Mariner of The Seas vs. Ocean Liners of The Past

A Mon, 3 Jan 2005 17:59:31 -0500,
(Surfer E2468) escribió:
Only ships we know of left for sitting on promenade deck are HAL,&
PRINCESS

Majesty of the Seas had a wrap-around promenade deck, where
we spent quite a while reading, and snoozing.


--
bicker®

A Mon, 3 Jan 2005 17:59:31 -0500,
(Surfer E2468) escribió:
Only ships we know of left for sitting on promenade deck are HAL,&
PRINCESS

Majesty of the Seas had a wrap-around promenade deck, where
we spent quite a while reading, and snoozing.


--
bicker®

A Mon, 3 Jan 2005 20:36:45 -0500,
(Surfer E2468) escribió:
Yes you can sit on most ships and look out over the ocean,but wo wants
to sit on a balcony all day,which is where you would have to be to do
what we like to do,and my idea of cruising is not to hibernate in my
roon,but to be on deck and mingle with the people.

That's what Karen was saying: Newer cruise ships are built
to satisfy both wishes: Folks who want to sit on their
balcony have that option; folks who want to mingle with
others on deck have that option. Indeed, there are many
more options available to, on the newer ships.


--
bicker®

Karen Segboer wrote:
Benjamin Smith wrote:


Karen Segboer wrote:


Benjamin Smith wrote:


Karen Segboer wrote:


Cruise companies are in the money-making business. They want to draw
as many of each generation as they can. Nothing wrong with that,
doesn't bother me, and it's smart on their part.


I find something wrong with an overemphasis on money making.



That's what huge corporations who fund the building and operating of
cruise ships want, though, Ben. Very little in business is as zen as
you'd like it to be.


Over the past few months I've had conversations with people from Asia
and Africa where business is integrated into a concept of extended
community service. The bottom line is striving for the well being of the
community. These are very complex societies in some ways though they
lack the material richness of Western societies. So, what I say isn't
based on my wishes, but alternative ways of thinking about things.


Yes, I know what you're saying, Ben, but I would be *very* surprised
to see that come about in this country, or any western country, for
that matter. Although Westerners/Americans admire and respect those
alternate lifestyles ... actually, they are MORE than mere lifestyles,
but alternate cultures ... they are not willing to adopt them.



Right, but I'm not looking to adopt the cultures, just a sense of
putting business in a cultural context in a way that is well suited to a
Western society. And I'm not expecting this to happen overnight or
perhaps in our lifetimes. But as we go more and more toward
globalization and include different cultures in business in a global
sense, perhaps some new (to us) sensibilities will seep into the how and
why of what we do in business. And I hope our efficiencies benefit their
societies.



Now, we are not talking about the scale of finance that it takes to make
fleets of ships, maintain them with efficiency, etc. And we are not
talking about stock prices that encourage investments that provide more
options for customers.


Westerners crave that kind of atmosphere, that kind of
competitiveness. It seems we know nothing else.



I think competition is healthy. I think it has made Western societies
advanced in technology that benefits the world, an example is the
financing that was necessary to produce advanced drugs and medical
techniques that lead the world. The problem is when money making takes
over the point of what you do, as in the case of a vioxx, money making
gets placed over the public's needs, where it becomes unhealthy and
defeats the function of the company's products. We rely on laws, rather
than a public spirit, consciousness, whatever you want to call it, to
remember that we are doing things for primarily human purposes. We do it
as a service to community.

I'm also not saying I find everything attractive in these societies, I
actually admire the quality of mass production that some large companies
have attained. All I'm saying is there's a balance of realizing what you
provide to people and the legacy of what you produce and at the same
time providing those that support your corporations with reasonably
positive financial returns.


I understand. It's just a mutual respect for the way different
cultures live their lives and run their businesses.


Yes. Thanks.

Ben S.

Karen

Karen Segboer wrote:
Benjamin Smith wrote:


Karen Segboer wrote:


Benjamin Smith wrote:


Karen Segboer wrote:


Cruise companies are in the money-making business. They want to draw
as many of each generation as they can. Nothing wrong with that,
doesn't bother me, and it's smart on their part.


I find something wrong with an overemphasis on money making.



That's what huge corporations who fund the building and operating of
cruise ships want, though, Ben. Very little in business is as zen as
you'd like it to be.


Over the past few months I've had conversations with people from Asia
and Africa where business is integrated into a concept of extended
community service. The bottom line is striving for the well being of the
community. These are very complex societies in some ways though they
lack the material richness of Western societies. So, what I say isn't
based on my wishes, but alternative ways of thinking about things.


Yes, I know what you're saying, Ben, but I would be *very* surprised
to see that come about in this country, or any western country, for
that matter. Although Westerners/Americans admire and respect those
alternate lifestyles ... actually, they are MORE than mere lifestyles,
but alternate cultures ... they are not willing to adopt them.



Right, but I'm not looking to adopt the cultures, just a sense of
putting business in a cultural context in a way that is well suited to a
Western society. And I'm not expecting this to happen overnight or
perhaps in our lifetimes. But as we go more and more toward
globalization and include different cultures in business in a global
sense, perhaps some new (to us) sensibilities will seep into the how and
why of what we do in business. And I hope our efficiencies benefit their
societies.



Now, we are not talking about the scale of finance that it takes to make
fleets of ships, maintain them with efficiency, etc. And we are not
talking about stock prices that encourage investments that provide more
options for customers.


Westerners crave that kind of atmosphere, that kind of
competitiveness. It seems we know nothing else.



I think competition is healthy. I think it has made Western societies
advanced in technology that benefits the world, an example is the
financing that was necessary to produce advanced drugs and medical
techniques that lead the world. The problem is when money making takes
over the point of what you do, as in the case of a vioxx, money making
gets placed over the public's needs, where it becomes unhealthy and
defeats the function of the company's products. We rely on laws, rather
than a public spirit, consciousness, whatever you want to call it, to
remember that we are doing things for primarily human purposes. We do it
as a service to community.

I'm also not saying I find everything attractive in these societies, I
actually admire the quality of mass production that some large companies
have attained. All I'm saying is there's a balance of realizing what you
provide to people and the legacy of what you produce and at the same
time providing those that support your corporations with reasonably
positive financial returns.


I understand. It's just a mutual respect for the way different
cultures live their lives and run their businesses.


Yes. Thanks.

Ben S.

Karen

Surfer E2468 wrote:

KAREN:
Yes you can sit on most ships and look out over the ocean,but wo wants
to sit on a balcony all day,which is where you would have to be to do
what we like to do,and my idea of cruising is not to hibernate in my
roon,but to be on deck and mingle with the people.



Most ships have promenade decks, located fairly low and under their
lifeboats, with lounge chairs. I agree with you that public deck space
is shrinking. My issue is the stern space that I used to enjoy is now
used for balconies.

Ben S.

Surfer E2468 wrote:

KAREN:
Yes you can sit on most ships and look out over the ocean,but wo wants
to sit on a balcony all day,which is where you would have to be to do
what we like to do,and my idea of cruising is not to hibernate in my
roon,but to be on deck and mingle with the people.



Most ships have promenade decks, located fairly low and under their
lifeboats, with lounge chairs. I agree with you that public deck space
is shrinking. My issue is the stern space that I used to enjoy is now
used for balconies.

Ben S.

*bicker* wrote:

A Mon, 03 Jan 2005 23:28:34 GMT, Benjamin Smith
escribió:

So, what I say isn't
based on my wishes, but alternative ways of thinking about things.


I believe you're being disingenuous

Too bad, but I'm not surprised.

Happy New Year.

Ben S.

*bicker* wrote:

A Mon, 03 Jan 2005 23:28:34 GMT, Benjamin Smith
escribió:

So, what I say isn't
based on my wishes, but alternative ways of thinking about things.


I believe you're being disingenuous

Too bad, but I'm not surprised.

Happy New Year.

Ben S.

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 12:48:45 GMT, Benjamin Smith wrote:

My issue is the stern space that I used to enjoy is now
used for balconies.

My issue is that there are not enough ships with stern balconies.