Seeking Advice, Please

"Graham Harrison" wrote in message
...

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 07:13:02 on
Thu,
21 May 2009, Graham Harrison
remarked:
US immigration will want to see a copy of the electronic ticket.

And don't forget to remind your friend about the ESTA scheme (they won't
get nagged about it by the airline if you've done the booking).

http://cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/id_visa/esta/

(Actually, if ESTA is working properly, that could potentially over-ride
the need for carrying the e-ticket because they can check with the
airline
that the traveller has the required return ticket, but things never seem
to be co-ordinated that sensibly).

Airlines sometimes want to see the e-ticket too. I find this is somewhat
random! As well as somewhat of a contradiction in terms.
--
Roland Perry

I had completed ESTA when I last entered the USA. He still asked for my
ticket (and the hotel confirmation as well!).

Now here's another point. Make sure that the name you book the ticket in
is the same as the name in the passport. You may know your friend as
"Bill" but his passport will almost certainly then say "William". You
may
also find that as part of the booking process you are asked for the
passport
number, place and date of issue. That was certainly the case when I used
to do this sort of thing for a friend coming from the USA to the UK.
And,
while I think about it, there was never an issue with the credit card when
I
used to do that.

As for staff asking for tickets I can remember my first flight with BA on
an
ET. Having had some involvement with the BA project team in rolling out
the use of ET to the UK trade I knew that the instruction to BA check in
staff at the time was not to ask for the ticket copy. Didn't stop him
asking for the ticket but when I pointed out it was an ET there was a
short
pause and then everything carried on without a hitch (and without any need
to present the ET). The critical issue is to identify the passenger and
flight. Provided that can be done it should not be necessary to present
the ET at check in. However, as I say, you MUST carry it with you for
immigration.

Thanks to all that replied. I wasn't aware of ESTA requirements but thanks
to this group I am now. Also, I will forward a copy of everything I receive
from the airline to my friend.

Thanks again.

On Thu, 21 May 2009 07:53:34 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

They would claim that it reduces fraud. I've never really understood
what kind of scammer would turn up at the airport having identified
himself sufficiently to satisfy Homeland Security, to use a ticket he'd
bought with a stolen card (and more than that, before the real
cardholder had reported the fraud, at which point the airline would
simply cancel the ticket).

Someone told me that because the cardholder is obtaining the
product/service that it doesn't properly count as Cardholder Not
Present, whereas if it's for a third party it does. Doesn't explain
why some airlines (e.g. all budget ones I've used) don't require it,
though.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Thu, 21 May 2009 13:49:50 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
wrote:

Now here's another point. Make sure that the name you book the ticket in
is the same as the name in the passport. You may know your friend as
"Bill" but his passport will almost certainly then say "William". You may
also find that as part of the booking process you are asked for the passport
number, place and date of issue.

I got asked for visa details when trying (and failing, as it just
wouldn't accept any of my cards, even though my bank said they weren't
even trying an authorisation) to book a flight with Kingfisher
Airlines in India. Having given up, I then (successfully) booked the
same flight through Opodo, and wasn't asked for any such details...

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

In message , at 20:14:54 on Mon,
25 May 2009, Neil Williams remarked:

They would claim that it reduces fraud. I've never really understood
what kind of scammer would turn up at the airport having identified
himself sufficiently to satisfy Homeland Security, to use a ticket he'd
bought with a stolen card (and more than that, before the real
cardholder had reported the fraud, at which point the airline would
simply cancel the ticket).

Someone told me that because the cardholder is obtaining the
product/service that it doesn't properly count as Cardholder Not
Present, whereas if it's for a third party it does.

Even if this were true (and I have my doubts) all it means is a slight
shift in the liability towards the airline. But as they cancelled the
ticket as soon as they learnt it was a fraudulent transaction, what's
the problem?

Doesn't explain why some airlines (e.g. all budget ones I've used)
don't require it, though.

Presumably because they are more grown up and realise it's a waste of
everyone's time?
--
Roland Perry

In message Roland Perry
was claimed to have wrote:

Even if this were true (and I have my doubts) all it means is a slight
shift in the liability towards the airline. But as they cancelled the
ticket as soon as they learnt it was a fraudulent transaction, what's
the problem?

Better yet, don't cancel anything, just arrest whoever shows up to use
the tickets.

The holy grail of credit card fraud is being able to know exactly where
the fraudster will be at a specific point in time.

In message , at 10:45:52 on
Tue, 26 May 2009, DevilsPGD remarked:

Even if this were true (and I have my doubts) all it means is a slight
shift in the liability towards the airline. But as they cancelled the
ticket as soon as they learnt it was a fraudulent transaction, what's
the problem?

Better yet, don't cancel anything, just arrest whoever shows up to use
the tickets.

That's presumably the reasoning behind the recent "Watchdog" story about
Easyjet cancelling tickets where they [mistakenly] claim a fraudulent
card has been used, and failing to inform the customer until they turn
up at the airport.

The funny thing is, none of these reports involve the person being
arrested - merely told they've been bumped off the flight, that they
can't get a refund, and if they are lucky there might be a seat at the
vastly increased price "on the day".

What I can't work out is why these cases have got as far as Watchdog,
because it seems like an open and shut case against the airline.

The holy grail of credit card fraud is being able to know exactly where
the fraudster will be at a specific point in time.

You'd have thought so - but what kind of dumb crook actually turns up
(rather than trying to get a refund remotely, and obviously laundering
it in some way so it isn't simply put back into the original card
account)?
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 10:45:52 on
Tue, 26 May 2009, DevilsPGD remarked:

Even if this were true (and I have my doubts) all it means is a slight
shift in the liability towards the airline. But as they cancelled the
ticket as soon as they learnt it was a fraudulent transaction, what's
the problem?

Better yet, don't cancel anything, just arrest whoever shows up to use
the tickets.

That's presumably the reasoning behind the recent "Watchdog" story about
Easyjet cancelling tickets where they [mistakenly] claim a fraudulent card
has been used, and failing to inform the customer until they turn up at
the airport.

The funny thing is, none of these reports involve the person being
arrested - merely told they've been bumped off the flight, that they can't
get a refund, and if they are lucky there might be a seat at the vastly
increased price "on the day".

What I can't work out is why these cases have got as far as Watchdog,
because it seems like an open and shut case against the airline.

The holy grail of credit card fraud is being able to know exactly where
the fraudster will be at a specific point in time.

You'd have thought so - but what kind of dumb crook actually turns up
(rather than trying to get a refund remotely, and obviously laundering it
in some way so it isn't simply put back into the original card account)?
--
Roland Perry

In cases such as this what seems to happen is that someone offers cheap
tickets (as we all know, even easyJet tickets get expensive at times). The
passenger pays the intermediary and the intermediary pays the airline using
the fraudulent card.

In message , at 09:33:10 on
Wed, 27 May 2009, Graham Harrison
remarked:
In cases such as this what seems to happen is that someone offers cheap
tickets (as we all know, even easyJet tickets get expensive at times).
The passenger pays the intermediary and the intermediary pays the
airline using the fraudulent card.

I can understand why there is greater risk when the ticket is paid for
by a third party - but when the Credit Card is in the same name as the
passenger, why are Easyjet cancelling those tickets too?

(Of course, we should also be asking where the false "card declined"
messages are coming from. I have experienced this several times
recently, but for flights/train-tickete at the time of ordering so I
simply used a different card; but one long-standing CC monthly charge
was falsely bumped[1], and a phone company cut me off!)

[1] Phone company says it was declined, Card Company say they were (a)
never asked and (b) have in any event never declined any transaction on
that card.
--
Roland Perry

In message Roland Perry
was claimed to have wrote:

In message , at 09:33:10 on
Wed, 27 May 2009, Graham Harrison
remarked:
In cases such as this what seems to happen is that someone offers cheap
tickets (as we all know, even easyJet tickets get expensive at times).
The passenger pays the intermediary and the intermediary pays the
airline using the fraudulent card.

I can understand why there is greater risk when the ticket is paid for
by a third party - but when the Credit Card is in the same name as the
passenger, why are Easyjet cancelling those tickets too?

My guess? It's more profitable to see who shows up at the airport then
attempt to bill them higher rates (and otherwise resell the seat) then
to attempt to contact people and identify whether a transaction is
fraudulent or not.

(Of course, we should also be asking where the false "card declined"
messages are coming from. I have experienced this several times
recently, but for flights/train-tickete at the time of ordering so I
simply used a different card; but one long-standing CC monthly charge
was falsely bumped[1], and a phone company cut me off!)

[1] Phone company says it was declined, Card Company say they were (a)
never asked and (b) have in any event never declined any transaction on
that card.

"Card Declined" is sometimes used as a catch-all for other errors, or
where the merchant account's fraud system detected something suspicious
and declined the transaction (although not the specific card) before
even talking to the issuing bank.

Unfortunately, it's not in a company's best interests to return the
exact error message received, doing so actually encourages fraudsters to
use said company's services to validate credit cards. For example, if I
have a credit card number, name, billing address, phone number and CVV2
but know that one piece of information is wrong, a merchant that will
tell me which piece if wrong is invaluable.