Airbus bets billions that really big plane will take off

Airbus bets billions that really big plane will take off
747's rival targets non-U.S. markets

By SARA KEHAULANI GOO
The Washington Post

Its wings stretch nearly the length of a football field, about 50 feet
longer than any plane in the air today. Nose to tail it is longer than
two blue whales. Inside the cabin, it has room for at least 550
passengers - and as many as 1,000.

The world's largest commercial airplane, the Airbus A380, sits in a
factory in southwestern France, awaiting its unveiling next month. Then
in the spring, the plane faces a critical flight test that Airbus SAS
hopes will answer naysayers' questions about the million-pound
behemoth.

Safety experts have raised concerns about how airlines will be able to
evacuate so many passengers in an emergency. Pilots worry whether
runways are wide enough to accommodate the huge plane in the event of
an engine failure. Airports from Washington's Dulles to Singapore's
Changi are spending millions of dollars to strengthen taxiways and
build double-decker jet bridges for quick boarding to avoid cramped
terminals.

The A380 poses a profound threat to Boeing Co.'s crown jewel, the 747,
which has reigned as the largest passenger plane for the past 30 years.
Airbus, which receives funding from four European countries, surpassed
Boeing last year to become the world's biggest maker of commercial
airplanes.

The $12 billion superjumbo, already $2 billion over budget, offers
luxury options never enjoyed aboard a commercial airliner. Passengers
will be greeted on the lower deck not by a cramped galley but by a wide
staircase to the upper level where first- and business-class passengers
will be seated. Each first-class seat will fold open into a bed
stretching the depth of two or three rows of coach.
On the lower deck, the coach section will look similar to airlines
today, with just an extra inch of width in each seat. Airbus envisions
that airlines will use the ample space aboard the long-haul plane for
cocktail lounges, waterfall fountains and private suites that serve as
in-air bedrooms and double as business meeting areas.

The Airbus A380 is "the new modern airplane of the future," said John
Leahy, an American who is Airbus's executive vice president for
customer affairs. "Just like the 747 - it changed the way we flew so we
could cross oceans and it gave us more space. (The A380) will be more
the mentality of a cruise ship . . . to get up, have a drink, visit
with some friends."

But skeptics doubt that many airlines will invest in costly luxuries
when they place their orders. Instead, they say, the carriers will
likely want to cram as many passengers aboard as possible to maximize
profit.

Several U.S. airline executives and consultants said the plane's size
will result in passengers feeling like cattle - first crammed into an
airport terminal and then slowly loaded onto the plane. "What's in it
for me to sit on an airplane with 500 other people, wait for my bags
with 500 other people, check in with 500 other people?" Gordon Bethune,
chief executive of Continental Airlines, asked a travel industry group
last year.

Airbus hopes to sell more than half of its superjumbos to airlines in
developing nations in Asia, where a growing middle class doesn't fly
very much but increasingly has the financial means to do so. Company
executives point to figures that show China's aviation industry is
rapidly expanding, with an expected growth of 8.5 percent annually over
the next several years.

Americans fly more often per capita than any other travelers in the
world, but growth in passenger traffic has largely matured at a 2.7
percent annual rate. Although many foreign carriers plan to fly the
huge plane into some U.S. airports, Airbus does not expect early orders
for the $250 million planes from financially struggling U.S. carriers.
The cargo company FedEx Corp. is the American exception. It has ordered
10 cargo versions.

The megaplane broadens Airbus's assault on Boeing's lead in world
aviation. Another Airbus plane, the A340-600, this year began flying
the world's longest nonstop flight from Singapore to New York, an
18=BD-hour journey. Airbus's smaller planes have become a favorite of
low-fare carriers such as JetBlue Airways, and some analysts said the
competition forced Boeing to shake up its top sales executives earlier
this month.

Airbus also announced plans this month to build a plane to compete with
Boeing's new 7E7 Dreamliner, a double-aisle aircraft scheduled to debut
in 2008. The 7E7, Boeing's first new aircraft in a decade, is aimed at
the growing market for mid-size aircraft flown by low-fare carriers. It
is designed to have fuel-efficient engines and is constructed of
materials that are lighter weight than those usually found on
commercial airliners.

Boeing said it has no plans to develop a superjumbo to compete with the
Airbus A380. Although it once considered jointly building a giant plane
with Airbus, the Chicago company now says it sees no profit and no
market for such a plane. The A380 "just doesn't make sense," said Randy
Baseler, Boeing's commercial airplane vice president for marketing. "We
know airplane sizes are going down."

Airbus has sold 139 of the A380s, mostly to government-backed airlines.
Its largest customer is a rapidly expanding state-owned carrier based
in Dubai.

The United Arab Emirates has an ambitious goal to make Dubai into a
global tourism and transportation hub. The carrier plans to outfit 31
of its more than 40 megaplanes on order with first-class sections that
offer "in-air bedrooms"that can be closed off from the rest of the
cabin. The suites will each come with a minibar, a private closet to
hang a jacket and a foot rest that can be turned into a second chair
for a business meeting. The cabin will be outfitted with high-tech
lighting to help adjust passengers' body clocks to cut down on jet lag.

"It will be like kids with new toys," said Tim Clark, chief director of
Emirates. "People will go out of their way to fly on these planes."

Source:
http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/p...41219/REPOSIT=
ORY/412190387/1013/NEWS03

By SARA KEHAULANI GOO
The Washington Post

Wow, how slanted and uneducated this article was.

two blue whales. Inside the cabin, it has room for at least 550
passengers - and as many as 1,000.

I have never seen the 1000 figure from Airbus. Until they make real
evacuation tests, I doubt that Airbus will talk about more than 555 pax in its aircraft.

evacuate so many passengers in an emergency. Pilots worry whether
runways are wide enough to accommodate the huge plane in the event of
an engine failure.

The 380's wheelbase is not too different from that of the 747s. Also, its very
large wings allow it to land and takeoff at speeds which are slower than the 747.

Airbus, which receives funding from four European countries, surpassed
Boeing last year to become the world's biggest maker of commercial
airplanes.

So, how much did spain,france, germany and england contribute ??? Does the
author know that Airbus is a subsidiary of publicly traded EADS ? I don't
recall englnad contributing money to Airbus.


The $12 billion superjumbo, already $2 billion over budget,

Airbus clearified this. The A380 is CURRENTLY on budget, but is forecasted to
exceed budgets later on between now and 2008. (I think it has something to do
with the freight version).

staircase to the upper level where first- and business-class passengers
will be seated.

Second deck will also have coach passengers. 2-4-2 upstairs, 3-4-3 downstairs.

But skeptics doubt that many airlines will invest in costly luxuries
when they place their orders. Instead, they say, the carriers will
likely want to cram as many passengers aboard as possible to maximize
profit.

So far, none of the airlines have planned more than 555 passengers. And at
that number, there is plenty of space for non-seating areas.

Now, later on, it is possible that Airbus will certify the aircraft for more
pax, assuming it has the capability (both safety and operation), and assuming
that airlines can actually fill those seats.

for me to sit on an airplane with 500 other people, wait for my bags
with 500 other people, check in with 500 other people?" Gordon Bethune,

What's it is for people to go through an airport along with 10,000 other
passengers ? In fact, the A380 may forcxe the gate area configs to be changed
to make it better for passengers.

aviation. Another Airbus plane, the A340-600, this year began flying
the world's longest nonstop flight from Singapore to New York, an
18*-hour journey.

Its is the 340-500, not the -600.

Airbus has sold 139 of the A380s, mostly to government-backed airlines.

And guess what, Boeing also sells mostly to government backed airlines, since
the USA market has dried up since 2001. So this editiorial comment was an
uncalled-for jab, making it look like decision to buy the A380 was political
and not based on actual needs.

for a business meeting. The cabin will be outfitted with high-tech
lighting to help adjust passengers' body clocks to cut down on jet lag.

Interestingly, Boeing claims its 7E7 will be first to have those, but the A380
will have it first.

nobody wrote in :
Airbus, which receives funding from four European countries,
surpassed Boeing last year to become the world's biggest maker of
commercial airplanes.

So, how much did spain,france, germany and england contribute ??? Does
the author know that Airbus is a subsidiary of publicly traded EADS ?
I don't recall englnad contributing money to Airbus.

Careful, now: Ms. Goo said that Airbus received funding, and you are
saying they received contributions... No need to kick another one of those
threads off, as I doubt you are intending to do that...

--lw--

Several U.S. airline executives and consultants said the plane's size
will result in passengers feeling like cattle - first crammed into an
airport terminal and then slowly loaded onto the plane. "What's in it
for me to sit on an airplane with 500 other people, wait for my bags
with 500 other people, check in with 500 other people?" Gordon Bethune,
chief executive of Continental Airlines, asked a travel industry group
last year.

-----------------------------------------------------

Price, price and price. If a flight is cheaper on a 380 passengers will
flock to it. (And these comments, coming from Bethune are a bit of a joke.
Every time I have to fly Continental I cringe - Seat pitch is unbearable.
What do I care if I'm flying with 300 people or 500? If I had some leg room
I'd jump at a 380. [Not that I will have any leg room, of course.])

Cheers,
Geoff Glave
Vancouver, Canada

Several U.S. airline executives and consultants said the plane's size
will result in passengers feeling like cattle - first crammed into an
airport terminal and then slowly loaded onto the plane. "What's in it
for me to sit on an airplane with 500 other people, wait for my bags
with 500 other people, check in with 500 other people?" Gordon Bethune,
chief executive of Continental Airlines, asked a travel industry group
last year.

-----------------------------------------------------

Price, price and price. If a flight is cheaper on a 380 passengers will
flock to it. (And these comments, coming from Bethune are a bit of a joke.
Every time I have to fly Continental I cringe - Seat pitch is unbearable.
What do I care if I'm flying with 300 people or 500? If I had some leg room
I'd jump at a 380. [Not that I will have any leg room, of course.])

Cheers,
Geoff Glave
Vancouver, Canada

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 05:42:56 GMT, "Geoff Glave"
wrote:

Several U.S. airline executives and consultants said the plane's size
will result in passengers feeling like cattle - first crammed into an
airport terminal and then slowly loaded onto the plane. "What's in it
for me to sit on an airplane with 500 other people, wait for my bags
with 500 other people, check in with 500 other people?" Gordon Bethune,
chief executive of Continental Airlines, asked a travel industry group
last year.

-----------------------------------------------------

Price, price and price. If a flight is cheaper on a 380 passengers will
flock to it. (And these comments, coming from Bethune are a bit of a joke.
Every time I have to fly Continental I cringe - Seat pitch is unbearable.
What do I care if I'm flying with 300 people or 500? If I had some leg room
I'd jump at a 380. [Not that I will have any leg room, of course.])

Cheers,
Geoff Glave
Vancouver, Canada


Yes, I crossed the Atlantic on one of Continental's 757s, only because
of the price of course, so I know it's a joke for him to talk about
passenger comfort. In any case, which is worse, 380 pax on one level
or 500 spread over 2 levels?
--==++AJC++==--

AJC wrote:
Yes, I crossed the Atlantic on one of Continental's 757s, only because
of the price of course, so I know it's a joke for him to talk about
passenger comfort.

Presidents of airlines that choose frequency over efficiency will of course
find any argument (some valid) against bigger planes.

It is interesting that the "fragmentation theory" is squewed by LHR. Look at
AA. In order to maintain its slots at LHR, it has artificially high
frequencies from New York to London.

AA could replace a few flights with some A380s (or 747s), freeing LHR slots to
operate services from other american cities to LHR, thus icreasing its
footprint and number of pax carried to London. But it doesn't want to do that.
So the A380 could in fact foster fragmentation in this particular case.

If the value of slots at LHR were to be removed, or if airlines were
encouraged to let go of slots with a garantee that they could get them back,
you'd probably find US airlines behaving quite differently with regards to
their flights to LHR.

Now, if the beast does really give 20% operating cost improvement on a per pax
basis, Air France operating a 380 to LAX should be able to consistently offer
lower fares than its american competitors flying cessnas. That will really
hurt american carriers.

This is probably why Boeing must really get that 7E7 off the ground with huge
efficiency improvements that can rival the A380 on long flights.

AJC wrote:
Yes, I crossed the Atlantic on one of Continental's 757s, only because
of the price of course, so I know it's a joke for him to talk about
passenger comfort.

Presidents of airlines that choose frequency over efficiency will of course
find any argument (some valid) against bigger planes.

It is interesting that the "fragmentation theory" is squewed by LHR. Look at
AA. In order to maintain its slots at LHR, it has artificially high
frequencies from New York to London.

AA could replace a few flights with some A380s (or 747s), freeing LHR slots to
operate services from other american cities to LHR, thus icreasing its
footprint and number of pax carried to London. But it doesn't want to do that.
So the A380 could in fact foster fragmentation in this particular case.

If the value of slots at LHR were to be removed, or if airlines were
encouraged to let go of slots with a garantee that they could get them back,
you'd probably find US airlines behaving quite differently with regards to
their flights to LHR.

Now, if the beast does really give 20% operating cost improvement on a per pax
basis, Air France operating a 380 to LAX should be able to consistently offer
lower fares than its american competitors flying cessnas. That will really
hurt american carriers.

This is probably why Boeing must really get that 7E7 off the ground with huge
efficiency improvements that can rival the A380 on long flights.

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 04:13:19 -0500, nobody wrote:

AJC wrote:
Yes, I crossed the Atlantic on one of Continental's 757s, only because
of the price of course, so I know it's a joke for him to talk about
passenger comfort.

Presidents of airlines that choose frequency over efficiency will of course
find any argument (some valid) against bigger planes.

It is interesting that the "fragmentation theory" is squewed by LHR. Look at
AA. In order to maintain its slots at LHR, it has artificially high
frequencies from New York to London.

AA could replace a few flights with some A380s (or 747s), freeing LHR slots to
operate services from other american cities to LHR, thus icreasing its
footprint and number of pax carried to London. But it doesn't want to do that.
So the A380 could in fact foster fragmentation in this particular case.


That's an interesting point. I wonder if LHR would ever adjust landing
fees to actively encourage the use of larger aircraft. It is in BAA's
interest to get the maximum number of pax per slot through the LHR
(and LGW) shopping centres. Of course they need to support short-haul
feeder traffic in lower capacity aircraft, but the likes of 767s (and
787s?) on long-hauls would surely be the least interesting for BAA. On
short-haul it is amazing that you still even get KL F50s flying in to
LHR.


If the value of slots at LHR were to be removed, or if airlines were
encouraged to let go of slots with a garantee that they could get them back,
you'd probably find US airlines behaving quite differently with regards to
their flights to LHR.

Now, if the beast does really give 20% operating cost improvement on a per pax
basis, Air France operating a 380 to LAX should be able to consistently offer
lower fares than its american competitors flying cessnas. That will really
hurt american carriers.

This is probably why Boeing must really get that 7E7 off the ground with huge
efficiency improvements that can rival the A380 on long flights.


And they have to do it at a price for which the ailing US carriers can
scrape together finance! Meanwhile, what's the betting relatively
successful US carrier NW places an order for 350s?


--==++AJC++==--

On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 18:23:28 -0500, nobody wrote:

The cabin will be outfitted with high-tech
lighting to help adjust passengers' body clocks to cut down on jet lag.

Interestingly, Boeing claims its 7E7 will be first to have those, but the A380
will have it first.

Actually you can fly on an Emirates A340-500 that already has such
lighting. www.emirates.com has a good tour of their new A340-500's.