If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#31
|
|||
|
|||
Trains vs Planes and Automobiles
On Sat, 3 Mar 2012 21:34:45 +0000 (UTC), Erilar
wrote: What's "enjoyable" is a matter of taste. Driving a car in heavy traffic in hot weather to go someplace jammed with tourists strikes me as the diametric opposite of "enjoyable"! Personally, I not only prefer trains in Europe, i visit it in late April/early May to avoid the mad crush. We're all different, of course, but I'm with you almost entirely on that issue. With rare exceptions, I visit Europe only in very early Spring or late Fall. March and November are common months for me. For example, I'm going to Rome this coming November. And sometimes I've gone to Italy in December/January. -- Ken Blake |
#32
|
|||
|
|||
Trains vs Planes and Automobiles
Ken Blake wrote:
On Sat, 3 Mar 2012 21:34:45 +0000 (UTC), Erilar wrote: What's "enjoyable" is a matter of taste. Driving a car in heavy traffic in hot weather to go someplace jammed with tourists strikes me as the diametric opposite of "enjoyable"! Personally, I not only prefer trains in Europe, i visit it in late April/early May to avoid the mad crush. We're all different, of course, but I'm with you almost entirely on that issue. With rare exceptions, I visit Europe only in very early Spring or late Fall. March and November are common months for me. For example, I'm going to Rome this coming November. And sometimes I've gone to Italy in December/January. When I first retired, I traveled in September/October, which is a lovely time to do so, but it's also a particularly lovely time at home, whike spring is much less so, so I changed my yearly trip to spring. -- Erilar, biblioholic medievalist with iPad |
#33
|
|||
|
|||
Trains vs Planes and Automobiles
Tom P wrote:
On 03/03/2012 10:34 PM, Erilar wrote: Tom wrote: On 03/03/2012 09:58 AM, bill wrote: (I may have clipped too many attributions) Summary - most people do not go by train for trips round Europe because they would rather spend their vacation time in a more enjoyable fashion. That conclusion is most certainly not supported by your evidence. You think so. Please elaborate. What's "enjoyable" is a matter of taste. Driving a car in heavy traffic in hot weather to go someplace jammed with tourists strikes me as the diametric opposite of "enjoyable"! Personally, I not only prefer trains in Europe, i visit it in late April/early May to avoid the mad crush. That might be so in your case, but numbers speak for themselves - the majority prefers to go to the beach. And not by train. You might also consider that not everyone can pick and choose when they go on vacation. Families have children that are legally obliged to attend school and can only travel during school breaks. Quite apart from which, how many kids would enjoy the prospect of traveling round from one city to another by train when they could be on the beach? How about children who have never been to Europe before? Not everyone lives there. And traveling by train can be an adventure for children on their first foreign trip who have always traveled by car. My daughter and I spent a month in Germany with her children who were then 10 and 14, staying primarily in family rooms in youth hostels, not lying around on beaches, which they could do at home. -- Erilar, biblioholic medievalist with iPad |
#34
|
|||
|
|||
Trains vs Planes and Automobiles
4.3.2012 0:07, Tom P kirjoitti:
On 03/03/2012 10:34 PM, Erilar wrote: Tom wrote: On 03/03/2012 09:58 AM, bill wrote: (I may have clipped too many attributions) Summary - most people do not go by train for trips round Europe because they would rather spend their vacation time in a more enjoyable fashion. That conclusion is most certainly not supported by your evidence. You think so. Please elaborate. What's "enjoyable" is a matter of taste. Driving a car in heavy traffic in hot weather to go someplace jammed with tourists strikes me as the diametric opposite of "enjoyable"! Personally, I not only prefer trains in Europe, i visit it in late April/early May to avoid the mad crush. That might be so in your case, but numbers speak for themselves - the majority prefers to go to the beach. And not by train. You might also consider that not everyone can pick and choose when they go on vacation. Families have children that are legally obliged to attend school and can only travel during school breaks. Quite apart from which, how many kids would enjoy the prospect of traveling round from one city to another by train when they could be on the beach? For instance I tend to have a summer holiday lasting five weeks. Surely I don't want to spend too much of my precious time on beaches. When I visit a beach under the burning sunshine, I seek a seat in shade, have a cup of coffee and read a daily and then leave the beach. A car is most flexible in many cases. Often the only means to achieve a destination smoothly and without wasting time unnecessarily. Motorists can also save some money when they seek accommodation in countryside as a bonus they get a peaceful and *quiet* place to rest their worn down bones (no, I am not talking about camping sites which are for masochists only). We Europeans can visit other parts of the continent by our own cars. I have done this several times. You can leave home when you want (in the frame of your leisure time, of course) and you can return home just as you want. As a Finn I better reserve a ticket for the car for ferry rides between Finland and Sweden/Germany). That's about all for necessary planning. Insurance fully works as it does at home (excess is slightly higher outside the Nordic countries). You can also carry material (mostly unnecessarily) much more than in the case you carry a rucksack and get a sore back. However, it isn't a superior way to explore Europe. Only one way. The same applies to buses, trains and aeroplanes. One can use all these modes of transportation during a holiday. For instance I could drive from Finland through Sweden and Denmark in good pace and still have a peek on many interesting places en route. After spending some time in Northern Germany I arrive in the Lederhosen country and start sipping Bavarian weisbier. I develop this feeling that for Germany this is it for some time now I have a week to loiter around before I start a march back home. I leave the car in Munich and fly to Madrid. I will make one day excursion from town to Toledo - by train I think. After a few days of filling the belly by tapas I will once more replace myself efficiently and quickly to Florence Tuscany. After the expensive tickets to the world recognized museums and ridiculously priced coffee on the banks of Arno I shall reluctantly return to Munich and urge my pony to gallop in fury foam spilling out from his mouth. |
#35
|
|||
|
|||
Trains vs Planes and Automobiles
On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 09:47:38 +0200, Markku Gr?nroos
wrote: A car is most flexible in many cases. Often the only means to achieve a destination smoothly and without wasting time unnecessarily. That's certainly true in many cases, but in other cases, it can be a big problem. Parking can be a problem. Traffic can be a problem. Dealing with one-way streets can be a problem (I once drove a rental car into Rome to return it; I got within two or three blocks of the rental agency, but actually took another *hour* to figure out how to navigate the one-way streets and get there). In general driving in small towns can be much better than in big cities. And I also wanted to point another couple of reasons why driving in Europe can be a big problem for Americans. These are my own experiences: 1. Although I learned to drive on a stick shift, it's been years since I owned a car with one. So my skills driving that way are poor. And many younger Americans have never driven with a stick shift. It might be possible to rent a car with an automatic transmission, but they are harder to find, and usually *much* more expensive. 2. Driving in Europe can be a problem for Americans because we don't know the differences in laws, we don't know the differences in driving customs, and we can have trouble reading the traffic signs. So I've done this occasionally (in Italy and in France), but I'm always happiest when I don't have to and greatly prefer to take trains or buses when they meet my needs. -- Ken Blake |
#37
|
|||
|
|||
Trains vs Planes and Automobiles
On 02/03/2012 3:49 PM, Tom P wrote:
Travel by air basically reflects the nature of the travel - one third of Danish and UK residents fly to their destinations, compared with 10% of the French and Spanish. Of the remaining forms of travel, rail only amounts to a very small proportion - around 5% in most countries. Only France has a proportion significantly over 10% of rail travel. Also significant is the way the travel is organized. A high proportion of Swedes, Danes and Germans travel with organized package holidays. The vast majority of holiday travel takes place in summer. Finally and perhaps most significant, the Mediterranean remains the most popular destination for the majority of holidaymakers. Summary - most people do not go by train for trips round Europe because they would rather spend their vacation time in a more enjoyable fashion. I can't really agree with that. I would suggest that the Europeans who are accustomed to train travel may stick to rail because that is what they are used to. Air travel tends to be faster if you are going long distances.Time back and forth to the airport and waiting time often adds up to more time than the flight takes. If there are several people travelling together it is usually cheaper to take a car than to pay multiple fares. North American tourists are not likely to consider train as a viable mode of transport. Rail travel in Canada in the US is mediocre at best. It services only a few corridor routes and at inconvenient hours. They might also be concerned about language issues. Most Europeans tend to my multilingual while North Americans tend to be speak only on language and find it intimidating to have to deal in other languages. They may nor realize that in this day and age it is not difficult to find services in English. Then there is the choice between spending time and money to get somewhere and having the opportunity to enjoy that spot or to spend your time waiting for transport, the time spent travelling, the extra cost of that travel and travel to and from the station. Some people don't seem to mind acting like what I think of as the Japanese tourist.... hop on a bus, travel for hours, get out and take a picture, then back on the bus and head to the next destination. You have to stick to a tight schedule and you have to squeeze as many photo ops into the trip as possible, and not time to actually enjoy them. |
#38
|
|||
|
|||
Trains vs Planes and Automobiles
4.3.2012 20:19, Dave Smith kirjoitti:
On 02/03/2012 3:49 PM, Tom P wrote: I can't really agree with that. I would suggest that the Europeans who are accustomed to train travel may stick to rail because that is what they are used to. Air travel tends to be faster if you are going long distances.Time back and forth to the airport and waiting time often adds up to more time than the flight takes. If there are several people travelling together it is usually cheaper to take a car than to pay multiple fares. Many tourists like me are fundamentally vagabonds. There are not necessarily so many primary destinations which are regarded much more important over the others. We want to be on the road. It is one essential dimension of travelling really. When we are travelling between points A and B, there are also sites like C,D, E... in between the two points which are also worth a visit. Tramps (in sense of tourism) tend to spend more than two weeks to complete their journey. Some of us return home after a few months or years. I cannot afford that and more importantly after a month or so home sickness takes over. |
#39
|
|||
|
|||
Trains vs Planes and Automobiles
On 04/03/2012 2:06 PM, Markku Grönroos wrote:
I can't really agree with that. I would suggest that the Europeans who are accustomed to train travel may stick to rail because that is what they are used to. Air travel tends to be faster if you are going long distances.Time back and forth to the airport and waiting time often adds up to more time than the flight takes. If there are several people travelling together it is usually cheaper to take a car than to pay multiple fares. Many tourists like me are fundamentally vagabonds. There are not necessarily so many primary destinations which are regarded much more important over the others. We want to be on the road. It is one essential dimension of travelling really. When we are travelling between points A and B, there are also sites like C,D, E... in between the two points which are also worth a visit. Tramps (in sense of tourism) tend to spend more than two weeks to complete their journey. Some of us return home after a few months or years. I cannot afford that and more importantly after a month or so home sickness takes over. I like to wander around too, and when I discuss vacations with people they are often puzzled by my ability and comfort with travelling with almost no itinerary. When I went on a trip to Europe with two of my brothers and their wives about 10 years ago, one of them was calling almost every night to tell us about a hotel he had found and he wanted to book it. He wanted to know ahead of time where he would be sleeping each night. We eventually decided on an itinerary of destination cities only, and found hotels when we got there. The only exception was the first couple of nights for Denmark, where it is often difficult to find vacancies, and our last four nights in Paris. When I went back with my wife two years later we again booked a hotel in Copenhagen for a few days and one in Paris for the last few days. The rest of the time we wandered aimlessly. For instance, we stopped to visit Vimy Ridge in France, but it was cold and rainy, so we hopped in the car and drove until we found the sun. That was in Verdun. We had a great time, but I know lots of people who would never dream of doing that. |
#40
|
|||
|
|||
Trains vs Planes and Automobiles
On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 14:29:35 -0500, Dave Smith wrote:
On 04/03/2012 2:06 PM, Markku Grönroos wrote: I can't really agree with that. I would suggest that the Europeans who are accustomed to train travel may stick to rail because that is what they are used to. Air travel tends to be faster if you are going long distances.Time back and forth to the airport and waiting time often adds up to more time than the flight takes. If there are several people travelling together it is usually cheaper to take a car than to pay multiple fares. Many tourists like me are fundamentally vagabonds. There are not necessarily so many primary destinations which are regarded much more important over the others. We want to be on the road. It is one essential dimension of travelling really. When we are travelling between points A and B, there are also sites like C,D, E... in between the two points which are also worth a visit. Tramps (in sense of tourism) tend to spend more than two weeks to complete their journey. Some of us return home after a few months or years. I cannot afford that and more importantly after a month or so home sickness takes over. I like to wander around too, and when I discuss vacations with people they are often puzzled by my ability and comfort with travelling with almost no itinerary. When I went on a trip to Europe with two of my brothers and their wives about 10 years ago, one of them was calling almost every night to tell us about a hotel he had found and he wanted to book it. He wanted to know ahead of time where he would be sleeping each night. We eventually decided on an itinerary of destination cities only, and found hotels when we got there. The only exception was the first couple of nights for Denmark, where it is often difficult to find vacancies, and our last four nights in Paris. When I went back with my wife two years later we again booked a hotel in Copenhagen for a few days and one in Paris for the last few days. The rest of the time we wandered aimlessly. For instance, we stopped to visit Vimy Ridge in France, but it was cold and rainy, so we hopped in the car and drove until we found the sun. That was in Verdun. We had a great time, but I know lots of people who would never dream of doing that. How often did you end up sleeping in your car? Or in 'The Cockroach Inn'... I have spent a few nights sleeping on the benches in railway station waiting rooms, but not since I was 30... -- "Hopefully the fair wind will resume, or this may well take all day." Admiral Collingwood on being becalmed under the guns of six French ships- of-the-line at Trafalgar |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Opinions on trains and planes. | James Silverton[_2_] | USA & Canada | 162 | August 29th, 2008 03:43 PM |
Should governments eliminate a "global scourge" and outlaw automobiles? | PJ O'Donovan[_1_] | Europe | 58 | April 25th, 2007 06:38 AM |
Trains or Planes from Barcelona to Florence | MMM | Europe | 2 | October 30th, 2005 04:12 PM |
Cigarette Lighter Power Sources in Automobiles | Karen and Ken | Australia & New Zealand | 7 | January 28th, 2005 01:36 AM |