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DL pushing the self-serve checkin kiosks



 
 
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  #11  
Old March 20th, 2004, 09:53 PM
mtravelkay
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Default DL pushing the self-serve checkin kiosks

nobody wrote:
mtravelkay wrote:

I mever indicated we are doing away with human agents, but the
overwhelming percentage of checkin can be easily done with the kiosks.



In the USA yes because it has such a large domestic market. Elsewhere, it may
be a different story.


Plus if it is something the machine isn't currently programmed to do,
then there should be no fee.



There should never be a fee to check-in at a human desk. First of all, it
would cost more to collect the fee, take more than that it is worth. Secondly,
there are many cases where the CUSTOMER may need to ask some questions (such
as "can you put me on an earlier flight or reroute me due to thunderstorms in
the connecting airport) but end up with a "no, can't do that" and then the
agent proceeds with the simple check-in.


Again, why couldn't a customer ask the kiosk if they can check in for an
earlier flight.


Also, look at the "Airline" episodes where they brought babies without
paperwork. How is a kiosk supposed to handle checking the baby's ID to make
sure it is below 2 years of age ?


It doesn't need to. They can tell at the gate.


Consider the case of a fully booked flight. Do you rather have the couple and
baby "stopped" at the check-in counter and their check-in process not done, or
would you rather they check in and be stopped at the gate ?


How would this be any different than now?
People with babies can use the kioks now.


(think about 3 seats becoming free if the parents argue to a point where they
miss check-in deadline). Same thing with the fat people. Would you rather
have them blocked at the check-in process to pay the extra fee, or would you
rather have that done at the gate during boatrding process when there is very
little time left ?


Oversized people can use the kiosks now. The kiosks doesn't know.


In the end, you're simply shifting the manpower requirements from check-in to
gate areas.


There is no current requirement that says you can't use the kiosks if
overweight or with a baby, so what manpower requirements are you
referring to that would be different than now?




  #12  
Old March 20th, 2004, 10:02 PM
nobody
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Default DL pushing the self-serve checkin kiosks

mtravelkay wrote:
Again, why couldn't a customer ask the kiosk if they can check in for an
earlier flight


Well, perhaps that is what airlines prefer. It is easier for a computer to
just say "NO" to a customer than some human being having to explain that their
ticket doesn't allow. The thing is that the human being can look to see load
factor of other flights and then, with supervisor's approval, **** that pax to
earlier flight to make room on the originally schedule but overbooked
flight. (it is called judgement).

And then you get into bad weather situations, where rules are "lifted" to a
certain extent.

Remember that airport staff have all mighty powers and can "cheat" if
warranted. You can't allow a check-in kiosk to "cheat" and it will have to
abide by all rules.

What happens when you have just one check in agent and 95 check in kiosks, and
flights get cancelled ? What happens when only your flight is cancelled and
you need to have your eticket "de-checked-in" and then the process to endorse
it and send you via another airlines ? Do you seriously think that a computer
can be given the necessary judgement to process all of this ?

sure it is below 2 years of age ?


It doesn't need to. They can tell at the gate.


This means that you must equip folks at the gate with the necsserary hardware
to collect money if they need to charge for the baby or the overweight person.
And again, if they only notice this during boarding process, this will delay
the flight or cause person to miss that flight.

How would this be any different than now?
People with babies can use the kioks now.


As long as a relatively small number of frequent fliers use the kiosks, you
don't have many such exceptions. But if they roll it out to the masses, then
you start having problems.

Perhaps the solution is to have cameras monitoring each kiosk, and staff
making sure that the persons are OK, and if not, the immediatly send someone
to that kiosk. Similarly, equip staff with mobile "real" terminals and the
second someone presses the "HELP" button at the kiosk, a human can show up and
take over the process on the "real" terminal.

I am not saying that the kiosks are evil. But they just aren't a magical
solution that eliminates staff.
  #13  
Old March 20th, 2004, 11:46 PM
mtravelkay
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Default DL pushing the self-serve checkin kiosks



nobody wrote:

mtravelkay wrote:

Again, why couldn't a customer ask the kiosk if they can check in for an
earlier flight



Well, perhaps that is what airlines prefer. It is easier for a computer to
just say "NO" to a customer than some human being having to explain that their
ticket doesn't allow. The thing is that the human being can look to see load
factor of other flights and then, with supervisor's approval, **** that pax to
earlier flight to make room on the originally schedule but overbooked
flight. (it is called judgement).

And then you get into bad weather situations, where rules are "lifted" to a
certain extent.

Remember that airport staff have all mighty powers and can "cheat" if
warranted. You can't allow a check-in kiosk to "cheat" and it will have to
abide by all rules.


But the rules can be programmed to permit an earlier flight if the
earlier flight is under a certain load factor, and if the passenger is
flying under a certain fare class It could also make exception in case
of weather.


What happens when you have just one check in agent and 95 check in kiosks, and
flights get cancelled ?


The computer rebooks everyone for the next flight to the destination.


What happens when only your flight is cancelled and
you need to have your eticket "de-checked-in" and then the process to endorse
it and send you via another airlines ? Do you seriously think that a computer
can be given the necessary judgement to process all of this ?



1. Read original bp
2. check for available flights on this airline
3. if no flight available, book flight on other carrer
4. print ticket with endorsement to other airline
5. eject ticket

If a human with a high school education can enter the keystrokes to get
a computer to do this (excecpt for manually endorsing the ticket), then
it wouldn't take much for a computer to do it.
This is the 21st century.. Most of the things kiosks are doing is based
on older technology.


sure it is below 2 years of age ?


It doesn't need to. They can tell at the gate.



This means that you must equip folks at the gate with the necsserary hardware
to collect money if they need to charge for the baby or the overweight person.
And again, if they only notice this during boarding process, this will delay
the flight or cause person to miss that flight.


I am saying this happens NOW... Taking an under 2 year old now doesn't
restrict you from using the kiosks now. How is this fifferent from
having Travel Agents giving our boarding passes? Not checking in at the
ticket counter isn't new technology.


How would this be any different than now?
People with babies can use the kioks now.



As long as a relatively small number of frequent fliers use the kiosks, you
don't have many such exceptions. But if they roll it out to the masses, then
you start having problems.


I thought the Airline episode with the toddler occurred at the gate
checkin desk. The solution is simple, unless the child appears to be an
infant charge the fare.

  #14  
Old March 21st, 2004, 12:32 AM
Ethan Hall-Beyer
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Default DL pushing the self-serve checkin kiosks

But the rules can be programmed to permit an earlier flight if the
earlier flight is under a certain load factor, and if the passenger is
flying under a certain fare class It could also make exception in case
of weather.


I think a couple of systems already do this, notably Air Canada's.


1. Read original bp
2. check for available flights on this airline
3. if no flight available, book flight on other carrer
4. print ticket with endorsement to other airline
5. eject ticket

If a human with a high school education can enter the keystrokes to get
a computer to do this (excecpt for manually endorsing the ticket), then
it wouldn't take much for a computer to do it.
This is the 21st century.. Most of the things kiosks are doing is based
on older technology.


It's not a question of whether it CAN be done, but whether it can be
done to the point of saving the airline money. As mentioned previously
in this thread, the whole point of kiosks is to save the *airlines* money.

Making a kiosk that has coupon/ticket escrow and revalidation, along
with all the logic and host interaction, is not cheap. Making it a
system that "grandma" can use in these weird cases is an exercise that
might prove beyond the commitment of most airlines, as well.

Just as there continue to be tellers and bank branches alongside ATM,
airline kiosks and staffed counters will continue to coexist.

Airline kiosks are part of the "customer interaction" part of the
airline business, not the "computer automation" part. Just because it's
possible implement on a kiosk, doesn't mean it's a good idea.


I am saying this happens NOW... Taking an under 2 year old now doesn't
restrict you from using the kiosks now. How is this fifferent from
having Travel Agents giving our boarding passes? Not checking in at the
ticket counter isn't new technology.


I think it Southwest's specific case, if you have pre-registered that
you are taking on an infant (or anything else that requires special/ID
verification) the kiosk redirects you to an agent.
  #15  
Old March 21st, 2004, 01:08 AM
nobody
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Default DL pushing the self-serve checkin kiosks

mtravelkay wrote:
But the rules can be programmed to permit an earlier flight if the
earlier flight is under a certain load factor, and if the passenger is
flying under a certain fare class It could also make exception in case
of weather.


"Rules" are very bad because they assume that you've predicted all possible
conditions/situations. And airlines aren't about to make "official" all the
loopholes that give airport staff flexibility in handling passengers.

The computer rebooks everyone for the next flight to the destination.


Why then do airlines have large departments that do just that ? It isn't
*that* easy.

1. Read original bp
2. check for available flights on this airline
3. if no flight available, book flight on other carrer
4. print ticket with endorsement to other airline
5. eject ticket


#3 is the big issue here. Airlines will try to have pax just accept that there
are no flights until 3 days from now and pay his own hotel. Then they will
negotiate with pax what he gets depends on how strong the pax's arguments are
to uphold his "rights".

Again, this would require to have the airline put on paper the types of rules
they usually leave up to station supervisors' judgement.

On "Airline", there was this episode about the blackouts, and how the WN staff
at chicago had been told that pax coming in by bus had been told they would
not connect and be rtesponsible for hotel, but all the pax had been told the
opposite by wn staff at detroit. Computers can't resolve this.

I thought the Airline episode with the toddler occurred at the gate
checkin desk. The solution is simple, unless the child appears to be an
infant charge the fare.


nop, it occured at check-in counter, and then at WN offices "in the middle".
Same with the overweight guy.
  #16  
Old March 21st, 2004, 09:53 AM
mtravelkay
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Default DL pushing the self-serve checkin kiosks

nobody wrote:

mtravelkay wrote:

The computer rebooks everyone for the next flight to the destination.


Why then do airlines have large departments that do just that ? It isn't
*that* easy.


Large departments?
Are you saying that when they cancel a flight, they have people go
manually through the reservations of each passenger. Well, judging from
past experience, they aren't doing a good job of it


1. Read original bp
2. check for available flights on this airline
3. if no flight available, book flight on other carrer
4. print ticket with endorsement to other airline
5. eject ticket



#3 is the big issue here. Airlines will try to have pax just accept that there
are no flights until 3 days from now and pay his own hotel.


If it is a weather delay, than passengers should be doing this. There is
no reason for airlines to compensate people for weather problems and
keep prices down. I remember the Airline episode where everyone wanted
to be taken care of due to the Eastern power outage.

Then they will
negotiate with pax what he gets depends on how strong the pax's arguments are
to uphold his "rights".

Again, this would require to have the airline put on paper the types of rules
they usually leave up to station supervisors' judgement.


The "rules" are on paper.

On "Airline", there was this episode about the blackouts, and how the WN staff
at chicago had been told that pax coming in by bus had been told they would
not connect and be rtesponsible for hotel, but all the pax had been told the
opposite by wn staff at detroit. Computers can't resolve this.


They got the hotel rooms as I recall.
The computer would have not promised them the rooms in the first place
as this was not something that should have been covered by the Airline.

I thought the Airline episode with the toddler occurred at the gate
checkin desk. The solution is simple, unless the child appears to be an
infant charge the fare.



nop, it occured at check-in counter, and then at WN offices "in the middle".
Same with the overweight guy.


But... They both oculd have easily checked in at home, with a kioask, or
other method (Travel Agent?). Getting BPs from someplace other than the
ticket counter isn't something knew.

  #17  
Old March 24th, 2004, 06:52 AM
Bob Myers
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Default DL pushing the self-serve checkin kiosks


"maryanne kehoe" wrote in message
...
I am the CUSTOMER, and I should decide how I want to check in for my
flight!!


Well, no, actually the choice you get to make is
which airline to use for your travel needs. They get to
decide pretty much everything else, and you're expected
to base YOUR choice on how they do that.

"The customer is always right" is a wonderful piece of
rhetoric, but pretty obviously is utter nonsense in
practice.

Bob M.


  #18  
Old March 25th, 2004, 01:09 AM
Miguel Cruz
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Default DL pushing the self-serve checkin kiosks

maryanne kehoe wrote:
I am the CUSTOMER, and I should decide how I want to check in for my
flight!!


Seems arbitrary. Should you decide the color of the seat fabric? The flight
numbers used for various city pairs? The scent of the soap in the bathroom?

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
  #19  
Old March 25th, 2004, 01:20 AM
Miguel Cruz
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Default DL pushing the self-serve checkin kiosks

In article , nobody wrote:
mtravelkay wrote:
Plus if it is something the machine isn't currently programmed to do,
then there should be no fee.


There should never be a fee to check-in at a human desk. First of all, it
would cost more to collect the fee, take more than that it is worth.


That's only part of the equation.

Let's say a teller transaction costs them $20, and it costs them $25 to
process a $20 fee.

For everyone who pays the fee, they'll lose $5.

However, the fee will dissuade many people from going to the counter. Each
of those saves them $20.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
 




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