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La Guardia airport is a death trap for flyers, workers



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 5th, 2006, 04:17 AM posted to misc.consumers,rec.travel.air,rec.travel.usa-canada,nyc.transit
[email protected]
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Posts: 16
Default La Guardia airport is a death trap for flyers, workers

laGuardia's days are over. It's too tight, in too crowded an area, and
the runway extensions keep creating waterway problems and residential
flooding, and stink up the bay by keeping water from flowing (badenuf Bob
Moses submerged and stoppered up the Flushing River for the World Fair after
he had deepened it for the one before - for the first one, he needed the
river for navigating exhibits). Have you ever landed at LGA at a 45 degree
angle? My prep school's lab (no other classroom) managed to pickup the sound
of low flying airplanes (because of accoustic peculiarities of the lab and
the parking lot and the neighboring apartment buildings) and drown out our
teacher. Since they can't build a train to this airport, maybe they should
just scrap the airport completely and send traffic to JFK. It's happened
before. There used to be a Floyd Bennet Field (Brooklyn, no?). JFK can
expand towards the ocean, essentially infinitely. Moreover, the entire
Flushing River Valley is so much Robert Moses landfill it is the most
quake-damageable part of the city (acc to laMont Doherty). Best to turn LGA
into one huge convention center and strip mall.

- = -
Vasos-Peter John Panagiotopoulos II, Reagan Mozart Pindus BioStrategist
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
[Yellary Clinton & Yellalot Spitzer: Nasty Together]
  #2  
Old September 5th, 2006, 02:09 PM posted to misc.consumers,rec.travel.air,rec.travel.usa-canada,nyc.transit
william welner
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Posts: 4
Default La Guardia airport is a death trap for flyers, workers

I agree that LGA should be closed, with the land put back as wet lands from
which it originally came from and made into a wet lands natural habitat
park.

The money that must be spent on improving LGA should be spent on improving
rail transportation including the installation of bullet trains through the
North East Corridor, New York State and perhaps to Chicago.

LGA handles short and medium range flights that should could be handled high
speed train service from other cities, and using SWF (Stewart Airport), once
it is connected by rail to the MTA Port Jervis Line operated by Jersey
transit, running trains directly through NY Penn Station to Jamaica
Station and Newark Airport so that it connects to the Air Trains at both
airports.

The closing of LGA could be coordinated with the new commuter rail tunnel
under the Hudson River to 34th Street in Manhattan where by it could be
connected to the East Side Access project station being built under Grand
Central Station which would connect with the LIRR, so I propose that a rail
tunnel be built between the 2 projects so that electric trains could operate
between Kennedy, Newark and Stewart Airports.

The only necessary function of LGA in my opinion, is that many of the planes
using it fly over Ricers Island Prison is punishment by disturbing its
prisoners sleep at night.

wrote in message
...
laGuardia's days are over. It's too tight, in too crowded an area, and
the runway extensions keep creating waterway problems and residential
flooding, and stink up the bay by keeping water from flowing (badenuf Bob
Moses submerged and stoppered up the Flushing River for the World Fair
after
he had deepened it for the one before - for the first one, he needed the
river for navigating exhibits). Have you ever landed at LGA at a 45 degree
angle? My prep school's lab (no other classroom) managed to pickup the
sound
of low flying airplanes (because of accoustic peculiarities of the lab and
the parking lot and the neighboring apartment buildings) and drown out our
teacher. Since they can't build a train to this airport, maybe they should
just scrap the airport completely and send traffic to JFK. It's happened
before. There used to be a Floyd Bennet Field (Brooklyn, no?). JFK can
expand towards the ocean, essentially infinitely. Moreover, the entire
Flushing River Valley is so much Robert Moses landfill it is the most
quake-damageable part of the city (acc to laMont Doherty). Best to turn
LGA
into one huge convention center and strip mall.

- = -
Vasos-Peter John Panagiotopoulos II, Reagan Mozart Pindus BioStrategist
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
[Yellary Clinton & Yellalot Spitzer: Nasty Together]




  #3  
Old September 5th, 2006, 10:57 PM posted to misc.consumers,rec.travel.air,rec.travel.usa-canada,nyc.transit
Sancho Panza[_1_]
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Posts: 552
Default La Guardia airport is a death trap for flyers, workers


"Cyrus Afzali" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 03:17:34 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

laGuardia's days are over. It's too tight, in too crowded an area,

and
the runway extensions keep creating waterway problems and residential
flooding, and stink up the bay by keeping water from flowing (badenuf Bob
Moses submerged and stoppered up the Flushing River for the World Fair

after
he had deepened it for the one before - for the first one, he needed the
river for navigating exhibits). Have you ever landed at LGA at a 45

degree
angle? My prep school's lab (no other classroom) managed to pickup the

sound
of low flying airplanes (because of accoustic peculiarities of the lab

and
the parking lot and the neighboring apartment buildings) and drown out

our
teacher. Since they can't build a train to this airport, maybe they

should
just scrap the airport completely and send traffic to JFK. It's happened
before. There used to be a Floyd Bennet Field (Brooklyn, no?). JFK can
expand towards the ocean, essentially infinitely. Moreover, the entire
Flushing River Valley is so much Robert Moses landfill it is the most
quake-damageable part of the city (acc to laMont Doherty). Best to turn

LGA
into one huge convention center and strip mall.


It might be interesting for you to know that the largest traffic
category at LGA is regional jets, which hold a maximum of 50 people.
These certainly don't create crowding conditions on the ground or with
the facilities, although they do contribute to sky congestion because
FAA rules require the same distance limits for them as larger jets
that carry twice as many people.

You don't need to extend the runways either. Until about a decade ago,
you regularly had 757s flying into LGA.

As far as building a train to it, it can easly be done, but won't
because Astoria residents won't be crazy about having their $750,000
and up homes condemned for the right of way. You could use existing
freight rail for increased service, but that's not likely either.

Long story short, study the airline/aviation industry before going on
a crazy rant.


It might also be added the Kennedy isn't on the ocean.


  #6  
Old September 6th, 2006, 02:17 AM posted to misc.consumers,rec.travel.air,rec.travel.usa-canada,nyc.transit
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16
Default La Guardia airport is a death trap for flyers, workers


Do you realise how far out of Tokyo Narita is? I guess it was in
1988 that I saw in a New London newspaper that they wanted to make
Hartford Airport be to Boston what Newark is to NYC. Normally, I'm
not in favor of megaprojects that I see as boondoggles, but you have
to think if it wouldn't make sence to really concentrate on BosNYWash
high speed rail (I know, given how pathetic Acela is, why bother) and
have one big superregional airport somewhere where there is plenty of
room. I suspect this is especially relevant given the terrorist
activity of recent years. Then again, having gone stir crazy on the
plane, I'm baffled the SST wasn't used on the NYC-Tokyo route.

- = -
Vasos-Peter John Panagiotopoulos II, Reagan Mozart Pindus BioStrategist
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
[Yellary Clinton & Yellalot Spitzer: Nasty Together]
  #7  
Old September 6th, 2006, 02:58 AM posted to misc.consumers,rec.travel.air,rec.travel.usa-canada,nyc.transit
Frank F. Matthews
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Posts: 1,362
Default La Guardia airport is a death trap for flyers, workers



wrote:
Do you realise how far out of Tokyo Narita is? I guess it was in
1988 that I saw in a New London newspaper that they wanted to make
Hartford Airport be to Boston what Newark is to NYC. Normally, I'm
not in favor of megaprojects that I see as boondoggles, but you have
to think if it wouldn't make sence to really concentrate on BosNYWash
high speed rail (I know, given how pathetic Acela is, why bother) and
have one big superregional airport somewhere where there is plenty of
room. I suspect this is especially relevant given the terrorist
activity of recent years. Then again, having gone stir crazy on the
plane, I'm baffled the SST wasn't used on the NYC-Tokyo route.

- = -


First, there pretty much isn't anywhere along the NE rail route that has
plenty of room.

Second, a massive airport would simply be another traffic hazard in an
already crowded corridor.

Third, I really doubt that such a massive airport could be operated
efficiently. Most major airports today have enough trouble with
transfers as it is.

Now if you want to make the folks from the east coast go west to
Pennsylvania you might manage a major port there. I doubt that you
would find much support though.
  #9  
Old September 6th, 2006, 04:03 AM posted to misc.consumers,rec.travel.air,rec.travel.usa-canada,nyc.transit
nobody[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 356
Default La Guardia airport is a death trap for flyers, workers

"Frank F. Matthews" wrote:
Second, a massive airport would simply be another traffic hazard in an
already crowded corridor.


That can be debated. Right now, the multitude of very busy airports in
the NYC area is also causing many ATC headaches, especially whenever the
wind changes that they have to ensure that changing patterns for airport
A doesn't cause collisions with traffic also changing at airports B and
C.

Remove one airport and it may help with that problem. (But you have to
make sure that the "combined" airport has sufficient runway capacity to
*really* handle the load even in bad weather).

Merging LGA into JFK would also have very interesting effects with
regards to overseas flights since it would make JFK a much
greater/better hub.

Third, I really doubt that such a massive airport could be operated
efficiently. Most major airports today have enough trouble with
transfers as it is.


Schiphol seems to be doing a very fine job. So are other very large
airports in the world.

One issue with a complex such as JFK would be to have a more central
management of terminals instead of giving airlines much control of
"their" terminal. You'd want some central luggage management facility
to which each terminal is connected to ensure fast/smooth transfers for
instance. And that means equipping each terminal with the same automated
systems. In other words, run JFK as one logical terminal even though it
is physically made up of different buildings.

I think this is a big difference between Schiphol and JFK and what makes
Schiphol so much more effective.
  #10  
Old September 6th, 2006, 06:11 AM posted to misc.consumers,rec.travel.air,rec.travel.usa-canada,nyc.transit
Sancho Panza[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 552
Default La Guardia airport is a death trap for flyers, workers


"nobody" wrote in message
...
"Frank F. Matthews" wrote:
Second, a massive airport would simply be another traffic hazard in an
already crowded corridor.


That can be debated. Right now, the multitude of very busy airports in
the NYC area is also causing many ATC headaches, especially whenever the
wind changes that they have to ensure that changing patterns for airport
A doesn't cause collisions with traffic also changing at airports B and
C.

Remove one airport and it may help with that problem. (But you have to
make sure that the "combined" airport has sufficient runway capacity to
*really* handle the load even in bad weather).

Merging LGA into JFK would also have very interesting effects with
regards to overseas flights since it would make JFK a much
greater/better hub.

Third, I really doubt that such a massive airport could be operated
efficiently. Most major airports today have enough trouble with
transfers as it is.


Schiphol seems to be doing a very fine job. So are other very large
airports in the world.

One issue with a complex such as JFK would be to have a more central
management of terminals instead of giving airlines much control of
"their" terminal. You'd want some central luggage management facility
to which each terminal is connected to ensure fast/smooth transfers for
instance. And that means equipping each terminal with the same automated
systems. In other words, run JFK as one logical terminal even though it
is physically made up of different buildings.

I think this is a big difference between Schiphol and JFK and what makes
Schiphol so much more effective.


Kennedy used to be so badly operated that the Port Authority hired Schilpol,
giving the airport quite a lift.


 




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