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CyberFlying???



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 20th, 2011, 11:06 PM posted to rec.travel.air
mag3
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Posts: 51
Default CyberFlying???

Hello all. Long time since I've been on RTA. Mostly since I don't really fly anymore.
Different priorities in life now.

So I've been doing the next best thing. :-) I cannot believe the amount of video footage
I've found recently on YouTube of aircraft take offs/landings, engine starts etc. and
especially from *inside* the aircraft. I mean, this is some really good stuff... HD720p
footage usually from BC, pointed right out a window just forward of the engine with
excellent sound, quite like I remember it.

I guess my question is, how is it even possible to acquire such footage from inside the
aircraft given the prohibition on "portable electronic devices" below 10,000ft? Perhaps,
it may have been "overlooked" in the earlier days of "heightened security awareness,"
but I'm really wondering how anyone could get away with it today? Even if permission
were to be granted by the captain or crew, the passengers wouldn't necessarily know
that and might raise a ruckus on their own... leaving the crew to clean up.

"Unofficially," I thank those who take such good footage, as it's all the flying I do these
days (Cyberflying), but I just wonder how it's even possible...


____________________________________________
Regards,

Arnold
  #2  
Old October 21st, 2011, 05:41 AM posted to rec.travel.air
DevilsPGD[_3_]
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Posts: 79
Default CyberFlying???

In message someone claiming
to be mag3 typed:

I guess my question is, how is it even possible to acquire such footage from inside the
aircraft given the prohibition on "portable electronic devices" below 10,000ft? Perhaps,
it may have been "overlooked" in the earlier days of "heightened security awareness,"
but I'm really wondering how anyone could get away with it today? Even if permission
were to be granted by the captain or crew, the passengers wouldn't necessarily know
that and might raise a ruckus on their own... leaving the crew to clean up.


The short answer is that electronics aren't a threat and everyone knows
it. Nobody cares if you use a phone or similar on the ground, on the
runway, during takeoff/landing or anywhere else.

--
It's always darkest before dawn. So if you're going to
steal your neighbor's newspaper, that's the time to do it.
  #3  
Old October 21st, 2011, 10:22 PM posted to rec.travel.air
Tom P[_6_]
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Posts: 563
Default CyberFlying???

On 10/21/2011 06:41 AM, DevilsPGD wrote:
In someone claiming
to be typed:

I guess my question is, how is it even possible to acquire such footage from inside the
aircraft given the prohibition on "portable electronic devices" below 10,000ft? Perhaps,
it may have been "overlooked" in the earlier days of "heightened security awareness,"
but I'm really wondering how anyone could get away with it today? Even if permission
were to be granted by the captain or crew, the passengers wouldn't necessarily know
that and might raise a ruckus on their own... leaving the crew to clean up.


The short answer is that electronics aren't a threat and everyone knows
it. Nobody cares if you use a phone or similar on the ground, on the
runway, during takeoff/landing or anywhere else.


Cell phones do generate a lot of electronic RFC noise, so I can
understand why they are not allowed. What annoys me is being forbidden
to turn on a GPS receiver in flight. This is a totally passive
electronic device.
AFA not being a threat, the question is, are devices certified as not
being a threat? As long as there is no certification, that's the end of
the story.

  #4  
Old October 22nd, 2011, 12:59 AM posted to rec.travel.air
DevilsPGD[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 79
Default CyberFlying???

In message someone claiming to be Tom
P typed:

On 10/21/2011 06:41 AM, DevilsPGD wrote:
In someone claiming
to be typed:

I guess my question is, how is it even possible to acquire such footage from inside the
aircraft given the prohibition on "portable electronic devices" below 10,000ft? Perhaps,
it may have been "overlooked" in the earlier days of "heightened security awareness,"
but I'm really wondering how anyone could get away with it today? Even if permission
were to be granted by the captain or crew, the passengers wouldn't necessarily know
that and might raise a ruckus on their own... leaving the crew to clean up.


The short answer is that electronics aren't a threat and everyone knows
it. Nobody cares if you use a phone or similar on the ground, on the
runway, during takeoff/landing or anywhere else.


Cell phones do generate a lot of electronic RFC noise, so I can
understand why they are not allowed. What annoys me is being forbidden
to turn on a GPS receiver in flight. This is a totally passive
electronic device.
AFA not being a threat, the question is, are devices certified as not
being a threat? As long as there is no certification, that's the end of
the story.


Then why are you allowed to use many electronic devices during the
flight, including those that transmit and receive (on some flights)? Do
all onboard electronics suddenly become certified?

If there was even a chance cell phones, laptops, cameras, etc could
cause operational or safety issues with the flight, do you think they'd
focus on finding water and hand lotion or dangerous electronics?

--
It's always darkest before dawn. So if you're going to
steal your neighbor's newspaper, that's the time to do it.
  #5  
Old October 22nd, 2011, 06:14 PM posted to rec.travel.air
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 5,830
Default CyberFlying???

DevilsPGD writes:

Then why are you allowed to use many electronic devices during the
flight, including those that transmit and receive (on some flights)? Do
all onboard electronics suddenly become certified?


Technically, all portable devices are prohibited for the entire flight.
However, the FAA has admitted that this is overkill in its Advisory Circular,
but it hasn't actually changed the law. The AC gives airlines a wedge to
partially ignore the law, and some may go even further than that. Electronic
gadgets have never really been a threat to aircraft, and they definitely
aren't today.

If there was even a chance cell phones, laptops, cameras, etc could
cause operational or safety issues with the flight, do you think they'd
focus on finding water and hand lotion or dangerous electronics?


Two different agencies.
  #6  
Old October 24th, 2011, 05:24 AM posted to rec.travel.air
Mxsmanic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,830
Default CyberFlying???

Wolfgang Schwanke writes:

No they're not.


Yes, they are. Read the regulation. The only exceptions made by the regulation
are hearing aids, portable voice recorders, heart pacemakers, and electric
shavers.

I've already provided the references to the regulations in question. Look them
up.

AFAICT airlines prohibit electronic devices during
takeoff and landing, but during cruise you may use them.


I've already explained why this happens--it is largely due to an Advisory
Circular issued by the FAA. I gave the reference. Look it up.

Mobile phones
can be used in flight mode, which translates to all transmitting
functions (typically GSM, bluetooth, WLAN) off.


Yes, but a phone in that mode is not a cell phone in the context of the FCC
regulation, so it is permitted.

American regulations are immaterial for most of the world.


Then why are you arguing about them?
  #7  
Old October 24th, 2011, 08:54 AM posted to rec.travel.air
DevilsPGD[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 79
Default CyberFlying???

In message someone claiming to be Wolfgang
Schwanke typed:

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

DevilsPGD writes:

Then why are you allowed to use many electronic devices during the
flight, including those that transmit and receive (on some flights)?
Do all onboard electronics suddenly become certified?


Technically, all portable devices are prohibited for the entire
flight.


No they're not. AFAICT airlines prohibit electronic devices during
takeoff and landing, but during cruise you may use them. Mobile phones
can be used in flight mode, which translates to all transmitting
functions (typically GSM, bluetooth, WLAN) off.


This doesn't apply either on a number of flights (think in-flight wifi,
which by definition requires wireless transmission and reception)

--
It's always darkest before dawn. So if you're going to
steal your neighbor's newspaper, that's the time to do it.
  #8  
Old October 22nd, 2011, 01:39 AM posted to rec.travel.air
Fly Guy
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Posts: 193
Default Using electronic devices during take-off and landing (was:CyberFlying???)

Tom P wrote:

What annoys me is being forbidden to turn on a GPS receiver in
flight.


I've never let any such rule stop me from using my GPS.

Or my AM/FM radio. There's really no AM reception possible inside the
plane, but I've listened to many FM stations while crusing at 35k feet.
Most people (including FA's) can't tell the difference between an FM
radio and an MP3 player (and some devices are MP3 and FM radios).

AFA not being a threat, the question is, are devices certified
as not being a threat? As long as there is no certification,
that's the end of the story.


The embargo on electronic devices during take-off and landing is
bull****. We all know that prohibition is there to remove a possible
source of interference or lack-of-attention between the crew and
passengers in cases of emergency (which are more relavent during
taxi/takeoff/landing than during other phases of the flight).

I guess the theory goes that if you're playing with and focused on your
electronic gadget in your lap, or if you're wearing headphones connected
to your own audio device, then your attention will not be on the crew if
they need you do to something or act quickly in an emergency situation.

They don't really want to say that's the reason, so they invent this
bogus bull**** reason that your electronic device will interfere with
the control and navigation systems of the plane. They seem so anal
about it that you wonder why they don't force you to take the battery
out of your wrist watch for christ sakes.

The prohibition against recieving devices (radio's and hand-held TV's -
remember those?) is really to keep the passengers in the dark about
external world events during the flight. You can keep better control of
the cattle - er I mean the passengers - if they don't know and get
worked up about what's happening elsewhere in the world.

But I love using my GPS while on flights. It tells me if we're going
into a holding pattern, or which runway we're lining up for, and gives
me a good ETA to know if I've got to hussle for my connecting flight. I
know what cities I'm passing over, and what actual route we're taking
(is it a straight line? Frequently - no it's not).
  #9  
Old October 22nd, 2011, 06:30 PM posted to rec.travel.air
Mxsmanic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,830
Default Using electronic devices during take-off and landing (was: CyberFlying???)

Fly Guy writes:

The embargo on electronic devices during take-off and landing is
bull****. We all know that prohibition is there to remove a possible
source of interference or lack-of-attention between the crew and
passengers in cases of emergency (which are more relavent during
taxi/takeoff/landing than during other phases of the flight).


No, it's not there for that reason. At one time, there was a real concern that
electronic gadgets could interfere with aircraft avionics, and for a brief
period in the distant pass, that was a possibility, although it's not a
problem today.

The prohibition against recieving devices (radio's and hand-held TV's -
remember those?) is really to keep the passengers in the dark about
external world events during the flight.


There is no regulation that prohibits receiving devices specifically.
  #10  
Old October 25th, 2011, 09:33 PM posted to rec.travel.air
Tom P[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 563
Default Using electronic devices during take-off and landing

On 10/22/2011 07:30 PM, Mxsmanic wrote:
Fly Guy writes:

The embargo on electronic devices during take-off and landing is
bull****. We all know that prohibition is there to remove a possible
source of interference or lack-of-attention between the crew and
passengers in cases of emergency (which are more relavent during
taxi/takeoff/landing than during other phases of the flight).


No, it's not there for that reason. At one time, there was a real concern that
electronic gadgets could interfere with aircraft avionics, and for a brief
period in the distant pass, that was a possibility, although it's not a
problem today.

The prohibition against recieving devices (radio's and hand-held TV's -
remember those?) is really to keep the passengers in the dark about
external world events during the flight.


There is no regulation that prohibits receiving devices specifically.


Try discussing that with the flight attendant.



 




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