, but
then
again, that's me. As most everyone knows, I can book cruises to just
about
anywhere, including Vietnam as part of the schedule, if that's what a
client
wants. But I would certainly discuss this with them first just to see why
they would want to go there in the first place.

Perhaps it is because Vietnam is one of the most beautiful countries on
the planet. The people are
great, too.


LOL

"Jean O'Boyle" wrote in message
m...

"Ken Conner" wrote in message
news:fhVTg.21034$gF3.18508@trnddc02...
Don't forget the pompous asses that sat behind their news desks and
convinced the American public and obviously some congressmen that we were
losing the war when, in fact, the enemy was being held together only by
the attitude of the American public.


Right on, Ken...just as it is happening now..The news media constantly
preaching garbage slanted against their own country!
How gullible can people get? Politics has gotten in the way of common
sense...I hope and pray we wake up soon, before it is too late and there
is nothing that can reverse it.

I'm including part of statement made by Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline
University School of Law, St. Paul Minnesota with some interesting facts.
It starts with:

*How Long Do We Have? *

About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new constitution
in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University
of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some
2,000 years earlier:

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a
permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until
the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from
the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always vote for the
candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with
the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal
policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship."

"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning
of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, those
nations always progressed through the following sequence:

1. From bondage to spiritual faith;
2. From spiritual faith to great courage;
3. From courage to liberty;
4. From liberty to abundance;
5. From abundance to complacency;
6. From complacency to apathy;
7. From apathy to dependence;
8. From dependence back into bondage"

Makes you think, doesn't it? If people don't wake up, continue believing
what the press is constantly feeding them and become complacent and
apathetic about what is REALLY going on in this world, God help us! We
become disunited, forget about the loyalty to the country that we love so
much, become so partisan that we forget to think for ourselves and let
someone else do it for us, believing in them blindly. All I can say is,
*Wake up Americans"!

--Jean


This is one of the main reasons that our founding fathers ruled out a
democracy and instead formed a Republic. A democracy, like a communistic
society is a perfect society. That is why they do not and can never really
work. A Republic on the other hand can. We are drifting away from that mode
of government and becoming a cross between a democracy and a communist rule
and that I am afraid may be our ultimate downfall. It started with the
amendment where we lost the States Rights and allowed the people to elect
the Senators by popular vote instead of the States appointing them.
Jim

"jim" wrote in message
...

"Ken Conner" wrote in message
news:fhVTg.21034$gF3.18508@trnddc02...
"Jean O'Boyle" wrote in message
m...

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi Carl,

You can arrange a visa yourself quite easily through any embassy for
around the US$40 mark. However, check with you TA as the ship may
handle everything for you.

Also, ignore most of the posts from disgruntled vets - the place is
interesting to visit some 30 odd years after the it was carpet bombed,
phosphored and deforested. I guess they (the vets) can't get over the
fact that the most powerful nation on earth with all of the latest gear
got totally screwed by a bunch of rice farmers. I especially liked the
comment by one respondant regarding the attrocities committed by the
Vietnamese - he should take a look in his own back yard with the secret
CIA torture camps and the concentration camp in Cuba.


I know, isn't it sad that more money is spent on feeding the prisoners
at Guantanamo than is spent on feeding the military stationed there? If
the military had been allowed to fight a war as a war IS fought (yes,
war is ugly) by the politicians in Washington and the troops were
supported by the people as they should have been, it would have been won
and won in a much shorter time than it eventually lasted. But it seems
that the arm chair warriors and those sitting in their cushy jobs in
Washington mandate those decisions.

Sad that you read the rags that make the USA and the military look bad
and believe them.
Ask John McCain or any other POW about the definition of the word,"
atrocity"...Ask the wounded American Vietnam Vets about the" kindness"
of the Viet Cong and the savage way those wounds were gotten...It is
evident that you were not there or you would not speak so callously and
deprecatingly of the military who lay their lives on the line every day
for you...for you to be able to have the freedom of speech...
Again,...thanks to them. And yet they continue to do it despite people
who malign them ...like you.

--Jean

Don't forget the pompous asses that sat behind their news desks and
convinced the American public and obviously some congressmen that we were
losing the war when, in fact, the enemy was being held together only by
the attitude of the American public.


Exactly. After the Tet offensive the public was told how terribly we were
defeated and how we could no longer win. Fact was that the VC were
decimated and the NVA in the south were virtually non-existance after we
kicked there ass all the was back behind the DMZ. The North was seriously
contumplating surrender at that point but changed their attitudes after
watching our news broadcasts. How much of this reminds us of Lraq. Yes,
"Mission Accomplished" was exactly that. Our military won the war against
Suddam. The insurgency began after our media steped in and started making
all the dire predictions about this being a Vietnam and encouraged the
militants to start a civil war. Way to go media! Because of you, thousands
more have again died for your ratings.
Jim



Between the media and Hollywood, who needs enemies?
They have destroyed America's image to the world and managed to blame
someone else for it at the same time!

--Jean

Ken Conner wrote:

Don't forget the pompous asses that sat behind their news desks and
convinced the American public and obviously some congressmen that we were
losing the war when, in fact, the enemy was being held together only by the
attitude of the American public.

Absolutely right. We are not losing the war because of lack of troops,
inadequate equipment, lack of planning, no strategy, and no plan for
victory. The fact is, it is all the fault of tee-vee.

But unlike Vietnam, in Vietraq we have a president with balls. He and
his fellow chickenhawks, who never fought in a war but love to play
them, will never leave Iraq. It doesn't matter if we spend $7 billion
a month and 2000 killed like now -- we could spend $70 billion, 20,000
or $700 billion and 200,000. We will never leave. Never ever ever
ever ever ever.

God bless George Bush.

jim wrote:

That's because the bleeding hearts would not let the military win the war
and we never bombed the crap out of Hanoi.
As for the vicious part. Of course they aren't. It was just our imagination
the horrible atrocities they committed against our troops, the murders they
committed, the beheadings, the rapes, the torture and rape of a mans
daughters and wife in front of his eyes while he is tied to a post, belly
slit open and his entrails burned before his eyes. Must have been my
imagination. Sorry.
Jim

Yes, yes, we only dropped more tonnage than in WWII .. but it just
wasn't quite enought to beat powerful Vietnam.

As for the "vicious poeple" part, I still don't get your point. You
keep saying how Vietnamese did these things, yet people of ALL
nationalities do these things ... humans are vicious, that I grant. Do
you really think the fact that an American criminal is convicted for
rape and torture means that "all Americans" are vicious? That is just
crazy, IMO.

On Sun, 1 Oct 2006 08:00:44 -0400, "F." wrote:

Hey carl...............If it is so great, leave your passport here, pack
your family and bags and get yourself a little piece of paradise you can
keep forever

"And if you can't eat your plate clean, then think of the poor and
hungry who would love to have that food."