advisability of reserving seats on Italian trains and learning Italian phrases

Getting ready for my trip in a few months to Italy. Noticed at the
RailEurope site that there is a separate charge for reserving seats.
Is it necessary to reserve a seat for a regional or intercity train?
(The only European train I've taken is a British one and seat
reservations are unnecessary.)

On another topic...Is it advisable to learn some Italian phrases just
so I can manage to get about? If so, what are the best phrase books?
By best, I mean ones that are the most colloquial? Also, how
essential is it to learn Italian grammar, i.e. rules for using the
right adjective forms, etc.?

Thanks in advance.

Lil

Unless you plan to travel during Holiday time (read "very crowded trains
with the risk to travel all the way on your feet") you don't have to reserve
your seat... Still if you can manage to do it it's always better. On
Eurostar and most "rapid" trains, you reserve your seat as you buy your
ticket. You're "obliged" to do so because no one can travel on these trains
unlsess they are seated (for security questions).

It's not bad at all to learn some basic italian, at least for every day
questions. Not everybody speaks (or understand) "correct english" here, even
if they'll most certainly help you anyway if you're lost or just wanting an
info...
Still if you know some words, you'll be able to get more in touch with the
people. You don't need to know the grammar in all its details, but pay
attention to pronunciation... some word can be tricky and "false friend".
It really depends on how much you're staying and how much you want to get
involved with your trip...
If you come for just one week or two, you don't need to bother a lot... some
words will be enough.
If you have planned to stay longer, I would sugget you to learn some more,
just not to feel too isolated from the real life.
This summer I've been in Italian Tirol but everybody was talking german,
which I unfortunaltely don't know... I can tell you that a week was
enough... even if the place was wonderfull, I began to feel "strangely
invisible". Next time I go I want to be albe to talk a little... to share
experiences and fun too!

Bon voyage!
Braque

"Lil" ha scritto nel messaggio
om...
Getting ready for my trip in a few months to Italy. Noticed at the
RailEurope site that there is a separate charge for reserving seats.
Is it necessary to reserve a seat for a regional or intercity train?
(The only European train I've taken is a British one and seat
reservations are unnecessary.)

On another topic...Is it advisable to learn some Italian phrases just
so I can manage to get about? If so, what are the best phrase books?
By best, I mean ones that are the most colloquial? Also, how
essential is it to learn Italian grammar, i.e. rules for using the
right adjective forms, etc.?

Thanks in advance.

Lil

Getting ready for my trip in a few months to Italy. Noticed at the
RailEurope site that there is a separate charge for reserving seats.
Is it necessary to reserve a seat for a regional or intercity train?
(The only European train I've taken is a British one and seat
reservations are unnecessary.)

Reservations are needed at peak times. Being stuck in an unairconditioned
train with not even enough standing room in 30 degree heat for 3 hours is
not an experience I would like to repeat.

On another topic...Is it advisable to learn some Italian phrases just
so I can manage to get about? If so, what are the best phrase books?
By best, I mean ones that are the most colloquial? Also, how
essential is it to learn Italian grammar, i.e. rules for using the
right adjective forms, etc.?

I managed to get by with just a simple phrase book. In the large cities you
will find most people speak at least a little English, however in more rural
areas a phrase book is very helpful, you can always point at phrases if you
don't understand them.

Lil wrote:

Getting ready for my trip in a few months to Italy. Noticed at the
RailEurope site that there is a separate charge for reserving seats.
Is it necessary to reserve a seat for a regional or intercity train?
(The only European train I've taken is a British one and seat
reservations are unnecessary.)

If it's not too late, I advise you not to buy anything from the
Raileurope site. They are grossly overpriced. If you want information on
schedules, etc., I suggest you consult www.trenitalia.it, which has a
much more complete timetable. They have an English language option. As
for tickets and reservations, I suggest you wait until you get to Italy
to buy them. Then you can get them at the station (either at the ticket
counter or at an automatic ticket machine, which also has an English
language option.) Or you can get your tickets at most travel agents.

As to your question, some trains, such as the Eurostar trains have
mandatory reservations, which are included in the price of the ticket.
Depending on the route and the time of travel, you may or may not be
able to get a reservation right up to the last minute. Second class
sells out first, so if it's full, you can usually get a reservation in
first class for a little more money. If that's also full, you can catch
a later train (maybe one that doesn't require reservations.

I live in Italy and I only make reservations on trains that I absolutely
must catch, for instance if I'm going to Rome to catch a flight. In that
case, I make the reservations at least a few days in advance. For all
other travel I wait until I get to the station and take my chances. I
have never had to catch a later train.

On trains that do not require a reservation, you may want to make one if
the trip is very long and if the train is arriving from another station
(in other words, possible already full). If it's a short trip, I just
try to get to the track early enough to get a seat and if I don't get
one, I either stand in the aisle for a while or upgrade my ticket to
first class on the train. (You pay a penalty for this.) I have actually
never reserved a seat in a train that didn't require reservations. Once
I upgraded to first class. The other times I've always found a seat.

Some trains, mostly regional trains, don't have reservations at all.
Since these are usually fairly short trips, you shouldn't have to stand
for long in any case.

I have two daughters who live in the US and visit me in Italy
frequently. They never reserve seats on the train they take from the
airport to my house. One reason is that it's hard to be sure exactly
which train you'll be able to catch. It's a pain to miss a train because
your flight was late, but it's also a pain when the flight is earlier
and everything goes smoothly, and you realize that you could have caught
an earlier train.

On another topic...Is it advisable to learn some Italian phrases just
so I can manage to get about? If so, what are the best phrase books?
By best, I mean ones that are the most colloquial? Also, how
essential is it to learn Italian grammar, i.e. rules for using the
right adjective forms, etc.?

If you're leaving in a few months, you don't have much time for grammar.
However, you certainly should learn the usual polite phrases that any
traveller should master before going to another country. These are "Good
morning" (or other appropriate greeting for the time of day), "Please",
and "Thank you". You probably should also learn, "I'm sorry, I don't
speak Italian well.", and "Please, do you speak English?" Also, if you
be shopping, "How much does that (pointing) cost?"

Almost any phrase book will cover these phrases and more. Get one with a
tape or CD so that you can get the pronunciation right or nearly right.
As for being colloquial, it's usually best not to get very colloquial
with strangers in a foreign country until you learn the social ropes.
For instance, "Ciao" is a very colloquial way to greet someone in Italy,
but it's considered bad manners to greet people that way unless they're
very young or you know them very well.

Barbara

"Barbara Vaughan" wrote in message
...
If you're leaving in a few months, you don't have much time for grammar.
However, you certainly should learn the usual polite phrases that any
traveller should master before going to another country. These are "Good
morning" (or other appropriate greeting for the time of day), "Please",
and "Thank you"....

Barbara--and maybe Luca and Giovanni--, when's the cutoff time between Buon
giorno and Buona sera? In the morning one says Buon giorno; in the evening
one says Buona sera. Sometime in the afternoon it switches. When is it?

Marianne

mimi wrote:

Barbara--and maybe Luca and Giovanni--, when's the cutoff time between Buon
giorno and Buona sera? In the morning one says Buon giorno; in the evening
one says Buona sera. Sometime in the afternoon it switches. When is it?

I don't know. I would say the switch is around the time it gets dark,
but my friend always laugh when I go on saying "Buongiorno" even at 9pm
:-)

--
Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail:

mimi wrote:

"Barbara Vaughan" wrote in message
...
If you're leaving in a few months, you don't have much time for grammar.
However, you certainly should learn the usual polite phrases that any
traveller should master before going to another country. These are "Good
morning" (or other appropriate greeting for the time of day), "Please",
and "Thank you"....

Barbara--and maybe Luca and Giovanni--, when's the cutoff time between Buon
giorno and Buona sera? In the morning one says Buon giorno; in the evening
one says Buona sera. Sometime in the afternoon it switches. When is it?

I have a feeling it's not fixed. Around here people switch to buona sera
sometime around 4 PM

Barbara

On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, mimi wrote:

Barbara--and maybe Luca and Giovanni--, when's the cutoff time between Buon
giorno and Buona sera? In the morning one says Buon giorno; in the evening
one says Buona sera. Sometime in the afternoon it switches. When is it?

Hah ! It depends on local and personal usages.
I tend to say "buon giorno" at any time from the morning to dusk, and
"buona sera" only when it's really dark or late, but there are other
people who say "buona sera" earlier.

And of course "buona sera" (good evening) is a greeting to be used when
you get in, and "buona notte" (good night) EXCLUSIVELY when you go away
and you wish to wish (!) a good sleep !

--
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In article ,
(Lil) wrote:

On another topic...Is it advisable to learn some Italian phrases just
so I can manage to get about?

Yes (in an emergency you will always find *someone* who speaks English
but it is not nearly as commonly or as well spoken as in Scandinavia or
the Netherlands, for example).

Italian is an easy language to pick up on a basic level, also a very easy
one to pronounce intelligibly if not perfectly, and the Italians don't
seem to mind us Anglophones mangling it.

If so, what are the best phrase books?

Can't help you there (I don't use a phrase book as such), but I can
suggest that you also carry a pocket dictionary - not so much for
conversation as for deciphering signs, newspaper headlines and so on.
(This comes under the heading of "making your trip more interesting", not
"essentials for survival".)

Also, how
essential is it to learn Italian grammar

IMHO it's not, in your situation - your time is far better spent learning
some basic vocabulary. It helps to know a past tense, plural forms etc.
but there is no point understanding the language's quite complex grammar
if you don't have the vocabulary to use it.

"Barbara Vaughan" wrote in message
...
mimi wrote:
when's the cutoff time between Buon
giorno and Buona sera? In the morning one says Buon giorno; in the
evening
one says Buona sera. Sometime in the afternoon it switches. When is it?

I have a feeling it's not fixed. Around here people switch to buona sera
sometime around 4 PM

Barbara

And here it seems to start at lunch time, or at latest, after the pausa.