How to best get along in Europe?

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 22:49:16 +0100, nitram wrote:

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 17:19:28 GMT, "nospam" wrote:

I also wonder, do Eurpeans in general still dress well today, or do
they dress like so many of us slobs here in the USA, especially the
men?

The further west you go, the sloppier the dress, for both men and
women. Exceptions abound, with Paris being quite stylish. Amsterdam
looks like any American city, clothes-wise.

Belgium is the exception, it's the land of the suit.

???

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 17:19:28 GMT, nospam wrote:

The further west you go, the sloppier the dress, for both men and
women. Exceptions abound, with Paris being quite stylish. Amsterdam
looks like any American city, clothes-wise.

Hehe, that's so true. I brought some "extra casual" stuff just to wear in
the hotel...and that's what I ended up wearing the most in Germany,
because that's what all the Germans were wearing!

--
-BB-
To reply to me, drop the attitude (from my e-mail address, at least)

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 17:19:28 GMT, nospam wrote:

The further west you go, the sloppier the dress, for both men and
women. Exceptions abound, with Paris being quite stylish. Amsterdam
looks like any American city, clothes-wise.

Hehe, that's so true. I brought some "extra casual" stuff just to wear in
the hotel...and that's what I ended up wearing the most in Germany,
because that's what all the Germans were wearing!

--
-BB-
To reply to me, drop the attitude (from my e-mail address, at least)

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 17:19:28 GMT, nospam wrote:

The further west you go, the sloppier the dress, for both men and
women. Exceptions abound, with Paris being quite stylish. Amsterdam
looks like any American city, clothes-wise.

Hehe, that's so true. I brought some "extra casual" stuff just to wear in
the hotel...and that's what I ended up wearing the most in Germany,
because that's what all the Germans were wearing!

--
-BB-
To reply to me, drop the attitude (from my e-mail address, at least)

Barbara Lightner wrote:

Is this still good advice?

I also wonder, do Eurpeans in general still dress well today, or do
they dress like so many of us slobs here in the USA, especially the
men?


"Dress impressively like the French, speak with authority like the
Germans, have blond hair like the Scandinavians and speak
of no American presidents except Lincoln, Roosevelt and Kennedy. "
-- Sylvaine Rouy Neves, On how to Gain Respect While Traveling in
Europe, NY Times, Sep 30, 1984

Barbara Lightner

Barbara,

You will get a lot of opinions on this subject. My observations and
opinions are at
http://www.enjoy-europe.com/hte/chap05/clothes.htm. Many who contribute
to this NG disagree. It's your call.

John Bermont
--
------------------------------------------------------
* * * Mastering Independent Budget Travel * * *
http://www.enjoy-europe.com/
------------------------------------------------------

Barbara Lightner wrote:

Is this still good advice?

I also wonder, do Eurpeans in general still dress well today, or do
they dress like so many of us slobs here in the USA, especially the
men?


"Dress impressively like the French, speak with authority like the
Germans, have blond hair like the Scandinavians and speak
of no American presidents except Lincoln, Roosevelt and Kennedy. "
-- Sylvaine Rouy Neves, On how to Gain Respect While Traveling in
Europe, NY Times, Sep 30, 1984

Barbara Lightner

Barbara,

You will get a lot of opinions on this subject. My observations and
opinions are at
http://www.enjoy-europe.com/hte/chap05/clothes.htm. Many who contribute
to this NG disagree. It's your call.

John Bermont
--
------------------------------------------------------
* * * Mastering Independent Budget Travel * * *
http://www.enjoy-europe.com/
------------------------------------------------------

Yorick wrote:

Barbara Lightner wrote:


"Dress impressively like the French,


Dress as you like, maybe a bit less tennis-shoe than you're used to.


speak with authority like the
Germans,


Don't. Speak like an American, just a little softer


have blond hair like the Scandinavians


Nah.


and speak
of no American presidents except Lincoln, Roosevelt and Kennedy. "


Good idea. Don't talk about politics to strangers.

My advice would be (and I'm surprised that no one ever mentions that): Try
to learn some table manners! I noticed that Americans tend to eat with a
fork only, and use their knife just for cutting.

As opposed to, say, using the knife to convey food to the mouth? Using
fork and maybe spoon to scoop up food like hinged clamshells? ;-)

That is considered to be
very rude over here. Both in a restaurant and when you're invited to a
private dinner party.
Americans use their fork to push the food around their plates, mix it and
eat. The other hand is used to lean on the table. I see my friends doing it
(also in restaurants), but I also notice people doing it on american tv
shows and in movies.

Here in France, I've taken great care to notice people in restaurants
and cafeterias, and have found that the French use their utensils the
same way that Americans do. The Brits are the odd ones out. So perhaps
you are not speaking for all of Europe? ;-)

So my advice would be to learn to eat with a knife and fork before coming to
Europe

Yorick.

Yorick wrote:

Barbara Lightner wrote:


"Dress impressively like the French,


Dress as you like, maybe a bit less tennis-shoe than you're used to.


speak with authority like the
Germans,


Don't. Speak like an American, just a little softer


have blond hair like the Scandinavians


Nah.


and speak
of no American presidents except Lincoln, Roosevelt and Kennedy. "


Good idea. Don't talk about politics to strangers.

My advice would be (and I'm surprised that no one ever mentions that): Try
to learn some table manners! I noticed that Americans tend to eat with a
fork only, and use their knife just for cutting.

As opposed to, say, using the knife to convey food to the mouth? Using
fork and maybe spoon to scoop up food like hinged clamshells? ;-)

That is considered to be
very rude over here. Both in a restaurant and when you're invited to a
private dinner party.
Americans use their fork to push the food around their plates, mix it and
eat. The other hand is used to lean on the table. I see my friends doing it
(also in restaurants), but I also notice people doing it on american tv
shows and in movies.

Here in France, I've taken great care to notice people in restaurants
and cafeterias, and have found that the French use their utensils the
same way that Americans do. The Brits are the odd ones out. So perhaps
you are not speaking for all of Europe? ;-)

So my advice would be to learn to eat with a knife and fork before coming to
Europe

Yorick.

Yorick wrote:

My advice would be (and I'm surprised that no one ever mentions that): Try
to learn some table manners! I noticed that Americans tend to eat with a
fork only, and use their knife just for cutting. That is considered to be
very rude over here. Both in a restaurant and when you're invited to a
private dinner party.
Americans use their fork to push the food around their plates, mix it and
eat. The other hand is used to lean on the table. I see my friends doing it
(also in restaurants), but I also notice people doing it on american tv
shows and in movies.

So my advice would be to learn to eat with a knife and fork before coming to
Europe


Eating with knife and fork simultaneously matters only on formal
occasions, IMHO. I offer slightly different advice:
- don't cut your food into pieces at the beginning of the meal;
rather cut each piece as needed, just before eating it.
- don't hold the utensils in your clenched fist; use your fingers too.

Yorick wrote:

My advice would be (and I'm surprised that no one ever mentions that): Try
to learn some table manners! I noticed that Americans tend to eat with a
fork only, and use their knife just for cutting. That is considered to be
very rude over here. Both in a restaurant and when you're invited to a
private dinner party.
Americans use their fork to push the food around their plates, mix it and
eat. The other hand is used to lean on the table. I see my friends doing it
(also in restaurants), but I also notice people doing it on american tv
shows and in movies.

So my advice would be to learn to eat with a knife and fork before coming to
Europe


Eating with knife and fork simultaneously matters only on formal
occasions, IMHO. I offer slightly different advice:
- don't cut your food into pieces at the beginning of the meal;
rather cut each piece as needed, just before eating it.
- don't hold the utensils in your clenched fist; use your fingers too.