Electricity Connectors and Voltages

"nightjar" nightjar@ insert_my_surname_here.uk.com wrote:

"Alan" wrote in message
news
Hi All

Haven't been to some of those groups for a while:-)

Some of you will have seen this, but this is probably the best web-site
I've seen for a comparison and description of what you'll need for
connectors when you travel.

Electrical Connectors

http://www.topline.tv/lang/electrical/plugs.html

If you are travelling Europe, those variations in Switzerland and Italy
can catch you out. The two prong non-earth European plug will fit
either, but the Italian and Swiss earthed plugs will not fit a European
socket.

It is also misleading in showing only one 'European' style. In France, the
Schuko style is mostly used in the north, while the south uses a plug with a
separate offset earth pin, positioned about where the screw is in the lower
of the two sockets shown.

So you found that "Europe" does not include (Italy, Switzerland (sp?)
and) France, and that suprises you exactly why? :-) Why would their
electrical systems be anymore accomodating than their political ones?

[Sorry, I couldn't resist. Feel free to ignore/flame/praise/whatever
me.]

"nightjar" nightjar@ insert_my_surname_here.uk.com wrote:

"Alan" wrote in message
news
Hi All

Haven't been to some of those groups for a while:-)

Some of you will have seen this, but this is probably the best web-site
I've seen for a comparison and description of what you'll need for
connectors when you travel.

Electrical Connectors

http://www.topline.tv/lang/electrical/plugs.html

If you are travelling Europe, those variations in Switzerland and Italy
can catch you out. The two prong non-earth European plug will fit
either, but the Italian and Swiss earthed plugs will not fit a European
socket.

It is also misleading in showing only one 'European' style. In France, the
Schuko style is mostly used in the north, while the south uses a plug with a
separate offset earth pin, positioned about where the screw is in the lower
of the two sockets shown.

So you found that "Europe" does not include (Italy, Switzerland (sp?)
and) France, and that suprises you exactly why? :-) Why would their
electrical systems be anymore accomodating than their political ones?

[Sorry, I couldn't resist. Feel free to ignore/flame/praise/whatever
me.]

"Miguel Cruz" wrote in message
...
Mark Hewitt wrote:
The USA one is misleading, implying there is a top connector for all
their
plugs, when most of the plugs and sockets I have encountered only have
two
pins.

Really, most? I only see them in very old homes with ancient wiring. In
the
last 10 years I don't think I've seen 2-prong socket at all. However many
low-current devices (lamps, radios, etc.) do have 2-prong plugs.

Hi Miguel,

Admittedly I was only in the USA for 2 weeks, in Seattle and Washington DC,
and saw lots of 2 prong plugs (probably several dozen) and no three prong
plugs at all.

"Miguel Cruz" wrote in message
...
Mark Hewitt wrote:
The USA one is misleading, implying there is a top connector for all
their
plugs, when most of the plugs and sockets I have encountered only have
two
pins.

Really, most? I only see them in very old homes with ancient wiring. In
the
last 10 years I don't think I've seen 2-prong socket at all. However many
low-current devices (lamps, radios, etc.) do have 2-prong plugs.

Hi Miguel,

Admittedly I was only in the USA for 2 weeks, in Seattle and Washington DC,
and saw lots of 2 prong plugs (probably several dozen) and no three prong
plugs at all.

Mark Hewitt wrote:

"Miguel Cruz" wrote in message
...
Mark Hewitt wrote:
The USA one is misleading, implying there is a top connector for all
their
plugs, when most of the plugs and sockets I have encountered only have
two
pins.

Really, most? I only see them in very old homes with ancient wiring. In
the
last 10 years I don't think I've seen 2-prong socket at all. However many
low-current devices (lamps, radios, etc.) do have 2-prong plugs.

Hi Miguel,

Admittedly I was only in the USA for 2 weeks, in Seattle and Washington DC,
and saw lots of 2 prong plugs (probably several dozen) and no three prong
plugs at all.

The 2-prong _plugs_ are quite common - it's the 2-prong _outlets/sockets_
which are not common, except in older properties which haven't had their
wiring upgraded.

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 20:16:12 +0100, "Mark Hewitt"
wrote:


"Miguel Cruz" wrote in message
...
Mark Hewitt wrote:
The USA one is misleading, implying there is a top connector for all
their
plugs, when most of the plugs and sockets I have encountered only have
two
pins.

Really, most? I only see them in very old homes with ancient wiring. In
the
last 10 years I don't think I've seen 2-prong socket at all. However many
low-current devices (lamps, radios, etc.) do have 2-prong plugs.

Hi Miguel,

Admittedly I was only in the USA for 2 weeks, in Seattle and Washington DC,
and saw lots of 2 prong plugs (probably several dozen) and no three prong
plugs at all.


Most USA plugs are two prong for 110/115.

Some 110/115 shop tools and heavy appliances will use 3 prong, but a
male two prong will always work in female three prong if they are both
110/115. The thrid prong is just a ground.

All 220 in the USA are three prong. These are usually heavy duty like
A/C units, Washing machines, and the like.

"220 volt" in USA is a 2 phase 110 volt circuit, 110 +110 90 degrees out of
phase, similar in intent to 415V 3phase in Aus 3*240v 120 Degrees out of
phase, so dont assume that us 220 volt will come close to operating in Aus
240V or vice versa Aus 240 will not operate in US 220v

--

"jim" wrote in message
...
| On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 20:16:12 +0100, "Mark Hewitt"
| wrote:
|
|
| "Miguel Cruz" wrote in message
| ...
| Mark Hewitt wrote:
| The USA one is misleading, implying there is a top connector for all
| their
| plugs, when most of the plugs and sockets I have encountered only have
| two
| pins.
|
| Really, most? I only see them in very old homes with ancient wiring. In
| the
| last 10 years I don't think I've seen 2-prong socket at all. However many
| low-current devices (lamps, radios, etc.) do have 2-prong plugs.
|
| Hi Miguel,
|
| Admittedly I was only in the USA for 2 weeks, in Seattle and Washington DC,
| and saw lots of 2 prong plugs (probably several dozen) and no three prong
| plugs at all.
|
|
| Most USA plugs are two prong for 110/115.
|
| Some 110/115 shop tools and heavy appliances will use 3 prong, but a
| male two prong will always work in female three prong if they are both
| 110/115. The thrid prong is just a ground.
|
| All 220 in the USA are three prong. These are usually heavy duty like
| A/C units, Washing machines, and the like.
|

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004, Alan wrote:

Some of you will have seen this, but this is probably the best web-site
I've seen for a comparison and description of what you'll need for
connectors when you travel.

Electrical Connectors
http://www.topline.tv/lang/electrical/plugs.html

The pictures are pretty, but the information is more detailed he
http://kropla.com/electric2.htm

Don donwiss at panix.com.

Ronald Olsson wrote:
"Miguel Cruz" skrev:
Mark Hewitt wrote:
The USA one is misleading, implying there is a top connector for all
their plugs, when most of the plugs and sockets I have encountered only
have two pins.

Really, most? I only see them in very old homes with ancient wiring. In
the last 10 years I don't think I've seen 2-prong socket at all. However
many low-current devices (lamps, radios, etc.) do have 2-prong plugs.

2-prong socket doesn't always mean "old ancient wiring houses".

It does in the USA, which is what I was talking about.

Earlier some countries made a separation between kitchen areas, wet areas
as bathroom and living room, bedrooms. Kitchen areas and wet areas always
did need a wall socket with earth while other areas didn't need that. Now
a days it's more common that all apartments and houses does has an
earth-fault detection device and therefore all sockets must have an earth
connection and all plugs must be 3-plung plugs.

The reason for the 3rd prong isn't just to detect a fault, but it's to shunt
wayward electricity to ground via a path more appealing than a human.

Only devices with extra insulation does have a flat 2-plung plug without
earth.

Many (especially complex) devices make liberal use of frame ground, and on
these, even tiny exposed metal parts (screw heads, etc.) may carry dangerous
current in the event of a fault. While the British arguably go too far, the
rest of Europe in my opinion often doesn't go far enough in wiring safety
(and don't get me started about the design of the plug prongs themselves).

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

"Miguel Cruz" skrev i meddelandet
...

2-prong socket doesn't always mean "old ancient wiring houses".

It does in the USA, which is what I was talking about.

I know that, but this post did start with European ones too, that´s why I´d
add my reply

The reason for the 3rd prong isn't just to detect a fault, but it's to
shunt
wayward electricity to ground via a path more appealing than a human.

I know that too, I just wanted to point out that the roles are stronger now
a days, you are not allowed to just have 3 prong wall sockets only into new
biuldings, a common earth falut detection device for incoming power or
separated units for different outgoing supply is also a must.

Only devices with extra insulation does have a flat 2-plung plug without
earth.

Many (especially complex) devices make liberal use of frame ground, and on
these, even tiny exposed metal parts (screw heads, etc.) may carry
dangerous
current in the event of a fault. While the British arguably go too far,
the
rest of Europe in my opinion often doesn't go far enough in wiring safety
(and don't get me started about the design of the plug prongs themselves).

All electric units in Europe, of all different types, wich has a flat 2prong
plug has been tested and are considered safe, otherwise they aren´t allowed
to be avaible on the market. However, mostly 2prong plugs are found for
smaller items like hair-dryers and other smaller non-metallic devices. Units
with a metal frame does always have a 3rd plung for earth connection. Even
smaller electric units which outher layer are mostly of glass or different
types of plastic or a combination, like smaller coffee makers and simular
units, does has a 3-prong plug.

(and don't get me started about the design of the plug prongs themselves

No I´m not trying to do that at all, we all have our different
experience/opinions about design and functions, and so do I, I am an
electric engineer. Design/functions/roles has always been different from
country to country even if we in Europe have a big common agreement
regarding electric safety both in desgign and functions. That doesn´t mean
that every country must have the same design.
Ronald