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#191
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lingua anglica Brits don't speak foreign languages
Erilar wrote:
David Horne wrote: Erilar wrote: David Horne wrote: [] I have a wireless keyboard in both of my office and studio but that's inconvenient for travelling... For traveling I only take the iPad -- I find the iPad such a pointless device- I would get no work done on it other than maybe emails, even it's browsing is limited. Much more worth it taking a real computer on the road... I no longer work for money. I rarely work for money. It's a great fringe benefit. -- (*) of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate www.davidhorne.net (email address on website) "[Do you think the world learned anything from the first world war?] No. They never learn." -Harry Patch (1898-2009) |
#192
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lingua anglica Brits don't speak foreign languages
Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:
(David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)) wrote in : simon calder wrote: you can jail break the ipad to get access to Flash content... Except that's troublesome, why should you have to do it? And it confirms the whole joke that Apple's fight with Adobe is. Android has Flash I know. It's not a computer, that's a given. My problem is that it doesn't even offer a full onlin multimedia experience. And given that it is capable of doing so, _that_ in my opinion is the real issue. So don't buy Apple products. I don't buy ipads. Otherwise, Apple products suit me very well. -- (*) of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate www.davidhorne.net (email address on website) "[Do you think the world learned anything from the first world war?] No. They never learn." -Harry Patch (1898-2009) |
#194
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Greek language European languages Brits don't speak foreign languages
On 2011-12-12 10:39:22 -0600, David Hatunen said:
On Sun, 11 Dec 2011 03:52:29 +0100, Wolfgang Schwanke wrote: Dan Stephenson wrote in news:2011121018384715615-stephedanospam@maccom: On 2011-12-10 09:57:42 -0600, Wolfgang Schwanke said: What he said, is that modern Greeks cannot understand the ancient Greek at all. Yes. Modern Greek and Ancient Greek are two different languages. It's like Latin and Italian: One is descended from the other and they are of course closely related, but distant enough not to be mutually I have been led to understand that Italian is pretty close to the vulgate Latin spoken by most people at the time of the Roman Empire and the vulgate had, at that time, already drifted toward being a different language than classical Latin. Was there a similar "vulgate" Greek spoken in ancient times, but all we usually see in ancient texts is the classical Greek? So when did Italian start ending all its words with a vowel? Written Latin does not have that. -- Dan Stephenson http://web.mac.com/stepheda Travel pages for Europe and the U.S.A. (and New Zealand too) |
#195
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Greek language European languages Brits don't speakforeign languages
On Fri, 16 Dec 2011, Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:
Partially it does, for example It. donna is Latin domina. Some of the -o endings in Italian are from Latin -us or -um. The main point is that Latin had cases and declination, while all romance languages (Italian Spanish Portuguese Catalan French ...) descending from it haven't (not sure about Rumenian). So Latin 1st declination feminine had -a ending at nominative (and ablative as well). 2nd declination (-us masculine -um neutral at nominative) have -o at ablative. 3rd declination had -e at ablative. The italian (singular) forms are often identical to the latin ablative. But the sacred texts say that the romance languages derive their nouns from Latin accusative (-am -um -um -e) with eventual loss of the consonant, and language-dependent vowel shifts. In same case it is very apparent (spanish plural in -os are like latin plural accusative, but italian plural in -i is like latin plural nominative). No idea about actual dates of change. Known texts like the "sao ko kelle terre per kelli fini ke ki kontene", or the inscription in S.Clemente are around year 1000 |
#196
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Greek language European languages Brits don't speak foreign languages
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 16:39:22 +0000 (UTC), David Hatunen
wrote: I have been led to understand that Italian is pretty close to the vulgate Latin spoken by most people at the time of the Roman Empire and the vulgate had, at that time, already drifted toward being a different language than classical Latin. Was there a similar "vulgate" Greek spoken in ancient times, but all we usually see in ancient texts is the classical Greek? Yes, it's called Koine ("common") Greek, the language of the New Testament. When Alexander the Great and his successors conquered the diverse peoples of the Near East, and Hellenized them, they needed a simplified form of the language that could be read and pronounced from texts. So, Classical Greek was reformed by adding punctuation marks and guides to pronunciation (accent marks and "breathings"). This became the "lingua franca" of the eastern half of the Roman Empire. (Written Classical Greek, in its pure form, did not separate the words by spaces and did not have punctuation marks, accents, or breathings. The native speakers simply knew by habit how to pronounce it, just as the Chinese today know how to pronounce their ideograms. As the Chinese have many local oral dialects, that are not reflected in the written Chinese language, so too did the ancient Greeks have local dialects and variations in pronunciation. These tended to become standardized with the advent of Koine.) |
#197
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European languages Brits don't speak foreign languages
On Sat, 10 Dec 2011 16:57:42 +0100, Wolfgang Schwanke
wrote: There are some other instances in the world, e.g. in Greece where they have a high brow register "Katharevousa" ("pure language") which is intentionally constructed to be similar to Ancient Greek, and an everyday register "Dimotiki" ("folk language"). This distinction is obsolete, especially since the language reform of 1976, which abolished all accents and "breathings" except for the acute accent. Greeks today speak and write a single language. |
#198
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European languages Brits don't speak foreign languages
There are some other instances in the world, e.g. in Greece where they
have a high brow register "Katharevousa" ("pure language") which is intentionally constructed to be similar to Ancient Greek, and an everyday register "Dimotiki" ("folk language"). This distinction is obsolete, especially since the language reform of 1976, which abolished all accents and "breathings" except for the acute accent. Greeks today speak and write a single language. No. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontic_Greek There are other Greek dialects, like those spoken in Italy, which have been separated from any kind of Greek spoken in Greece for more than a thousand years. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m e . u k Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland mobile 07800 739 557 http://www.campin.me.uk Twitter: JackCampin |
#199
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European languages Brits don't speak foreign languages
There are other Greek dialects, like those spoken in Italy, which have
Surely those who speak it in Italy are Italians? yes, since ever. The same applies to Arbereshe (albanian-speaking), Catalans, Croatians, Cimbrians etc. and Walser. These people settled centuries ago. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griko_language http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calabrian_Greek_dialect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arb%C3%ABresh%C3%AB http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molise_Croatian_dialect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimbrian_language http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walser http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoran...e_%28Italia%29 I cannot find a translation for the latter page on linguistic minorities in Italy, it includes the above cases (ancient settlements usually in enclaves), as well as more familiar cases near recent (1860- 1918- 1945) borders (French patois in Val d'Aosta, German in Suedtirol, Slovenian in Friuli) plus some other local languages (the issue why those are considered "languages" and other are considered "dialects" is sort of fishy). It also describes a few cases of enclaves with italian dialects from a remote part of the country with respect to the surrounding area. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- is a newsreading account used by more persons to avoid unwanted spam. Any mail returning to this address will be rejected. Users can disclose their e-mail address in the article if they wish so. |
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